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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 126

post #1251 of 33693
Well the only tim that should never go away is Liquid Pro as it is Pure metal the others are not pure they have other things added to them.
    
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post #1252 of 33693
Thread Starter 
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCWargamer View Post

Systemlord, yes something odd that some deliders found on the anandtech forums. Delidded temp gains degraded over time. Problem is related to TIM choice and caused by thermal action "pumping" some types of TIM out - needing to be replaced over time. The link to the thread is found on the first page of this, our own, thread link under:
Now for the real reason your Ivy Bridge runs hot.
Where it notes the following about the die to IHS gap as being the main cause of the IB temp problem, but he also mentions the TIM choice issue they ran into and the need for further TIM testing. They still plan on doing further TIM testing sometime soon.
see #583:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2261855&page=24
_________________________________
....
The take home message there is replacing the CPU TIM doesn't really provide any benefit. Reducing the gap between the CPU and the IHS does. And removing the IHS entirely doesn't really provide much benefit either.
And that stands to reason. The heat is going to flow through the copper of the IHS the same as it does through the copper of the H100 waterblock.
But if there is a thick pad of thermal paste in the way, as was the case with my 3770k at time of purchase, then it doesn't really matter how good the TIM itself is (unless it too is made of metal) because the mere presence of that thick pad of thermal paste becomes the weakest link in the thermal conductivity equation.
Once you eliminate the bottleneck that is the gap between the IHS and the CPU, or if you happen to end up with an Ivy Bridge CPU which doesn't have much of a gap to begin with (Yuriman ), then you have pretty much optimized the system at that point regardless which CPU TIM of choice you employ and regardless whether or not you leave the IHS in place.
Now the choice of CPU TIM still plays a role in terms of the robustness in maintaining those nice low temperatures. If the so-called "pump out" effect is real then we can expect it to bite us unless we choose a substitute CPU TIM that is designed to avoid such thermo-mechanical effects.
I haven't really got into testing that part out yet, but I expect IC Diamond and the metal TIMs like Liquid Ultra to be key there.

Very well put PC. Couldn't have answered any better.
post #1253 of 33693
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCWargamer View Post

Great find - and thanks to VonDutch for his help. Great to see your temps fixed. smile.gif
If you use CL Ultra, then that is one of the TIMs that might/should do better on the "pumping" issue. But not fully tested yet. Did you notice how your first application looked before you replaced it today? Do you think the whole fix was due to the IHS problem? Or the new application of the TIM?
Keep an eye out to see if your temps start to degrade over time or not to see if this "pumping" issue is happening. If so, new TIM application will restore temps gains, and you/we will need to consider if Ultra is as good as ICD or PRO at fighting this "pumping" problem.
definitely and absolutely my problem with core #2 running hot was related to putting silicone under IHS where it was not supposed to be. either it was raising the whole IHS upwards or it was blocking some internal air flow. either way it's fixed now after I re-did the delid and omitted the mentioned area while applying black RTV under IHS.

however, my run for 5GHz daily seems to be cursed either way, because now my BIOS is playing tricks on me ... can't go above x49 multi and 140% of CPU current capability no matter what! have just upgraded my Asus MVE bios to new release (published 5 days ago) and even when I set 50x multi and disable the CPU current limits it still reports 49x multi (which is exactly 140% current limit) in Windows, grrrrrr .... and what's worse I'm too drunk by now to think of any solutions that would make sense ha ha! ... I guess I will leave it for tomorrow ... wink.gif

edit:
tomorrow will also re-submit my deliding club entry with new temps, max OC gain and max OC CPU-Z validation ... just need to figure out why my board started limiting me to 140% of CPU OC on new BIOS ...
Edited by feniks - 10/21/12 at 12:18am
post #1254 of 33693
Had problems getting Liquid Pro on my die and block to mount properly. I think I got good coat of it on die and block with good mount now. Running IBT test right now and will post results soon. Looking good so far.
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B.K.T.
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post #1255 of 33693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonDa5 View Post

Had problems getting Liquid Pro on my die and block to mount properly. I think I got good coat of it on die and block with good mount now. Running IBT test right now and will post results soon. Looking good so far.

Very interested in how PRO on your system will compare to ICD on your system.
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3770K Gaming Sys
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120GB SanDisk Extreme SSD  1TB WD Black Caviar  2TB Seagate Barracuda TSSTcorp cd/dvd/bd 
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post #1256 of 33693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

Well the only tim that should never go away is Liquid Pro as it is Pure metal the others are not pure they have other things added to them.

