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[Build Log] Merlin (Water Cooled r-atx SM8 w/dual Pedestals / Z97X-UD5H) - Page 24

post #231 of 2434
Thread Starter 
Little break down action. Got the fans rewired with new harnesses today.


I taped a piece of filter material over the back of the pedestal after I assembled everything. The bulk of the air intake is through those holes. I will work on a more permanent solution later.

The fan wires are secured to the sides of the pedestal with 1/2" cable clamps, and after the pic I did the same with the harnesses.

Ran out of light after assembly so no more pics right now.
post #232 of 2434
So you have both rads set up as push pull and both exhausting out their respective side of the pedestal . . . .

That's 8 fan sets with a cumulative cross sectional area of about 90500 mmsq drawing air from a plenum about 30mm wide by 200mm hi with a cross sectional area of 6000 mmsq, fed from each end with a hole of less than 12000 mmsq cross sectional area.

Figuring you can feed air from both ends, that's 45250 mmsq of fan pulling from each ends plenum cross section of 6000 mmsq fed thru a hole with ~11000 mmsq.


I'm not getting the rationale here thinking.gif


Darlene
Edited by IT Diva - 11/6/12 at 5:37pm
post #233 of 2434
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva View Post

So you have both rads set up as push pull and both exhausting out their respective side of the pedestal . . . .
That's 8 fan sets with a cumulative cross sectional area of about 90500 mmsq drawing air from a plenum about 30mm wide by 200mm hi with a cross sectional area of 6000 mmsq, fed from each end with a hole of less than 12000 mmsq cross sectional area.
Figuring you can feed air from both ends, that's 45250 mmsq of fan pulling from each ends plenum cross section of 6000 mmsq fed thru a hole with ~11000 mmsq.
I'm not getting the rationale here thinking.gif
Darlene
That's because you are over thinking it, Darlene. Real world vs theoretical. But you don't have all the facts.
In reality nothing here is air tight, and some air from the case gets pulled in as well. But the case is set up with 4 fans intake and 1 exhaust. The two lower fans are filtered, and the top two will be soon, although in my experience closer to the carpet/floor pulls in the most dust, pet hair, etc.
I have more than enough cooling capacity, and running like this gives me more options for dust control, which is a major problem here. Besides the fans don't need to run wide open to cool this rig efficiently.
With the fans kept to a level as to be fairly quiet, very little more cooling can be had from boosting the fans wide open. I have run P95 for a period of time with my "normal" settings and with the fans wide open and there is very little difference.

I submit there is a method to my madness. But forget all the above and consider this:
In the short time this rig has been up, when I pulled it down yesterday I was shocked to see how clogged with dust the radiators were. I was on the fence about flipping the fans but this solidified my thinking.

So I look at it like this: I could have a dragster running no air filter and maybe leave 10 HP on the table, or I can have some air filtration and not degrade the engine so quickly.

But thanks for keeping it interesting. Always glad to have your input. smile.gif
post #234 of 2434
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandrix View Post

That's because you are over thinking it, Darlene. Real world vs theoretical. But you don't have all the facts.
In reality nothing here is air tight, and some air from the case gets pulled in as well. But the case is set up with 4 fans intake and 1 exhaust. The two lower fans are filtered, and the top two will be soon, although in my experience closer to the carpet/floor pulls in the most dust, pet hair, etc.
I have more than enough cooling capacity, and running like this gives me more options for dust control, which is a major problem here. Besides the fans don't need to run wide open to cool this rig efficiently.
With the fans kept to a level as to be fairly quiet, very little more cooling can be had from boosting the fans wide open. I have run P95 for a period of time with my "normal" settings and with the fans wide open and there is very little difference.
I submit there is a method to my madness. But forget all the above and consider this:
In the short time this rig has been up, when I pulled it down yesterday I was shocked to see how clogged with dust the radiators were. I was on the fence about flipping the fans but this solidified my thinking.
So I look at it like this: I could have a dragster running no air filter and maybe leave 10 HP on the table, or I can have some air filtration and not degrade the engine so quickly.
But thanks for keeping it interesting. Always glad to have your input. smile.gif


That's all I was looking for, was the rationale, and I agree, given the facts as you state them, you're on the right track. thumb.gif



Darlene
post #235 of 2434
I'm confused redface.gif

Darlene posts about the physics of the pedestal air flow, and Mandrix replies with a tale of the case air flow, with a passing reference to the pedestal's rads dust accumulation .... ?

"I was shocked to see how clogged with dust the radiators were. I was on the fence about flipping the fans but this solidified my thinking."

What would you have done if you had followed thru ? flipped the fans so that all pedestal fans exhaust to one side ? If there's an interaction between case and pedestal involving air flow, its not obvious.
Just curious as to what thinking has been solidified.

Fairly interesting lab experiment going on here, that's the reason for my interest. Also, I could never get used to a Merlin SM8 case with a pedestal sitting on a desktop, but at this point in time, I prefer a desktop sitting PC, so I understand the compromise of PC situating - I just wouldn't do it myself, it would have to be no ped unless there's a platform on floor, if that would help. Yes, closely shaved hair and no pets are the rules in my house rolleyes.gif
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post #236 of 2434
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socketus, I don't know what to tell you if you don't understand what I said in the post above.

