Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › 1100T -- Stock clocks stable @ 1.300vcore.....
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

1100T -- Stock clocks stable @ 1.300vcore..... - Page 3

post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mezmenir View Post

Actually, yes I do.
Note here:

Along with those linked previously.
Note in this case: TCase is 62, Cores are 70.

This is a specification sheet. It doesn't say the word "limit" anywhere on it.


Why would they list a "limit" that varies by 7 degrees.....?
PINGAS!
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350@4.6ghz Asus Sabertooth 990FX MSI 6870 Hawk G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 2TB DVD H60 push/pull Win 7 
MonitorPower
60" Sony Bravia OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
  hide details  
Reply
PINGAS!
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350@4.6ghz Asus Sabertooth 990FX MSI 6870 Hawk G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 2TB DVD H60 push/pull Win 7 
MonitorPower
60" Sony Bravia OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 34
TCase MAX and TCTL MAX.

Why? Because think of it like this. The cores, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY REPORT, will always be hotter than "CPU". There is a physical law that governs thermal resistance, and last time I checked, processor IHS were not greater than 100% efficient at heat transfer off the die, onto a heatsink. The text I linked above also clearly states that:

"TCase MAX: maximum case temperature which is a physical value in degrees celsius."

I assume you know what TCase actually is, but incase you don't- it is temperature as measured in the thermocouple between the CPU Die and IHS, and between the IHS and heatsink base. The only way to physically measure this temperature yourself would be to cut a notch in the IHS and stick a thermal diode (with proper thermocouple) between the layers before seating the heatsink. It defines the entire processor or package temperature, just as TJunction has a very specific definition which is "at the highest source of heat".

Due to there being an extreme amount of thermal resistance inside the CPU between the CPU die and IHS, if you are actively cooling the IHS, the case temperature will be lower than the cores. Physics governs this.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-4790K ASRock Fatal1ty Z97X NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
32GB ADATA XPG DDR3-2400 1x 256GB Plextor M6e M.2-PCIe 2x 256GB Samsung SSD 830 2x 2TB Western Digital Black 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 6.4.9841 CTP Qnix QX2710LED Logitech G710 EVGA Supernova 1000 G2 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 500R Logitech G3 Creative Zx, Sennheiser HD598 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-4790K ASRock Fatal1ty Z97X NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
32GB ADATA XPG DDR3-2400 1x 256GB Plextor M6e M.2-PCIe 2x 256GB Samsung SSD 830 2x 2TB Western Digital Black 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 6.4.9841 CTP Qnix QX2710LED Logitech G710 EVGA Supernova 1000 G2 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 500R Logitech G3 Creative Zx, Sennheiser HD598 
  hide details  
Reply
post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mezmenir View Post

Look up a bit regarding AIDA64. CPU temperature (the one that is always higher, yeh?), is the TCase estimation from the sideband interface, it can be confirmed on an AM3 board with AM3+ CPU, this temperature will FAIL TO DISPLAY.

But AMD has never said anything about what it actually is, so your answer is no?
Quote:
I don't really have any certain side. I run my processor beyond their specifications, have, and will continue to. I argue this because they argue themselves.

Right, so you expect everyone else to run their chips outside of manufacturer reccomendations....

Please provided proof when an AMD rep reccomended anything other than 62C for Core temp. Otherwise, rolleyes.gif
Quote:
I also don't care about customer serivce messages. Like I said, the only thing that will change my mind is datasheets or hard proof derived otherwise.

Right, Like I said, you blantantly Ignore AMD's clear suggestions to use the Core temp, and keep it capped at 62 degrees. You said it's useless, and AMD doesn't go by Core temp for suggestions, but they do.

So you are wrong. smile.gif
PINGAS!
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350@4.6ghz Asus Sabertooth 990FX MSI 6870 Hawk G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 2TB DVD H60 push/pull Win 7 
MonitorPower
60" Sony Bravia OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
  hide details  
Reply
PINGAS!
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350@4.6ghz Asus Sabertooth 990FX MSI 6870 Hawk G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 2TB DVD H60 push/pull Win 7 
MonitorPower
60" Sony Bravia OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 34
Quote:
Right, so you expect everyone else to run their chips outside of manufacturer reccomendations....
Never said that.

Read up, you posted after my post.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-4790K ASRock Fatal1ty Z97X NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
32GB ADATA XPG DDR3-2400 1x 256GB Plextor M6e M.2-PCIe 2x 256GB Samsung SSD 830 2x 2TB Western Digital Black 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 6.4.9841 CTP Qnix QX2710LED Logitech G710 EVGA Supernova 1000 G2 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 500R Logitech G3 Creative Zx, Sennheiser HD598 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-4790K ASRock Fatal1ty Z97X NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
32GB ADATA XPG DDR3-2400 1x 256GB Plextor M6e M.2-PCIe 2x 256GB Samsung SSD 830 2x 2TB Western Digital Black 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 6.4.9841 CTP Qnix QX2710LED Logitech G710 EVGA Supernova 1000 G2 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 500R Logitech G3 Creative Zx, Sennheiser HD598 
  hide details  
Reply
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mezmenir View Post

