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$650 budget gaming pc, please comment as first build - Page 2

post #11 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrotguy View Post

I could not find a reference,, but Id bet money it could. One thing,, it is 7000 series igpu and 7000 gpu. llano i dont think can,, but trinity is 7000 series. The AMD support page only shows the crossfire (not hybrid) options and does show compatible chipsets. (which included intel chipsets, so the chart was clearly for crossfire and not hybrid.)
What I got from Toms hardware. was that the 74xx series and below dont do hybrid.. but it did show a list with 7450- 7670 being paired, and only the 7450 not working. (was nothing definite said, so idk)
but, I have looked for 20 minutes trying to prove you right,, and I cant.
AMD sites just say you can pair with a discrete gpu,, and Im gonna say a 7000 apu, can pair with a 7000 gpu. but a 6000 apu could not pair with a 7000 gpu.

llano chips could only be paried with up to a 6670, Trinity is probably 7670, which I do not think is released yet.
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post #12 of 37
Thread Starter 
I definitely appreciate the help, and a few comments.

picked up a copy of Win 7 for $30, ya thrilled!!
Will check into psu, and I understand its very important.

let me see if I have Trinity right.
CPU and GPU in one.
GPU is weak And for doing anything gaming wise, have to have a vid card?


Do i really lose much performance going mATX?

Thanks all so much appreciated.
post #13 of 37
OP are you near a microcenter?

I think that build is a little underpowered for the money. Here's some examples I did, ranging from older to newer.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aoqm-6PvQW_OdDJFT2lwNExtMFhDTmtmcWQwc0h3U3c
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aoqm-6PvQW_OdDVOVUh3WWQxcUVJLVhfdFdHTEpSLVE
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aoqm-6PvQW_OdFRnOXZ6SkJrc1hKWUh0OGZmaEpPNVE

Your graphics should be better and the i3 is a good choice, allows you to upgrade in the future. Basically, save money more money into GPU as your bottleneck for gaming FPS with your build atm. The latter two builds are underpowered because I spent less money on purpose knowing what games they wanted to play (limited selection, one of them was SC + source games, another Assassin's Creed and pretty much nothing else)
Edited by FlashFir - 10/5/12 at 12:36pm
post #14 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by fliphusker View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I definitely appreciate the help, and a few comments.
picked up a copy of Win 7 for $30, ya thrilled!!
Will check into psu, and I understand its very important.
let me see if I have Trinity right.
CPU and GPU in one.
GPU is weak And for doing anything gaming wise, have to have a vid card?
Do i really lose much performance going mATX?
Thanks all so much appreciated.

Yes Trinity and Llano are both chips produced by AMD and have an improved integrated GPU. When compared to Intels integrated graphics, it's not even comparable.

Both Llano's and Trinity's iGPU are very capable of entry level gaming. It should "play" every game. And when performance is not what is expected, a 6670 can be added for hybrid xfire, The performance would be close to a 7750. Which is nice for entry level gaming and will most games with acceptable frame rates at mediumish settings (some higher and some lower).

You will not really loose too much by going M-ATX, ATX should be preferred when possible.
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post #15 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman517 View Post

llano chips could only be paried with up to a 6670, Trinity is probably 7670, which I do not think is released yet.

reference?
post #16 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrotguy View Post

reference?
reference for what? llano or trinity? llano is known to only be able to hybrid xfire with a 6670 or lesser. It is common knowledge. There is plenty of information on it on the web.

