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On the hunt for the perfect mouse - Page 3

post #21 of 33
Maybe the PCB is different because of the Size. but idk.

Edit:

Youre sure it was the Azurues and not the Saphira, never heard about non Angle Snapping 3080 Firmwares.
Edited by woll3 - 10/6/12 at 3:00pm
post #22 of 33
Thread Starter 
I have narrowed it down to the Roccat Savu and the Logitech G400. I will definitely be keeping an eye on the Ninox Aurora, but it seems to be at least a few months away.
post #23 of 33
The deathadder has negative acceleration? Have you tried flashing the firmware? I get none that I can detect on mine.

The Roccat savu looks like a good mouse for anyone doing low sensitivity. It has no acceleration, jitter or prediction, and it is good for fingertip grip. I'm not sure what switches it uses, though.
 
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post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

The Roccat savu looks like a good mouse for anyone doing low sensitivity. It has no acceleration, jitter or prediction, and it is good for fingertip grip. I'm not sure what switches it uses, though.

It depends on the Pad, dont know if mine is faulty but it skips quite early on Goliathus Speed and QCK, Switches fell like D2FC-F-7N.
post #25 of 33
Thread Starter 
So apparently the g400 weighs only 105g (not including the cable). This new information has made my decision very easy biggrin.gif

Thanks for all the replies.
post #26 of 33
The G400 has a screwed up lens and/or LED combo which makes it jitter like a muffled abyssus. No thanks.
post #27 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by glockateer View Post

The G400 has a screwed up lens and/or LED combo which makes it jitter like a muffled abyssus. No thanks.
That's odd...I've been searching all over the web for info on this mouse for almost the entire day and have yet to find something like this, except for a jitter caused by the software (which has since been fixed) as described in the following review: http://www.overclock.net/t/1054231/my-logitech-g400-review
Edited by MeatFlute - 10/6/12 at 4:31pm
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatFlute View Post

So apparently the g400 weighs only 105g (not including the cable). This new information has made my decision very easy biggrin.gif
Thanks for all the replies.
Really? It is 133g according to the logitech, IIRC. Also, it has a ridge on the right side that makes it a little uncomfortable to fingertip grip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glockateer View Post

The G400 has a screwed up lens and/or LED combo which makes it jitter like a muffled abyssus. No thanks.
No, it has an UPDATED, not screwed up, lens, which doesn't cause it to jitter. It may appear to jitter more than it should at DPI over 800, as the sensor uses twice the listed DPI on half sensitivity or something like that.

I own one, it has significantly less jitter than a deathadder.
 
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post #29 of 33
Thread Starter 
Here's an explanation of why the software originally caused jitter by a Logitech rep: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The G400's sensor has two "native" DPI settings - 800 and 3600. 400 and 1800 are achieved by throwing half the counts away from these values before the data is sent over USB. This is exactly the same way that the MX518 worked, except that there was no 3600 native setting - the maximum was 1800.

LGS does not introduce "jitter" (the appropriate term is "ripple" - jitter is when the cursor moves with no physical input), and the observed behavior is not the result of an attempt to work around angle snapping. The ripple behavior is from the sensor of the mouse being pushed to its limit, and the ripple effect may be more pronounced on some textured surfaces.

At 3600 DPI, the sensor is much more sensitive to patterns (regular or irregular) in the surface than it is at 800 DPI. It is also more sensitive than the MX518 at 1800 DPI. This is why at 3600 DPI on a table with a high-contrast wood grain you can see a lot of skipping around.

The way 8.01 and below worked was to set the mouse's internal DPI value to 3600 and downscale from there. There was, obviously, a visible side effect that resulted from this. Since the 3600 DPI setting produces more visible ripple during tracking than the lower 800 DPI setting, particularly on patterned surfaces, taking that input and throwing counts away from it results in behavior with LGS running that is different from the behavior without.

As of 8.12, we are setting the DPI value of the mouse to the next highest value and downscaling from there. So if the value you want to set is 750, we downscale from 800. If it's 850, we downscale from 1800. This will mean that DPI settings above 800 will still not produce the same perfect lines that 800 and below produce. They will be closer to the lines that 1800 DPI produces. Below 400 DPI will be scaled from 400 DPI. And above 1800 DPI will look more like 3600 DPI.

