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[Tom's Hardware] Apple Considering Moving Macs Away From Intel Chips - Page 20

post #191 of 278

10/8/12 at 5:49pm

Ferrari8608
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I would actually support Apple if they moved toward HSA. I mean, they're an awful business with mediocre hardware right now, but that can change.

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post #192 of 278

10/8/12 at 5:56pm

Homeles
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferrari8608

I would actually support Apple if they moved toward HSA. I mean, they're an awful business with mediocre hardware right now, but that can change.

Same hardware everyone else is using, for the most part. And until I hear anything about HSA other than "x partner joined our alliance" or "HSA is the future!!!," I can't really endorse it. It'd be nice to see what an HSA part looks like, but AMD definitely isn't ready to show us yet.

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post #193 of 278

10/8/12 at 6:20pm

steelbom
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There's no way they will do this. I'm not sure what kind of reworking would need to be done if they switched to AMD CPUs, but if it's not much and app compatibility is maintained then it's possible they may go that route, though I hope not as Intel has better single threaded performance. Definitely don't see them ever switching to ARM, that would sacrifice compatibility with all existing apps for what... less power and better battery life? That would just be shockingly terrible fragmentation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brutuz

Apple have already made dual architecture executables previously, when both the Motorola 6800 series and PowerPC series Macs were still popular, it wouldn't be difficult for them to do that with x86 and ARM, most users wouldn't even realize.

But what about third party apps? Is Adobe really going to make an ARM version of Photoshop? Are Mac App Store developers really going to make ARM versions so that their apps can run on ARM Macs? I don't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeles

Right, but will AMD have that supply? GloFo sounds very confident in their upcoming processes, but Apple has a huge mouth to feed. I don't see Apple being the monster it is come this time next year, but they still move a lot of product. AMD is notorious for having supply issues, and Apple — out of anyone — is probably the most aware of that.

I could see it working in a few of their form factors (iMac loaded with Kaveri? Yes please.), but I highly doubt we will see AMD fully supplant Intel, if they're able to get their foot in the door at all.

Apple only sells 20 million Macs a quarter don't they? It shouldn't be that hard to keep up with.

post #194 of 278

10/8/12 at 6:24pm

Homeles
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Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbom

Apple only sells 20 million Macs a quarter don't they? It shouldn't be that hard to keep up with.

You've forgotten the number one rule of hardware: never underestimate AMD's ability to screw things up.

Quote:

Definitely don't see them ever switching to ARM, that would sacrifice compatibility with all existing apps for what

I don't believe that happened with the PowerPC > Intel transition.

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post #195 of 278

10/8/12 at 6:29pm

Blindrage606
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Homeles

I don't believe that happened with the PowerPC > Intel transition.

Sure it did. Also, its about backward compatibility.

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post #196 of 278

10/8/12 at 7:35pm

aleiro
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I guess history does repeat...

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post #197 of 278

10/8/12 at 7:39pm

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I still don't see it happening. ARM just isn't there yet when it comes to desktop power. And Apple doesn't half ass things, they wouldn't release an ARM MacBook Air and an x86-64 MacBook Pro, iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro. Just doesn't make sense. If ARM ever catches up to Intel/AMD, then maybe. But that day is not here.

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post #198 of 278

10/8/12 at 7:43pm

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Apple has demonstrated a willingness to throw backwards compatibility out the window if they see an compelling reason to.

In 2006 with the switch from IBM to Intel whole software libraries were rapidly depreciated. Sure there was the Rosetta emulator, but that was limited in scope and performance. In general, new applications were needed.

Also, this wasn't the first time Apple has successfully shifted to a totally different ISA; it was the third...6502 -> 68k -> PowerPC -> x86.

To say they won't be willing to do what they have done three times before, if the motivation is there, is silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubanresourceful

ARM just isn't there yet when it comes to desktop power.

No it not...yet.

But this transition isn't happening tomorrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cubanresourceful

And Apple doesn't half ass things, they wouldn't release an ARM MacBook Air and an x86-64 MacBook Pro, iMac, Mac Mini, and Mac Pro. Just doesn't make sense.

But an ARM tablet does?
Edited by Blameless - 10/8/12 at 7:46pm

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post #199 of 278

10/8/12 at 7:46pm

cubanresourceful

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Blameless

Apple has demonstrated a willingness to throw backwards compatibility out the window if they see an compelling reason to.
In 2006 with the switch from IBM to Intel whole software libraries were rapidly depreciated. Sure there was the Rosetta emulator, but that was limited in scope and performance. In general, new applications were needed.
Also, this wasn't the first time Apple has successfully shifted to a totally different ISA; it was the third...6502 -> 68k -> PowerPC -> x86.
To say they won't be willing to do what they have done three times before, if the motivation is there, is silly.

Thing is, they would most likely have to move all their product lines to ARM, which is silly. At least going from 6502-68k-PPC-x86 were increases in speed, efficiency, among other enhancements (everybody else was on x86). While ARM is awesome on mobile devices, and would be great on an MBA, I don't see them fragmenting their desktop OS like that. Do I believe that they'll one day go ARM? Sure, when it's comparable to Intel's mobile offerings, seeing how then the codebase between the desktop and mobile OS's will be similar.

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post #200 of 278

10/8/12 at 8:11pm

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I don't think anyone is suggesting that Apple is going to sacrifice significant performance in the transition.

I think it's almost a given at this point that Apple will make performance competitive ARM parts, probably sooner (within 2-3 years) rather than later.

People talk about ARM like it's a CPU microarchitecture, with some sort of inherent glass ceiling on performance. It's not. It's an ISA, an instruction set, and this says next to nothing about how it must actually implemented in hardware, nor does it say anything about what performance levels it could be scaled to.

If Intel, a 110 billion dollar company, can keep an ISA like x86 performance competitive, then Apple, a 600 billion dollar company, sitting on tens of billions in cash, should be able to work similar magic with ARM, despite their relative lack of SoC experience (which they are rapidly rectifying).

I do not expect to see an ARM Macbook next year, but I would not be at all surprised to see ARM in everything Apple, up to and including the highest end Mac Pros in 4-5.
Edited by Blameless - 10/8/12 at 8:14pm

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CPU	Motherboard	Graphics	Graphics
i7 970 3012B113 @ 4GHz, 1.264v, HT On	Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD5 rev 2.0	Radeon 6870 1GB	Radeon 5750 @ 918/300 (cryptography coprocessor)
RAM	Hard Drive	Cooling	OS
6x4GiB Samsung MV-3V4G3 @ 1600, 8-8-8-24-T2, 1.4v	1TB Hitachi 7K1000.C, 2x250GB Seagate 7200.10s	Prolimatech Genesis	Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1
Monitor	Monitor	Power	Case
ASUS 22"	Acer 22"	Enermax Modu82+ 625w	Antec P182
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CPU	Motherboard	Graphics	RAM
AMD FX-8150 @ 4.52GHz (210x21.5), 1.45v load	GA-970A-UD3 rev 1.0 (F8a BIOS)	Radeon 6950 @ 945/1425, 1.2v	4x8GiB G.Skill Ares @ 1680, 9-10-9-28-T2, 1.5v
Hard Drive	Hard Drive	Cooling	OS
Samsung F3 1TB	2x Samsung F3 500GB RAID 0	Lapped TRUE + Panflo FBA12G12H1BX	Windows 7 Professional x64 SP1
Monitor	Power	Case
Dell S2740L (27", 1920x1080, 7ms, IPS)	Corsair TX650w	Cooler Master HAF 932
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[Tom's Hardware] Apple Considering Moving Macs Away From Intel Chips

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