I said "probably" with my Trinity statement, meaning there is no proof as of yet and I am uncertain. I am assuming they will follow the same steps as llano.
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post #17 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashFir View Post

OP are you near a microcenter?
I think that build is a little underpowered for the money. Here's some examples I did, ranging from older to newer.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aoqm-6PvQW_OdDJFT2lwNExtMFhDTmtmcWQwc0h3U3c
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aoqm-6PvQW_OdDVOVUh3WWQxcUVJLVhfdFdHTEpSLVE
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aoqm-6PvQW_OdFRnOXZ6SkJrc1hKWUh0OGZmaEpPNVE
Your graphics should be better and the i3 is a good choice, allows you to upgrade in the future. Basically, save money more money into GPU as your bottleneck for gaming FPS with your build atm. The latter two builds are underpowered because I spent less money on purpose knowing what games they wanted to play (limited selection, one of them was SC + source games, another Assassin's Creed and pretty much nothing else)

I do not live by one, live in Middle of Nebraska.
where in my build do I bottleneck on FPS? Hopefully your understanding i do not want 80 fps, as zero point in going over 60.

here is my thinking on trinity. Why invest in something if your going to have to turn around and spend money to basically make it better? hence a 2nd gpu. World of tanks, it is up for huge debate on whether or not it supports crossfire.
i currently have no other plans on getting hooked on another game, not saying i will not, but always want to keep in mind expansion down the road.
post #18 of 37
I think I would have to agree with going for the Trinity CPU.. It seems to perform extremely well on the lower budget range gaming machines. Don't expect it to be able to play metro 2033 or any other extremely high demand game, but a lot of other games are playable in the 30-60fps range on medium settings without having an independent GPU. If you find you may need one, match it up with a 7000 series card(like 7770). If you have any programs with OpenCL, this will dominate it. Overall, the Trinity chip has done very well on the lower budget levels and entry level PC's.
The FM2 mobo's also come in the micro-ATX if you so choose to keep that form factor though I would recommend a regular ATX form factor instead.

If you choose to stick with Intel, that build looks pretty decent as is. The PSU could stand to be changed out for something with a little better "track record". The i3 gives outstanding performance across the board.

I would recommend looking into the Trinity set-up over Intel but either set-up should be perfectly fine for entry level gaming. Trinity, you may be able to shave off about $30-40 and keep the same approximate performance level, or you can stick with yours and have more sufficient room for future upgrades if you so choose.
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post #19 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by fliphusker View Post

Would gladly take any advice, just do not flame me for being nub. I know full well I am.
I will only use the pc for World of Tanks, and surfing. World of tanks currently does not support multi core and plenty of debate about crossfire. i do nto really plan to overclock, mainly concerns about messing up and hardware longevity. I do not plan to play on the highest graphics settings.
Already have mouse, keyboard and OS. $650 budget is unmovable up, as i am really 50 over what i wanted to spend.
will gladly take any advice, and thanks a lot in advance.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks
CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor ($119.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77M Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($97.55 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($35.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7770 1GB Video Card ($119.98 @ NCIX US)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 430 ATX Mid Tower Case ($29.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Cooler Master eXtreme Power Plus 500W ATX12V Power Supply ($37.98 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS90 DVD/CD Writer ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Hannspree HE225DPB 21.5" Monitor ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $648.45
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
I think you should change your video card. Nvidia Geforce 40 is really pretty cool graphics card and also best for gaming pc but overall your pc will be good in your budget.
post #20 of 37
I'd say the same. The extra $20-50 price premium is worth the upgrade options in the future. The FM2 socket is gonna do nothing but limit you.

Right now your best bet is to cut corners (but not on quality!).

PSU: Right now, that PSU is terrible. Our PSU subforum has 2 good Sticks you should read. But here's a review on that one if you're not convinced.
I hate PSU industry. Anyways now that that comment is outta the way.

Here's the dealio. You can find a new power supply for $20-45 after rebate. The question is, how cheap do you go? That extra $20 to your GPU can make the 10-20 FPS difference if you combine it with other savings you get from your build.