TCase MAX and TCTL MAX.
Why? Because think of it like this. The cores, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEY REPORT, will always be hotter than "CPU". There is a physical law that governs thermal resistance, and last time I checked, processor IHS were not greater than 100% efficient at heat transfer off the die, onto a heatsink. The text I linked above also clearly states that:
"TCase MAX: maximum case temperature which is a physical value in degrees celsius."
I assume you know what TCase actually is, but incase you don't- it is temperature as measured in the thermocouple between the CPU Die and IHS, and between the IHS and heatsink base. The only way to physically measure this temperature yourself would be to cut a notch in the IHS and stick a thermal diode (with proper thermocouple) between the layers before seating the heatsink. It defines the entire processor or package temperature, just as TJunction has a very specific definition which is "at the highest source of heat".
Due to there being an extreme amount of thermal resistance inside the CPU between the CPU die and IHS, if you are actively cooling the IHS, the case temperature will be lower than the cores. Physics governs this.

Max what? Max limit, or Max temps acheived by stock setups? Does it say those are design LIMITS anywhere? Not that I can see

My car has a MAX MPG of 27, but it's not a limit, it's the MPG most cars will get in standard operation. If I drive economically, I can stretch that to +30 easy.

Max doesn't mean LIMIT.


Amd recommends a 62 core temp to be safe, by the multiple links I've given you. So it isn't the hottest temperature, but sticking with car analogy's, the coolant temperature isn't the highest Temperature in my car. All of the engine internals are hotter.

But you watch the coolant temperatures, because if they get to high, those already hot parts are going to get EVEN hotter.

Either way, you were wrong in your first post, and still are. AMD recommends 62C max core temps. tongue.gif
Edited by Gundamnitpete - 10/5/12 at 3:28am
PINGAS!
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350@4.6ghz Asus Sabertooth 990FX MSI 6870 Hawk G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 2TB DVD H60 push/pull Win 7 
MonitorPower
60" Sony Bravia OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
  hide details  
Reply
PINGAS!
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350@4.6ghz Asus Sabertooth 990FX MSI 6870 Hawk G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 2TB DVD H60 push/pull Win 7 
MonitorPower
60" Sony Bravia OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
  hide details  
Reply
post #26 of 34
Until you can definitively prove me wrong, we're sort of at an impass here.

Edit: and the absolute max is 97C, if I remember right. At the point where damage begins to set in.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-4790K ASRock Fatal1ty Z97X NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
32GB ADATA XPG DDR3-2400 1x 256GB Plextor M6e M.2-PCIe 2x 256GB Samsung SSD 830 2x 2TB Western Digital Black 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 6.4.9841 CTP Qnix QX2710LED Logitech G710 EVGA Supernova 1000 G2 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 500R Logitech G3 Creative Zx, Sennheiser HD598 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-4790K ASRock Fatal1ty Z97X NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
32GB ADATA XPG DDR3-2400 1x 256GB Plextor M6e M.2-PCIe 2x 256GB Samsung SSD 830 2x 2TB Western Digital Black 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 6.4.9841 CTP Qnix QX2710LED Logitech G710 EVGA Supernova 1000 G2 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 500R Logitech G3 Creative Zx, Sennheiser HD598 
  hide details  
Reply
post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mezmenir View Post

Until you can definitively prove me wrong, we're sort of at an impass here.
Edit: and the absolute max is 97C, if I remember right. At the point where damage begins to set in.

Ok, how about this:




You seem to think Tcase MAX is a design limit, but in that same document there is test data. This shows Tcase Max changing with a TDP. I.E. As the processor uses more power, it generates more heat (which we've all seen before).

It's very obvious, Tcase MAX is the maximum observed Temperature, not the maxmium limit of temperature.

You are right in that these chips can definitely take very high temps. Be for most of us, 62C is plenty to hit high marks. Even with my H60 my FX-8120 hits 4.2ghz at 62C max temp thumb.gif
PINGAS!
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350@4.6ghz Asus Sabertooth 990FX MSI 6870 Hawk G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 2TB DVD H60 push/pull Win 7 
MonitorPower
60" Sony Bravia OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
  hide details  
Reply
PINGAS!
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350@4.6ghz Asus Sabertooth 990FX MSI 6870 Hawk G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 2TB DVD H60 push/pull Win 7 
MonitorPower
60" Sony Bravia OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
  hide details  
Reply
post #28 of 34
Hey guys, what does all this arguing back and forth over who's right and wrong have to do with the OP?

