Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Monitors and Displays › I am confused about FPS and refresh rate.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

I am confused about FPS and refresh rate.

post #1 of 54
Thread Starter 
I have read a lot of articles on this and have seen a lot of discussions (which all turn into opinions) so if you guys could clarify this for me that would be most appreciated.

My rig is:
Intel Ivy Bridge 3570k Quad OC to 4.5GHz
Radeon 7950 OC to 1020clock
8gb ram skill ripjaw
ASUS Sabertooth Z77 motherboard
my monitor is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236049

So for most games I get 60+, some I get less (guild wars 2 on max with supersampling gets me to 50s in high populataed areas). My friend told me that since my monitor's refresh rate is 60hz I should be getting a steady 60fps to have a smooth performance. I almost never get a steady 60...at best I will get 59-63 moving around constantly, and this is with vsync on. Does this small deviation matter? and why do I need to hit a straight 60fps when the human eye can only tell the difference on stuff below 24fps.

Also what exactly is the benefit of a 120fps monitor? I have read people saying that it's "smoother" but frankly I can't tell anything is unsmooth unless I get under 20fps which never happens. And who in the world (unless you spend a ton of money for the small extra boost) can do steady 120fps on maxed out games?
post #2 of 54
Honestly if it doesnt matter you then it shouldnt matter. Here is my take on refresh rates

1) If you are happy with monitor performance you are good

2) the higher the refresh rate the smoother scenes look cause it can refresh as fast as your video card can put frames on the screen

3) Refresh rates are for the people that have the 3-500 dollars to spend on a monitor that come with that refresh rate
Stryker-PC
(17 items)
 
Homemade NAS
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
amd apu a6-5400k msi onboard corsair 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
western digital 2tb western digital 2tb hgst deskstar 3tb hgst deskstar 3tb 
Optical DriveOSMonitorPower
none nas4free hp logisys 480 
Case
logisys 
  hide details  
Reply
Stryker-PC
(17 items)
 
Homemade NAS
(13 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
amd apu a6-5400k msi onboard corsair 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
western digital 2tb western digital 2tb hgst deskstar 3tb hgst deskstar 3tb 
Optical DriveOSMonitorPower
none nas4free hp logisys 480 
Case
logisys 
  hide details  
Reply
post #3 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerocloud411 View Post

So for most games I get 60+, some I get less (guild wars 2 on max with supersampling gets me to 50s in high populataed areas). My friend told me that since my monitor's refresh rate is 60hz I should be getting a steady 60fps to have a smooth performance.

Having a 60hz monitor only means that your monitor can update 60 times in 1 second. Your computer is the limiting factor when it comes to FPS. If you are running a game/application that your computer simply cannot generate 60 frames you will not be seeing 60.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerocloud411 View Post

I almost never get a steady 60...at best I will get 59-63 moving around constantly, and this is with vsync on. Does this small deviation matter? and why do I need to hit a straight 60fps when the human eye can only tell the difference on stuff below 24fps.

There are a lot of different numbers being thrown around on the internet. The FPS for your game to 'feel smooth' is entirely dependent on the engine. Some run spectacularly well at 30FPS and others require 60+ to seem smooth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerocloud411 View Post

Also what exactly is the benefit of a 120fps monitor? I have read people saying that it's "smoother" but frankly I can't tell anything is unsmooth unless I get under 20fps which never happens. And who in the world (unless you spend a ton of money for the small extra boost) can do steady 120fps on maxed out games?

I have not tried a 120hz monitor but I've had friends suggest that they can tell the difference. I can't comment because I haven't seen it.



