Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › [Official] Delidded Club / Guide
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 1287

post #12861 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joa3d43 View Post

Questions on post-delid - running CPU die 'naked' headscratch.gif

After checking and reapplying CL-U to my delidded CPU yesterday, I noticed that the IHS is quite curved, both below (die-to-IHS) and above (IHS-to-w-c block)...clearly supported by the stain patterns of TIM...even lapping might not get it, especially on the IHS underside, even though my temps are very good already and cores fairly well balanced

There are a few folks here that have run their delidded CPU 'naked' / IHS-free. First, I am wondering whether I have to remove the CPU lock-down mechanism (including the front screw) from the mobo, or does the naked die still protrude enough to get good contact with the CPU pins in the socket ?

That segways into the second question: Running naked will apparently take several tries of 'no boot', or any partial boot before freeze - usually a sign that the contact with the pins is not right.

Those folks who have actually done this (either successfully or not) can you share what to watch out for, what to remove and how to apply the 'right' pressure ? Thanks in advance smile.gif

I'm hardly the expert on "direct die" Sonda5 is the real pioneer, I'm just following in his footsteps.

Yes, you must remove the ILM (Independant Loading Mechanism), or "CPU lock-down mechanism" as you call it, or the die will not make contact with the waterblock. Additionally, your cold plate, water block or other thermal solution will need to be capable of applying enough static compressive force as to electrically seat the processor onto the socket contacts. Intel defines this as a minimum of 311 Newtons [70 lbf], and a maximum 822 Newtons [185 lbf] total static compressive load (ILM plus Heatsink) for the 1155 socket. See http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/design-guides/3rd-gen-core-lga1155-socket-guide.pdf

I am using the EK-LGA115x TRUE Backplate on my motherboard and highly reccomend it, especially if you are going to go direct die. It just makes life a lot easier, and if you later decide to re-install the ILM, it is very easy to do. It is only $5.99 from Performance PCS:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_971_410&products_id=30745

This guide will show you how to remove the ILM:
http://www.ekwb.com/shop/EK-IM/EK-IM-3831109855553.pdf

It might help to get familiar with your motherboard's POST codes before you begin. Remove the memory and try to boot, see what happens; remove the CPU and try to boot. Also, make sure your system is stable, and do not try to boot directly into a highly overclocked setting right away. Pick a known good "default" BIOS setting, and set that as your default to boot into before you power down to begin delidding.

I am using the springs that came with my Koolance 380i to apply the loading. I gently set the waterblock on top of the die, tighten the thumbscrews until they just make contact with the springs, and then tighten the screws two or three turns in a cross pattern (two corners at a time), enough so that the springs are applying the force to the block, but not so much that they are fully compressed, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 compressed--just guessing.
Edited by MikeG - 3/1/13 at 11:14am
Smoke and Mirrors
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3770K  Z77 MPower (MS-7751) MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5/OC Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
Avexir MSI Z77 MPOWER Optimized DDR3 2400 OCZ Vertex 4 VTX4-25SAT3-256G 2.5" 256GB SATA I... Koolance CPU-380I Water Block XSPC EX360 Radiator  
CoolingOSPowerCase
XSPC D5 Dual Bay Reservoir/Pump Combo Windows 7 Corsair AX860i NZXT Switch 810  
  hide details  
Reply
Smoke and Mirrors
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3770K  Z77 MPower (MS-7751) MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5/OC Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
Avexir MSI Z77 MPOWER Optimized DDR3 2400 OCZ Vertex 4 VTX4-25SAT3-256G 2.5" 256GB SATA I... Koolance CPU-380I Water Block XSPC EX360 Radiator  
CoolingOSPowerCase
XSPC D5 Dual Bay Reservoir/Pump Combo Windows 7 Corsair AX860i NZXT Switch 810  
  hide details  
Reply
post #12862 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post

I'm hardly the expert on "direct die" Valguar and/or Von Dutch here are the real pioneers, I'm just following in their footsteps.

