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post #61 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

I don't think Intel wanted to compete with Apple. It's far more likely that the ultrabook push both expands the market for Intel's ooh so expensive (read overpriced) ULV chips while at the same time creates demand for Intel's chips increasing prices further.
A great side effect is that it helps keep ARM and MIPS out of the laptop market.

No, Intel does absolutely want to compete with MBA. They are attempting to create an alternative market since they fear Apple will eventually drop them.
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post #62 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

No, Intel does absolutely want to compete with MBA. They are attempting to create an alternative market since they fear Apple will eventually drop them.

By definition, Intel doesn't compete with the MBA as Intel has no devices and also supplies the chips for Apple. If Apple were to drop Intel chips, other companies would likely also have reason and opportunity to drop too while Intel would have spent millions advertising a form factor only to lose the entire market. The only thing to keep this from happening is to offer a product that is superior in some way.
post #63 of 140
I don't see Apple dropping intel anytime soon. ARM doesn't have the performance for the laptop/desktop segments, and AMD doesn't have the power efficiency.
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post #64 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

I don't see Apple dropping intel anytime soon. ARM doesn't have the performance for the laptop/desktop segments, and AMD doesn't have the power efficiency.

Not yet. The gains from Steamroller and Excavator will be massive. Steamroller more on the performance side of things, Excavator on the power side.
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post #65 of 140
N00b question, what's the pattern/theme behind Intel's CPU code names?

I know AMD Graphics is all Islands: Northern/Southern/Sea Islands etc

AMD CPU recently is all construction vehicle: Bulldozer/Steamroller/Excavator etc

Nvidia GPU is all scientists: Fermi/Kepler/Maxwell etc
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post #66 of 140
God I love thorough write-ups.
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post #67 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

N00b question, what's the pattern/theme behind Intel's CPU code names?
I know AMD Graphics is all Islands: Northern/Southern/Sea Islands etc

AMD CPU recently is all construction vehicle: Bulldozer/Steamroller/Excavator etc
Nvidia GPU is all scientists: Fermi/Kepler/Maxwell etc

Intel creates codenames based on in-house lotteries so long as they clear legal. Sandy Bridge's codename was originally in Hebrew.


Each tick/tock partner (at least from Sandy on) shares a similar naming scheme with the other member in its architecture generation.

Sandy/Ivy Bridge
Has/Broadwell (Haswell so named because it has Crystalwell? But that's my own speculation.)
Skylake/mont
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post #68 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

N00b question, what's the pattern/theme behind Intel's CPU code names?
I know AMD Graphics is all Islands: Northern/Southern/Sea Islands etc

AMD CPU recently is all construction vehicle: Bulldozer/Steamroller/Excavator etc
Nvidia GPU is all scientists: Fermi/Kepler/Maxwell etc

The code names are based on towns near Intel development centers.
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post #69 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

And still they insist in the ultrabooks.

Geez! They're DEAD!! They don't sell crap, their performance is seriously lacking, their battery duration is below notebooks, and their weight savings... Well, they just aren't there.

I can guarantee that the performance of an Ultrabook is perfectly fine for about 99% of people, especially when you consider that only a foolish person would expect one to encode video quickly, or the like. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post



no voltage regulators

Yep, Haswell puts them on the CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbed117 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post



no voltage regulators
How?
On-Chip VRMs aren't possible yet are they?

What? They've been possible for years.

The P5 core ran at 3.3v but the 486s all ran at 5v, so Intel put a VRM onboard the actual Pentium Overdrive so the P5 got its 3.3v.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

And still they insist in the ultrabooks.
Geez! They're DEAD!! They don't sell crap, their performance is seriously lacking, their battery duration is below notebooks, and their weight savings... Well, they just aren't there.

What on earth are you talking about? Portable computing is obviously mainstream now whether you like it or not. Desktops will still have their place but the average joe will buy an ultrabook instead of a desktop.

This. Laptops and mobile are the majority of sales for CPUs these days, when you include that Intel is moving into smartphones too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z Overlord View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

And still they insist in the ultrabooks.
Geez! They're DEAD!! They don't sell crap, their performance is seriously lacking, their battery duration is below notebooks, and their weight savings... Well, they just aren't there.

there will never be a reason to buy an ultra book with Macbook Air's and Macbook Pros existing

Those are Ultrabooks, to be compared on features like any other Ultrabook or notebook.

Myself? I'd take the Samsung R530 I have over a new Macbook Pro, the performance is good enough for me (The only 3 games I play on it can be maxed out at its native res of 1366x738 with a HD545v, only one lags and it's so CPU limited that it lags on a 4.4Ghz i5 3570k, let alone a 2.4Ghz i3 from the last generation.)
The only gripe I have with my laptop is battery life (Stands at about 4 hours max, 3 hours and 30 minutes or so in Linux which is what I usually run it with) and Ultrabooks have that down with the 7 hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Man this AT article is awesome. Wonder how long it'll take for AVX2 and FMA to be widely used.