Personally I cannot stand Vsync. Having the extra buffer causes input lag and I'm simply not a fan.
Bye Bye 775
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.5GHz ASUS P8P67 PRO MSI GTX 660 Ti Power Edition  2x4gb Ripjaws@1866MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
840Pro 128 | 3xWD Vraptor | 1.5TB Green LG 6X Blu-ray /HD-DVD combo Win7 Ultimate 64bit 2 x U2311H 1920x1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G710+ Corsair HX620 Corsair 600t Logitech G500 
  hide details  
Reply
Bye Bye 775
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k @ 4.5GHz ASUS P8P67 PRO MSI GTX 660 Ti Power Edition  2x4gb Ripjaws@1866MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
840Pro 128 | 3xWD Vraptor | 1.5TB Green LG 6X Blu-ray /HD-DVD combo Win7 Ultimate 64bit 2 x U2311H 1920x1080 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech G710+ Corsair HX620 Corsair 600t Logitech G500 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 54
i can pretty tell the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz monitor. it's a lot smoother on 120. although 60Hz is enough already for most people.
A-600
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-3570K @ 4.5GHz (1.28v) ASUS P8Z77-V Palit GTX 770 Jetstream @ 1320/2000MHz 8GB Kingston HyperX Fury Black 1866MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOptical DriveCooling
1TB WDC Blue, 500GB Hitachi Lite-On iHAS124 Sony VRDVC20 Thermaltake Contac 29 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Windows XP Pro x86 BenQ GW2450, XL2420T Ducky Zero DK2108S Cherry MX Brown NZXT HALE82 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec Six Hundred SE Logitech G400 V2 SteelSeries QcK Audio Gearz 
  hide details  
Reply
A-600
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-3570K @ 4.5GHz (1.28v) ASUS P8Z77-V Palit GTX 770 Jetstream @ 1320/2000MHz 8GB Kingston HyperX Fury Black 1866MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOptical DriveCooling
1TB WDC Blue, 500GB Hitachi Lite-On iHAS124 Sony VRDVC20 Thermaltake Contac 29 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Windows XP Pro x86 BenQ GW2450, XL2420T Ducky Zero DK2108S Cherry MX Brown NZXT HALE82 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec Six Hundred SE Logitech G400 V2 SteelSeries QcK Audio Gearz 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 54
If you are averaging around 60fps, with frequent numberes in the 50fps range - then i would turn VSYNC OFF. The way vsync works is that to ensure no screen tearing is that it steps down the fps to a multiple of your refresh rate. So more often than not youll be jumping beween 60 <-> 30fps as your fps dips to the 50fps mark

I posted a blurb about it here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1311765/will-this-damage-my-monitor/10#post_18273072

i *believe* all VSYNC works this way, not just Nvidia (which they try to fix with "adaptive vsync")

try turning off vsync and see if it seems smoother for you - there is also a tool that can measure microstutter here http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1635193 so you can give that a whirl

Again - only do this if you see stuttering ..if you dont, then i wouldnt go looking for it

Also - Human eyes can definately see more than 24fps, in movies it looks fluid because of motion blur makes you perceive fluidity. Not sure what the upper limit is..but probably approaching 200fps
post #6 of 54
Thread Starter 
Ok so Unless my fps is heavily above 60 I should not be using vsync? Also should I use framelimit? And as I've said I honestly cannot tell the difference between 30-120fps, it all looks exactly the same and "smoothness" is completely fine, only time it's not smooth is if my connection lags. So I guess my question is, is 50fps bad for a 60monitor since its not in sync? and would it look better if i turned off supersampling and my fps went up to the 60s-70s or would it look better if i kept supersampling on at 50s fps? Thanks for your time
post #7 of 54
If its above 60 consistently - then yes use it, vsync will cap it at 60 to avaoid tearing. But if its around 60 with frequent dips to 50, or even averaging just below 60, then i would personally turn it off. In the cases that it goes above 60 yes you might get screen tear - but you wont get stutter and input lag will be better.

Id like other ppls opinion on this - but maybe ill try this experiment at home later

1) framelimit at 31fps - vsync on (just chose 31 incase it gets stepped down to 20fps if it happens to be 29fps)
vs
2) framelimit at 55fps - vsync on

And see if you can notice a difference..if they feel the same..then the gpu is stepping the fps to 30fps
post #8 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerocloud411 View Post

Ok so Unless my fps is heavily above 60 I should not be using vsync? Also should I use framelimit? And as I've said I honestly cannot tell the difference between 30-120fps, it all looks exactly the same and "smoothness" is completely fine, only time it's not smooth is if my connection lags. So I guess my question is, is 50fps bad for a 60monitor since its not in sync? and would it look better if i turned off supersampling and my fps went up to the 60s-70s or would it look better if i kept supersampling on at 50s fps? Thanks for your time

No difference between 30 @ 120fps. Wow. Have you even seen 120FPS since your monitor can only support up to 60fps? The biggest difference noticeable with high framerates in in 1st Person & 3rd Person games. Starcraft type games not so much.