Yes, you must remove the ILM (Independant Loading Mechanism), or "CPU lock-down mechanism" as you call it, or the die will not make contact with the waterblock. Additionally, your cold plate, water block or other thermal solution will need to be capable of applying enough static compressive force as to electrically seat the processor onto the socket contacts. Intel defines this as a minimum of 311 Newtons [70 lbf], and a maximum 822 Newtons [185 lbf] total static compressive load (ILM plus Heatsink) for the 1155 socket. See http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/design-guides/3rd-gen-core-lga1155-socket-guide.pdf

I am using the EK-LGA115x TRUE Backplate on my motherboard and highly reccomend it, especially if you are going to go direct die. It just makes life a lot easier, and if you later decide to re-install the ILM, it is very easy to do. It is only $5.99 from Performance PCS:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_971_410&products_id=30745

This guide will show you how to remove the ILM:
http://www.ekwb.com/shop/EK-IM/EK-IM-3831109855553.pdf

It might help to get familiar with your motherboard's POST codes before you begin. Remove the memory and try to boot, see what happens; remove the CPU and try to boot. Also, make sure your system is stable, and do not try to boot directly into a highly overclocked setting right away. Pick a known good "default" BIOS setting, and set that as your default to boot into before you power down to begin delidding.

I am using the springs that came with my Koolance 380i to apply the loading. I gently set the waterblock on top of the die, tighten the thumbscrews until they just make contact with the springs, and then tighten the screws two or three turns in a cross pattern (two corners at a time), enough so that the springs are applying the force to the block, but not so much that they are fully compressed, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 compressed--just guessing.

I would give sonda5 the credit on direct die
post #12863 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeek View Post

It was probably more of the VTT or VCCSA voltage killing the chip. VTT was probably at 1.25 and VCCSA was at 1.2. Vcore somewhere around 1.7 biggrin.gif It just posted, went past loading windows screen, then poof, dead tongue.gif

...well at least you had some fun by the sounds of it ...I'm no expert on VTT, but from what I've read, anything over 1.21 is getting dicey @ 3770K / IMC, though the 1.7 vCore on non-extreme cooling was probably 'not helpful' biggrin.gif ...I admire your guts, though thumb.gif
post #12864 of 33558
Good news, I seem to be looking stable so far at 1.27v (4.7Ghz HT) with 65c max temp. 62c average.
X79-GCN
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930K 4.5GHz HT GIGABYTE GA-X79-UP4 AMD R9-290X GEil Evo Potenza DDR3 2400MHz CL10 (4x4GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 120GB EK Supremacy (CPU) NF F12's P/P (360 Rad)  NF A14's (420 Rad)  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC Chrome Compression Fittings EK RES X3 150 Primochill PremoFlex Advanced LRT Clear 1/2 ID EK-FC (R9 290X) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
EK D5 Vario Top-X  Phobya G-Changer V2 360mm Phobya G-Changer V2 420mm Win 10 x64 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ XR3501 35" Curved Corsair Vengeance K90 Seasonic X-1250 Gold (v2) Corsair 900D 
MouseAudio
Logitech G400s Senn HD 598 
  hide details  
Reply
X79-GCN
(22 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 3930K 4.5GHz HT GIGABYTE GA-X79-UP4 AMD R9-290X GEil Evo Potenza DDR3 2400MHz CL10 (4x4GB) 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung 840 Pro 120GB EK Supremacy (CPU) NF F12's P/P (360 Rad)  NF A14's (420 Rad)  
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC Chrome Compression Fittings EK RES X3 150 Primochill PremoFlex Advanced LRT Clear 1/2 ID EK-FC (R9 290X) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
EK D5 Vario Top-X  Phobya G-Changer V2 360mm Phobya G-Changer V2 420mm Win 10 x64 Pro 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ XR3501 35" Curved Corsair Vengeance K90 Seasonic X-1250 Gold (v2) Corsair 900D 
MouseAudio
Logitech G400s Senn HD 598 
  hide details  
Reply
post #12865 of 33558
Seems like we have a winner there, nice job thumb.gif
post #12866 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronicfx View Post