The fans in the pedestal have been exhausting to one side all along. I just changed it to exhaust to both sides. Darlene was stating that she thought there would not be a good flow path for air intake into the pedestal with the new fan setup, and I explained why I disagree.

The computer is not on a desk, it's on castors on the floor. Never has been on a desk or anything else except the floor. I had discussed doing that, and that was the original thinking behind exhausting the pedestal fans to one side. Go back around page six or somewhere thereabouts and you will see where I discussed the computer being on the floor. smile.gif



Anyway moving on, after discovering the true purpose of the tach header on the AQ5, which is to actually produce an rpm signal, I now have fabbed a cable with 3 pin female fan connectors on either end and now have it connected to the tach header on the AQ5 & motherboard cpu fan header. Likewise in the BIOS I have it set to react if the fan header fails to see a signal. So it is functioning as intended with an rpm of >3400 showing up.

Been sleeving some of the premade cables such as the Aquabus cable & the flow sensor cable. Started modifying my SATA power cable to the DVD to also pick up the power on one of the HDD's , as well as resleeving it. When I finish I will make a new SATA power cable for the remaining drives. I just was not happy with the original cable I made that had to make many twists and turns to pick up power to all the drives, and I think the two cable solution will be better.

Now have another blue led and G 1/4 led insert for the res for a total of two, and some different led's for the Raystorm bracket. Not installed yet, though.
So I need to fab the revised SATA Power cable and work on sleeving various cables like USB, etc.

I pulled a newbie numbskull mistake and somehow swapped two leads on the flow sensor wire when sleeving it. End result=no flow monitoring for now. Ordered new flow sensor and downloaded picture of the flow sensor cable that clearly shows the wire colors and where they are connected.
Stupid mistake after making up all the psu wiring from scratch to be brought low by a prefabbed cable. CRS raises it's ugly head again.
post #237 of 2434
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandrix View Post

socketus, I don't know what to tell you if you don't understand what I said in the post above.
The fans in the pedestal have been exhausting to one side all along. I just changed it to exhaust to both sides. Darlene was stating that she thought there would not be a good flow path for air intake into the pedestal with the new fan setup, and I explained why I disagree.
The computer is not on a desk, it's on castors on the floor. Never has been on a desk or anything else except the floor. I had discussed doing that, and that was the original thinking behind exhausting the pedestal fans to one side. Go back around page six or somewhere thereabouts and you will see where I discussed the computer being on the floor. smile.gif

It wasn't clear to me that you had just flipped the fans. And my reference to desktop was about my own preference. GL with that rig thumb.gif
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post #238 of 2434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socketus View Post

It wasn't clear to me that you had just flipped the fans. And my reference to desktop was about my own preference. GL with that rig thumb.gif
You are right, I thought I had said more about the fan setup earlier but I guess I was wrong. redface.gif My apologies! CRS.Can't Remember Stuff.
Call me out when it seems I go off in left field because I forget what I have or haven't posted.

It would be a lot for a desktop (height) with a pedestal mounted, for sure. I'm glad now I went with the casters, it's so easy to move around and makes it really easy to work on. On carpet it's not quite as stable as I would like, I guess because it's tall and not real wide? I asked Kevin if the platform they have would fit the SM8 and he said no. No telling when/if they will build one, or anything else for the SM8, they seem to have moved on to other things.
I have considered building a platform but it's not been a high priority.
post #239 of 2434
Well, this is getting to be quite the dirty little secret. Here I sit with a barely started Azza w/c build, and I'm seeing more pix and text about the radiator dust accumulation. That never occurred to me, especially when you're viewing some of the pc Pron wink.gif If your case has been running so little, I'm guessing, in such a short time, for the amount of dust to shock you, then it becomes apparent that the location and sheer number of fans and expanses of radiator surface combine into a sort of Transformer like dust magnet biggrin.gif

Seriously, the higher up off the floor, the better. And I took a look at that platform for the SMH10 - that would be perfect, and also would contribute mightily to the stability of that now over 29" tall case.

How hard could it be to get a platform made ? Looks to be more than I would want to get involved with, tho I have a car buddy who's got all the gear, torch, shop - just need the aluminiUM ... hehe
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post #240 of 2434
Thread Starter 
I had an idea for something simple a while back. Instead of a full blown platform I thought about just getting some angle or box tubing and stretching out the casters further apart. But that is for stability, not for height. I agree, though, if I had welding equipment I could make something pretty easy. I worked in a machine shop for 4 or 5 years, mostly repairs and fabrication but a little of everything really. My Father welded all his life and I guess some of it rubbed off on me.
Now I'm pretty limited to whatever a drill press, jigsaw and hammer will do when it comes to metal.
But Merlin sits in the middle of the path to the bathroom and I keep thinking I will run over it some night. smile.gif I thought making it harder to push over when I'm half asleep in the dark might be a plus.
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