50fps is ok for a 60fps monitor, just keep vsync off. But also depends on the game and how your monitor handles it. Try both ways and the one that looks better to you, go with it.
VR
(13 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4930k on H2O Asus RIVE GTX 1080Ti Ripjaws 16GB 2133Mhz 
Hard DriveMonitorMonitorPower
[x2] Samsung 830 RAID0  VR- HTC VIVE  Acer Predator X34 3440x1440 100Hz Gsync EVGA Classified SR-2 1200w 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Fostex TH-900 Headphones Asus Xonar Essence One DAC Sennheiser HDVD800 Sennheiser HD800 
Audio
HiFiMan HE-5LE 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930K Asrock Extreme 11 x4 GTX Titan Quad SLI + EK Blocks Ripjaws Z 16gb 2133  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingMonitor
[x2] Samsung 830 SSD 128gb in Raid0 Samsung Spinpoint 2TB HDD D5 Pump, Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 480 + RX360 R... [x3] Qnix 2560x1440 120hz 
PowerAudioAudio
EVGA SR-2 1200w  Asus Xonar Essence One Amp/DAC Sennheiser HD800 Headphones 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 3930k Asus RIVE EVGA GTX 670 Quad SLI Ripjaws Z 16GB 2133 CL11 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingMonitor
[x2] SSD Samsung 830 126GB RAID0 Samsung Spinpoint 2TB XSPC Raystorm Block, RX360, D5 [x3] ASUS VG278H 27" 3D Monitors 
PowerCase
EVGA Classified SR-2 1200w CM HAF X 942 
  hide details  
Reply
VR
(13 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4930k on H2O Asus RIVE GTX 1080Ti Ripjaws 16GB 2133Mhz 
Hard DriveMonitorMonitorPower
[x2] Samsung 830 RAID0  VR- HTC VIVE  Acer Predator X34 3440x1440 100Hz Gsync EVGA Classified SR-2 1200w 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Fostex TH-900 Headphones Asus Xonar Essence One DAC Sennheiser HDVD800 Sennheiser HD800 
Audio
HiFiMan HE-5LE 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930K Asrock Extreme 11 x4 GTX Titan Quad SLI + EK Blocks Ripjaws Z 16gb 2133  
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingMonitor
[x2] Samsung 830 SSD 128gb in Raid0 Samsung Spinpoint 2TB HDD D5 Pump, Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 480 + RX360 R... [x3] Qnix 2560x1440 120hz 
PowerAudioAudio
EVGA SR-2 1200w  Asus Xonar Essence One Amp/DAC Sennheiser HD800 Headphones 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel I7 3930k Asus RIVE EVGA GTX 670 Quad SLI Ripjaws Z 16GB 2133 CL11 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingMonitor
[x2] SSD Samsung 830 126GB RAID0 Samsung Spinpoint 2TB XSPC Raystorm Block, RX360, D5 [x3] ASUS VG278H 27" 3D Monitors 
PowerCase
EVGA Classified SR-2 1200w CM HAF X 942 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerocloud411 View Post