This is what I love about Linux, if I get a Haswell laptop (And assuming the mobile i3s have AVX2, etc) then it only takes as long as it takes for GCC to support it for me to be able to have it enabled in programs I use every day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z Overlord View Post

Quote:
Speak for yourself. The Asus Zenbook and Samsung Series 9 has several advantages over the Air and MBP.

no they don't

Care to 1) Use proper grammar (Check the TOS, it says "You are EXPECTED to: Use capitalization") and 2) explain why they don't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Why would clock speed take a hit on the increase L3 latency? Many workloads don't have to hit L3 anyways. (i.e. Slightly different but see AMD's Athon II vs Phenom II).
IPC is suppose to go up a decent 5-15%?

Was talking about the L3/ring bus clock. It's a separate clock from the CPU and GPU again, so it may or may not be lower than the CPU clock.

And yeah, 5-15%. It's just that it would be higher if the L3 latency was staying nice and low like in Sandy Bridge. I know that it's not a huge deal, but in a game where percentage gains are small, a 1-2% hit (or whatever the resulting performance loss is) is pretty significant. The exclusion of L3 in Athlon II was an 8% difference (either on average or in games, don't remember), if I recall correctly.

I don't think that latency is the main thing here, just the clock speed and bandwidth on it, that said..I don't think it matters much overall because the L3 cache tends to serve as more of a net for what falls through the cracks anyway, L2 and RAM speed is probably more important.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z Overlord View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

That's not a great argument...... Android. This other platform has beaten Apple in marketshare.

yeah but android can be placed on anything, even cheap stuff

ultra books cannot be "placed" on cheap stuff, ultra books are high end only products, no $300 ultra books

AMD would like a word with you. wink.gif

And wasn't the most selling Android phone the SGSII? Followed by the SGSIII? Hardly cheap phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

That's not a great argument...... Android. This other platform has beaten Apple in marketshare.

Phones. Not laptops.

Which makes it all the more likely that people would go with an Ultrabook over a Macbook, I've seen so many people say "I'd love a Mac..but none of the programs I use are compatible".

Why else does Windows outsell OS X 10 to 1?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

I wouldn't compare Haswell with Bulldozer. At all. Bulldozer is an unbalanced architecture that gives either results competitive with a core i7-2600K or worse than a Phenom II X4, depending on the workload. Haswell will perform better than Ivy Bridge in all circumstances.

Not in applications that are sensitive to L3 latency. Even if it does, performance would be higher had Intel left the L3 alone.

The Bulldozer comparison is quite valid. They both are quite reliant on ISA adoption. That was the point I was getting at. In order for Bulldozer to pull ahead of its predecessor, it needs software support. In order for Haswell to pull ahead of its predecessor, it needs software support. Haswell at least improves in other categories, but its strengths, like Bulldozer's, are very, very software reliant.

I'd argue that most applications either fit in the L2 cache or are too big to fit in the L3 cache.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

No, Intel does absolutely want to compete with MBA. They are attempting to create an alternative market since they fear Apple will eventually drop them.

By definition, Intel doesn't compete with the MBA as Intel has no devices and also supplies the chips for Apple. If Apple were to drop Intel chips, other companies would likely also have reason and opportunity to drop too while Intel would have spent millions advertising a form factor only to lose the entire market. The only thing to keep this from happening is to offer a product that is superior in some way.

Not really, Apple are designing their own chips now (See: The A6) and have done architecture switches before...Samsung, Dell, HP, etc are all tied to x86 for the foreseeable future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TranquilTempest View Post

I don't see Apple dropping intel anytime soon. ARM doesn't have the performance for the laptop/desktop segments, and AMD doesn't have the power efficiency.

Apple was considering AMD iirc, probably for the iMac with Trinity or Llano, they couldn't do it because their didn't have the manufacturing capability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

N00b question, what's the pattern/theme behind Intel's CPU code names?

I know AMD Graphics is all Islands: Northern/Southern/Sea Islands etc

AMD CPU recently is all construction vehicle: Bulldozer/Steamroller/Excavator etc

Nvidia GPU is all scientists: Fermi/Kepler/Maxwell etc

I'm pretty sure it's areas near their offices iirc.
    
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post #70 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Exactly.
All the current ultrabooks want to be a Macbook but don't have neither the looks, nor the battery life, nor the performance, nor the screen.
And I'm anti Apple to death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chip94 View Post

No they don't. Every UltraBook in the market is trying to become another MacBook Air. They may have the specs but they just don't have the looks which 99% people look for. Thats the reason I went for the Air instead of an ultrabook.

Totally agree on the looks. Dark grey vs. light grey? Ewww.





Headphone jack between ports? Disgusting.




I wish these ultrabooks would get some sense of style.

Edit: Forget to mention my disgust for a 1920x1080 IPS panel. So last decade. 1440x900 TN is where it's at. Go MBA!
Edited by C-bro - 10/5/12 at 8:49pm
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