Yes, I think PRO is one of the best choices to fight the possible "pumping" problem and maintain long-term temp gains. The other TIM choice that seems to do well so far is ICD. Ultra should also do good, but it may remain too liquid (unlike PRO) and thus suffer the "pumping" problem over time.

More long-term TIM testing needs to take place to figure out the eventual list of good and bad TIMs for delidding. People on this thread should be on the lookout for temp degradation issues and let us know what TIM you are using and for how long, so we can start to see which TIMs are best ourselves.
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120GB SanDisk Extreme SSD  1TB WD Black Caviar  2TB Seagate Barracuda TSSTcorp cd/dvd/bd 
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3770K Gaming Sys
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3770K 4.5GHz Asus Sabertooth Z77 EVGA Gtx560ti 448 FTW (2x SLI) 16GB Crucial Ballistic Tactical 1866 9-9-9-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
120GB SanDisk Extreme SSD  1TB WD Black Caviar  2TB Seagate Barracuda TSSTcorp cd/dvd/bd 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Coursair H80 Win7 64 Acer 27" Wide LCD HD Logitech Black Illuminated 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Coursair AX850 Cooler Master HAF 922  Kensington Yep! w/wristpad! 
AudioAudio
Xonar DX 7.1 PCIe Logitech Z906 5.1 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.5GHZ 24/7 Ausu P8Z68-M Pro ATI 5770 Kingston Blue 1333 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Sandisk Extream 120GB SSD 750GB HDD CD/DVD Cooler Master 212 EVO 
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post #1257 of 33693
Delidded IB i5-3570k @ 4.5GHZ 1.15v with NO IHS with DT SNIPER Water block
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2551498

Loop configuration as tested. Single 120mm slim HWLABS Black ICE radiator.




TIM IC Diamond 24
IBT 4.5GHZ Maximum memory tested 5 passes
Ambient Temps 26C
Best Temps seen over a 2 week period using IC Diamond





TIM Liquid Pro
IBT 4.5GHZ Maximum memory tested 10 passes
Ambient Temps 25C
Fresh Install



With IC Diamond 24 average temp of each core was 73C under IBT load. With Liquid Pro average temp of each core is at 61C!! under IBT load. smile.gif

Taking a look at my IB 3570k progress since delidding.

Before Delidding.

Ambient Temp 26C

TIM IC Diamond 24

Temps under LinX load 83C 93C 89C 84C average of 87.25C per core.


Since delidding I have been able to lower my average core temps under IBT 100% load at 4.5GHZ by 26.25C per core!!!
Edited by SonDa5 - 10/21/12 at 2:28am
B.K.T.
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B.K.T.
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OCZ AGILITY 4 LG 16x BD burner DT Sniper CPU block Watercool HEATKILLER® GPU-X³ 79X0 Ni-Bl  
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post #1258 of 33693
Valgaur wondering if you got my validation link its in my sig.
post #1259 of 33693
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

dude! Vondutch, you are my hero now! biggrin.gif the Flying Dutchman I'd say you should call yourself tongue.gif
I have just finished completely re-doing the die TIM and IHS cleaning together with black RTV silicone and avoided the area intel stock glue avoided (which you pointed out) and I am saved!!! core# 2 temps are pretty much only slightly above core #1 biggrin.gif
here, my 4.9GHz screenie (note that before the core #2 was hitting 102C!) where core#2 hit only 87C biggrin.gifWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
mve49ghzoffse02001424vv.png
despite my CPU degradation trouble, at least I was able to fix the temperatures AND my CPU looks still stock biggrin.gif .. I bet even Intel won't notice that I have tampered with IHS biggrin.gif
... hitting on 5GHz next biggrin.gif

Haha, glad it all worked out for you thumb.gif great!,
but i wont change my name ...LOL biggrin.gif
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post #1260 of 33693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonDa5 View Post

With IC Diamond24 average temp of each core was 73C under IBT load.
With Liquid Pro average temp of each core is at 61C!! under IBT load. smile.gif

Taking a look at my IB 3570k progress since delidding.
Before Delidding.
Ambient Temp 26C
TIM IC Diamond 24
Temps under LinX load 83C 93C 89C 84C average of 87.25C per core.
Since delidding I have been able to lower my average core temps under IBT 100% load at 4.5GHZ by 26.25C per core!!!

Great results sonda thumb.gif
i almost knew for sure if you got the mount right, CLP would do better then ICD wink.gif
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