There are many surfaces that are not optimal for optical sensors. One of the biggest downsides of optical sensors is that they are more surface-dependent than laser sensors. For best performance it is recommended to use a surface that is fairly uniform and does not have a lot of high-contrast lines/patterns or a glossy finish on it. A solid-color cloth pad is one of the more optimal surfaces to use for optical sensors. This is particularly true if you will be using the mouse at over 800 DPI, as the higher the resolution the more potential there is for the sensor to report erratically. 


I think this is how most mice handle non-native DPI? Anywho...I think I'm still torn between this and the Savu
Quote:
Really? It is 133g according to the logitech, IIRC. Also, it has a ridge on the right side that makes it a little uncomfortable to fingertip grip.

133g including the cable, 105 without.
Edited by MeatFlute - 10/6/12 at 5:31pm
post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatFlute View Post

Here's an explanation of why the software originally caused jitter by a Logitech rep: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The G400's sensor has two "native" DPI settings - 800 and 3600. 400 and 1800 are achieved by throwing half the counts away from these values before the data is sent over USB. This is exactly the same way that the MX518 worked, except that there was no 3600 native setting - the maximum was 1800.

LGS does not introduce "jitter" (the appropriate term is "ripple" - jitter is when the cursor moves with no physical input), and the observed behavior is not the result of an attempt to work around angle snapping. The ripple behavior is from the sensor of the mouse being pushed to its limit, and the ripple effect may be more pronounced on some textured surfaces.

At 3600 DPI, the sensor is much more sensitive to patterns (regular or irregular) in the surface than it is at 800 DPI. It is also more sensitive than the MX518 at 1800 DPI. This is why at 3600 DPI on a table with a high-contrast wood grain you can see a lot of skipping around.

The way 8.01 and below worked was to set the mouse's internal DPI value to 3600 and downscale from there. There was, obviously, a visible side effect that resulted from this. Since the 3600 DPI setting produces more visible ripple during tracking than the lower 800 DPI setting, particularly on patterned surfaces, taking that input and throwing counts away from it results in behavior with LGS running that is different from the behavior without.

As of 8.12, we are setting the DPI value of the mouse to the next highest value and downscaling from there. So if the value you want to set is 750, we downscale from 800. If it's 850, we downscale from 1800. This will mean that DPI settings above 800 will still not produce the same perfect lines that 800 and below produce. They will be closer to the lines that 1800 DPI produces. Below 400 DPI will be scaled from 400 DPI. And above 1800 DPI will look more like 3600 DPI.

There are many surfaces that are not optimal for optical sensors. One of the biggest downsides of optical sensors is that they are more surface-dependent than laser sensors. For best performance it is recommended to use a surface that is fairly uniform and does not have a lot of high-contrast lines/patterns or a glossy finish on it. A solid-color cloth pad is one of the more optimal surfaces to use for optical sensors. This is particularly true if you will be using the mouse at over 800 DPI, as the higher the resolution the more potential there is for the sensor to report erratically. 
I think this is how most mice handle non-native DPI? Anywho...I think I'm still torn between this and the Savu
133g including the cable, 105 without.
The Savu weighs 90 grams and is easier to finger grip. I've never used one so I don't know what the buttons are like.
The G400's buttons need about as much force as the DA (I am not at my computer right now so this is off of memory) and they are a lot more clicky than the deathadder's buttons.
The scroll wheel on the G400 isn't that good, which should also be a factor.

Edit: I am back at my computer now, and I can comfirm that the G400's mouse click is about as soft as the DA, but has less travel, so it is more clicky.
Edited by Art Vanelay - 10/7/12 at 3:01pm
 
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HTPC
(11 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-2600k Gigabyte G1 Sniper 3 GTX 480 SLI Patriot G2 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingCooling
Caviar Black 1TB Dvd writer Xigmatek Dark Knight II Hawk Edition. Alpenfohn K2 (when it arrives) 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 professional Acer G215H CM quickfire rapid with MX blues Corsair HX1000 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
NZXT phantom Zowie AM XFX warpad Sennheiser HD558 (no foam) 
Audio
Xonar DX 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i5-2400 Intel DH67BL GTX 550 ti Corsair Vengeance 8GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Intel 330 60GB stock Windows Samsung TV 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair CX430 Misc Antec micro ATX Razer Deathadder 
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