And as I've said I honestly cannot tell the difference between 30-120fps, it all looks exactly the same and "smoothness" is completely fine
it's because your monitor is only at 60Hz that's why you can't see any difference even if you get above 60fps or 120fps. it will not look smooth as it should be like on a 120Hz screen.
A-600
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-3570K @ 4.5GHz (1.28v) ASUS P8Z77-V Palit GTX 770 Jetstream @ 1320/2000MHz 8GB Kingston HyperX Fury Black 1866MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOptical DriveCooling
1TB WDC Blue, 500GB Hitachi Lite-On iHAS124 Sony VRDVC20 Thermaltake Contac 29 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Windows XP Pro x86 BenQ GW2450, XL2420T Ducky Zero DK2108S Cherry MX Brown NZXT HALE82 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec Six Hundred SE Logitech G400 V2 SteelSeries QcK Audio Gearz 
  hide details  
Reply
A-600
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-3570K @ 4.5GHz (1.28v) ASUS P8Z77-V Palit GTX 770 Jetstream @ 1320/2000MHz 8GB Kingston HyperX Fury Black 1866MHz 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOptical DriveCooling
1TB WDC Blue, 500GB Hitachi Lite-On iHAS124 Sony VRDVC20 Thermaltake Contac 29 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate x64, Windows XP Pro x86 BenQ GW2450, XL2420T Ducky Zero DK2108S Cherry MX Brown NZXT HALE82 750W 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Antec Six Hundred SE Logitech G400 V2 SteelSeries QcK Audio Gearz 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 54
1) The 59-63 fps hovering is pretty normal. I personally get 59-61fps with vSync on, so I stopped using it. I find that the MSI Afterburner framerate limit works MUCH better.

2) The human eye can detect differences at far higher rates than 24hz (24fps). I know for the fact that you can still notice stuff at 120fps, and I'm pretty sure you'd still be able to notice stuff at 240fps. All you need is a video a few seconds long at your desired frame-rate, and ONE frame needs to be black (the rest white). If it really is undetectable, then the entire video will seem white. However, since the eye can detect it, that means we can see that rate, if not higher.

I even notice the difference between 60fps and 120fps on a 60hz monitor. Logically it makes no sense, but its there. It's like removing a lead weight from your game. It's much more smooth.

3) Getting 120fps isn't really that hard. Most games can get there on very little hardware (League of Legends gets 120fps+ on a 460m @ 1080p), while others can still hit that limit with two mid-range cards. Personally, the ONLY game I dont get 120fps in is Metro 2033. Everything else is capped at 120fps. Yes, that means turning down/off AA in some games (BF3, ARMA2), but it's worth it.
Base2
(21 items)
 
Edi
(13 items)
 
Zenbook
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 2600k @ 4.75ghz @ 1.352v Asus p8p67 Deluxe Asus GTX 970 Strix ADATA XPG1 (2x8gb) @ 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
2x OCZ Agility 3  2x Toshiba 2tb Sata 3 OCZ Vertex 2 Seagate Barracuda 500gb 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG Blu-Ray-RW  Corsair H70 3x Corsair AF 120 Silent Edition 2x AF 140 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 x64 Home Premium Asus VG248QE Asus VG248QE Ducky Shine 3 (MX Black) 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair AX 1200 Corsair 450D Razer Deathadder 2013 Creative X-FI Titanium HD 
Other
Sennheiser PC 350 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Core i7 740QM GTX 460m 2x 4gb DDR3 OCZ Agility 3 
OSMonitor
Windows 7 x64 15.1" (1920x1080) 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Core i3 2367M Intel HD 3000 4GB DDR3 Hitachi HDD 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
SanDisk SSD Windows 7 Home Premium x64 13.3" 1366x768 
  hide details  
Reply
Base2
(21 items)
 
Edi
(13 items)
 
Zenbook
(7 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 2600k @ 4.75ghz @ 1.352v Asus p8p67 Deluxe Asus GTX 970 Strix ADATA XPG1 (2x8gb) @ 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
2x OCZ Agility 3  2x Toshiba 2tb Sata 3 OCZ Vertex 2 Seagate Barracuda 500gb 
Optical DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
LG Blu-Ray-RW  Corsair H70 3x Corsair AF 120 Silent Edition 2x AF 140 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Windows 7 x64 Home Premium Asus VG248QE Asus VG248QE Ducky Shine 3 (MX Black) 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Corsair AX 1200 Corsair 450D Razer Deathadder 2013 Creative X-FI Titanium HD 
Other
Sennheiser PC 350 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Core i7 740QM GTX 460m 2x 4gb DDR3 OCZ Agility 3 
OSMonitor
Windows 7 x64 15.1" (1920x1080) 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Core i3 2367M Intel HD 3000 4GB DDR3 Hitachi HDD 
Hard DriveOSMonitor
SanDisk SSD Windows 7 Home Premium x64 13.3" 1366x768 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Monitors and Displays
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Monitors and Displays › I am confused about FPS and refresh rate.