What wattage? Which means we're asking the question:
Upgrades in the future: are you always going to stick to single card? or are you ever going to run a XFIRE/SLI setup? I recommend not. If that's the case, single GPU setups can run on 500w easy. In which case, let me present to you the different options

Never pay more than $10/100w. Search slickdeals for estimate on what price I think you should bite on.
  • Lowest wattage option: Corsair CX430 v2 @$25 Reviewed well over @ jonnyguru and if you plug in your system into PSUCalc, made by our own Phaedrus smile.gif, I'd hedge that power supply as a bet that your system would fit into that wattage range. (Don't forget, the PSUCalc mentions that even the wattage recommended it spits out, you have more than enough headroom to do some overclocking on your CPU & GPU!) Tell me if you're squeezing it with an i5-k OC + a solid single GPU. I'm not sure, don't have the PSUCalc installed on my parents computer.
  • Probably option I would go with: ... Don't see any. Usually it's a 600w OCZ ModXStream for $30AR or another similar model that's rated well on Hardwaresecrets/JonnyGuru. None to be seen for cheap on Newegg atm. They always roll around about once a month.

Case: Yea, I'd say go with the Elite 430 that people are linking you. Cheap, does the job. Used it for my first case. (430 for me --> Fractal R3 --> Silverstone PS07)

Mobo: Change the mobo. No VRM heatsinks or any VRM cooling. You're going to want that for overclocking in the future. Same price point, why not have it?
About VRMs
Granted, we're dealing with a 77w TDP processors, not AMD's 125w, or 140w processors. But might as well pay for VRM cooling to keep the options for overclocking. It shouldn't actually cost you more money.

Options I would consider on a budget:
  1. Biostar TZ77B 6 phases, heatsinked, Biostar is known to have higher quality Mosfets, so if this board has all the PCI Slots you want, great! $87
  2. ASRock Z77 Pro4-M heatsinked, friend has this board running his 3570k + 670 in a tj08. $117
  3. Biostar TZ77A This one likes like the winner out of the bunch. Look how cheap it is! $97

Monitor: Search using slickdeals. I got a 23 inch for $90 using slickdeals and being patient. Similarly, upgraded to my 27" Korean IPS (1440p) for $290, selling old monitor for $100, making it $190 upgrade. $120 for 21" is okay, not awesome.
Examples: http://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php#vote=6&q=led+monitor&firstonly=1 (This is LED)
http://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php#vote=6&q=lcd+monitor&firstonly=1 LCD search.

So for the same price, you should be able to get a 23, which feels a bit bigger than a 21.5 which I did before. Now I'm at 27 and can't go back haha
Readup on threads, get an idea of what people over @ slickdeals will take as a good deal and when you see a good monitor deal pop up, hit it.

GPU: So with all that being said about those components, you should have a least a few extra bills in your pocket. Rasiing your GPU budget up from $120 to about $150 at which... You could actually wait for a 7850!
http://www.overclock.net/t/1312825/xbitlabs-amd-slashes-pricing-of-radeon-hd-7700-7800-graphics-cards/0_100
Quote:
Starting today, AMD Radeon HD 7850 1GB costs $159 (after rebate), whereas the 2GB version carries $189 official price-tag. The AMD Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition graphics board now has manufacturer suggested retail price of $119. AMD specifically reduced price of sub-$200 graphics boards to improve positions in the most popular segment of graphics boards.
http://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?firstonly=1&q=7850
They're hitting the $175 pricepoint, which is a little out of your budget but I'd say it's one of the best P/P cards you can get out there atm.

I know I'm pushing you a little tight here though! Otherwise, if it's just not doable to put a 7850 in (LOL just realized what I did to your build, going from a 7770 and a 7850)
http://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?firstonly=1&q=6870
http://slickdeals.net/newsearch.php?firstonly=1&q=6850
can be had for that range. However, you'll be feeling the upgrade FPS urges about 7-12months earlier with these cards than with a 7850 biggrin.gif
*Edit2: Well. I guess I didn't save you any money, so doesn't look like that money can go into a GPU upgrade. Le sigh. P/P curse you! Sometimes unattainable xd
Edited by FlashFir - 10/5/12 at 9:58pm
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