Take it to a PM please, and lets get this back on topic.
Junkyard
(18 items)
 
NAStradamous
(12 items)
 
HTPC01
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 2320 @ 3.1GHz MSI B75MA-E33 HIS HD7970 3GB @ 1050 / 1700, 1.17v Patriot 2x4GB DDR3-1066 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial MX100 256GB WD Green 2TB DVDRW Corsair H50 Push / Pull 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
NZXT 120mm fans strapped to stock 7970 cooler Windows 10 Pro Dell 3007WFP Dell 2007FP 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 2007FP Cheap Toshiba (R.I.P. Ducky) PC Power & Cooling Silencer MKIII 950w Cheap Garbage (free) 
MouseAudio
Logitech G602 Yardsale Special 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3330 Asus H61 MSI GTX 750Ti Low Profile 2x4GB Hynix DDR3-1333 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
60GB Kingston SSD 1TB Seagate Samsung DVDRW CoolerMaster Gemin II 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8.1 + Steam Big Picture / Plex HT 50" Insignia LED 1080p Logitech Rosewill Green 530w 
CaseMouseAudioOther
Silverstone HTPC Logitech Pioneer 2.0 tower speakers + 135w RMS Rosewill MCE Remote 
  hide details  
Reply
Junkyard
(18 items)
 
NAStradamous
(12 items)
 
HTPC01
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 2320 @ 3.1GHz MSI B75MA-E33 HIS HD7970 3GB @ 1050 / 1700, 1.17v Patriot 2x4GB DDR3-1066 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Crucial MX100 256GB WD Green 2TB DVDRW Corsair H50 Push / Pull 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
NZXT 120mm fans strapped to stock 7970 cooler Windows 10 Pro Dell 3007WFP Dell 2007FP 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Dell 2007FP Cheap Toshiba (R.I.P. Ducky) PC Power & Cooling Silencer MKIII 950w Cheap Garbage (free) 
MouseAudio
Logitech G602 Yardsale Special 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5 3330 Asus H61 MSI GTX 750Ti Low Profile 2x4GB Hynix DDR3-1333 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
60GB Kingston SSD 1TB Seagate Samsung DVDRW CoolerMaster Gemin II 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8.1 + Steam Big Picture / Plex HT 50" Insignia LED 1080p Logitech Rosewill Green 530w 
CaseMouseAudioOther
Silverstone HTPC Logitech Pioneer 2.0 tower speakers + 135w RMS Rosewill MCE Remote 
  hide details  
Reply
post #29 of 34
Quote:
You seem to think Tcase MAX is a design limit, but in that same document there is test data. This shows Tcase Max changing with a TDP. I.E. As the processor uses more power, it generates more heat (which we've all seen before).

It's very obvious, Tcase MAX is the maximum observed Temperature, not the maxmium limit of temperature.

When did I say it was a design "limit"? Even AMD saying "run your cores at 62C" is not a design limit. It is merely a suggestion. Like I said, I run mine personally, outside of their safety blanket when I want 4.4 for folding@home.

Of course TCase max changes with TDP. The cooling system has to be able to cool the TDP amount, within the threshold of TCase max as listed on the thermal design sheet. Even the paper says that, lol.

However, I will admit one thing, I shouldn't say that they are useless temperatures, they are useful, I use them, but I also use a custom offset on them. Difference is, the CPU temperature is a hard number, and is what AMD wants to call the measurement point for TCase, as it is the physical value here, the cores are not.

You seem to think it were some injustice, you do realize that technically, my method sets an even larger safety net, right? CPU 62 = Cores 55 (measured, ~70 effective or close to it), give or take for variations in chips. Like I said, I run my chip well outside their blanket. I don't go telling other people to do so.

You have yet to satisfy my conditions, however. I'm still taking this to AMD because I do want the actual hard numbers regarding this- because they still argue themselves into the ground, as pretty much everything we've posted above. Has been fun though, even if I am half asleep.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-4790K ASRock Fatal1ty Z97X NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
32GB ADATA XPG DDR3-2400 1x 256GB Plextor M6e M.2-PCIe 2x 256GB Samsung SSD 830 2x 2TB Western Digital Black 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 6.4.9841 CTP Qnix QX2710LED Logitech G710 EVGA Supernova 1000 G2 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 500R Logitech G3 Creative Zx, Sennheiser HD598 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7-4790K ASRock Fatal1ty Z97X NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
32GB ADATA XPG DDR3-2400 1x 256GB Plextor M6e M.2-PCIe 2x 256GB Samsung SSD 830 2x 2TB Western Digital Black 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Microsoft Windows 6.4.9841 CTP Qnix QX2710LED Logitech G710 EVGA Supernova 1000 G2 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Carbide 500R Logitech G3 Creative Zx, Sennheiser HD598 
  hide details  
Reply
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post

Hey guys, what does all this arguing back and forth over who's right and wrong have to do with the OP?
Take it to a PM please, and lets get this back on topic.

I was only trying to clear up the AMD temps confusion. OP didn't state whether he was using CPU temp or Core temp for temp measurements, the difference can mean alot. smile.gif
PINGAS!
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350@4.6ghz Asus Sabertooth 990FX MSI 6870 Hawk G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 2TB DVD H60 push/pull Win 7 
MonitorPower
60" Sony Bravia OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
  hide details  
Reply
PINGAS!
(10 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350@4.6ghz Asus Sabertooth 990FX MSI 6870 Hawk G.Skill 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 2TB DVD H60 push/pull Win 7 
MonitorPower
60" Sony Bravia OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: AMD CPUs
Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › 1100T -- Stock clocks stable @ 1.300vcore.....