I would give sonda5 the credit on direct die

Ahh yes, I couldn't recall where I learned it from. I read it in one of the posts, but I believe you are right, and he also deserves credit for pointing out the EK True Backplate.
Smoke and Mirrors
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3770K  Z77 MPower (MS-7751) MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5/OC Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
Avexir MSI Z77 MPOWER Optimized DDR3 2400 OCZ Vertex 4 VTX4-25SAT3-256G 2.5" 256GB SATA I... Koolance CPU-380I Water Block XSPC EX360 Radiator  
CoolingOSPowerCase
XSPC D5 Dual Bay Reservoir/Pump Combo Windows 7 Corsair AX860i NZXT Switch 810  
  hide details  
Reply
Smoke and Mirrors
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3770K  Z77 MPower (MS-7751) MSI R7950 Twin Frozr 3GD5/OC Intel(R) HD Graphics 4000 
RAMHard DriveCoolingCooling
Avexir MSI Z77 MPOWER Optimized DDR3 2400 OCZ Vertex 4 VTX4-25SAT3-256G 2.5" 256GB SATA I... Koolance CPU-380I Water Block XSPC EX360 Radiator  
CoolingOSPowerCase
XSPC D5 Dual Bay Reservoir/Pump Combo Windows 7 Corsair AX860i NZXT Switch 810  
  hide details  
Reply
post #12867 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post



I'm hardly the expert on "direct die" Valguar and/or Von Dutch here are the real pioneers, I'm just following in their footsteps.

Yes, you must remove the ILM (Independant Loading Mechanism), or "CPU lock-down mechanism" as you call it, or the die will not make contact with the waterblock....This guide will show you how to remove the ILM:
http://www.ekwb.com/shop/EK-IM/EK-IM-3831109855553.pdf.
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronicfx View Post

I would give sonda5 the credit on direct die

First of all, thanks for the response(s) and the highly useful links smile.gif

I'm considering it not so much because of temperatures which are quite good even in extended Intel stress tests on CPU and memory (temps don't even get to 70 C on any core at 5.0 GHZ) but because I have been doing some light benching at 5.3 and want to extend that to run some extended video benches as I am close to HWbot records for the card combo (670ies) I use....

...and I noticed the less than perfect contact patterns of TIM on both the top of the CPU die and the underside of the IHS...obviously, it is an old hat that there are some concave and convex forms which are more exaggerated with some chips, IHS and blocks than others, and eliminating the IHS altogether is one way of eliminating one such variable, even though it is not my preferred choice.

The pressure on the 'naked' CPU die is key also per your posts...as mentioned in another response I wrote earlier, I have read in some Euro sites that some folks have been able to run 'naked die / IHS-free' without removing the ILM...but they too were using a custom back plate and - this might be the difference - had a thin piece of copper the shape of the die in between (it was actually a temp sensor as far as I recall)...another interesting solution involved a slight machining of the water-block's outside rim, so to speak, taking off a few mm so that the water block could rest on the LM but had its 'inner parts' protrude just a bit - but that takes CNC equipment and skills (the same chap in Germany also had a small water jet setup he used to carve himself a water jacket for his GPUs biggrin.gif doesn't everybody ? biggrin.gif )

I think I will first try some lapping and see what the outcome of that is...then I have an extra Coollaboratory 'Alpheos' cooling block I'm not using right now block and as step 2 see if I cannot get it machined per above...I did find a small company here with the right kind of equipment...then try the 'naked die'. BTW, as to the suggestion of learning post codes upfront - great tip ! The board I use does give you a digital display of 'post codes', with a reference sheet in the manual (...as long as I see 'A0' at the end, I'm happy biggrin.gif )

But again, the links MikeG provided (ie pdf) are really helpful, ditto for sonda5's earlier posts on the topic...rep+ smile.gif

Bon weekend
Edited by Joa3d43 - 3/1/13 at 11:21am
post #12868 of 33558
What are delidded k series processors going for? Does it depend on what oc you get with it?
post #12869 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbmayes2000 View Post

What are delidded k series processors going for? Does it depend on what oc you get with it?

Delidded status isn't worth much, really. It's all dependant on the overclock, otherwise you get marketprice without an OC. 3770k's are about $220-250 if you're lucky, and a 3570k is around $190-200
Feed The Dada
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-2600k Asrock Z77e-itx MSI 7970 Samsung 30nm 8GB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 840 250GB SSD H100 w/ 2x SP120 Antec Kuhler 920 w/ 1x SP120 Linux Ubuntu 10.10 
PowerCaseAudioAudio
Seasonic X650 Bitfenix Prodigy E07K HFI-580 
  hide details  
Reply
Feed The Dada
(12 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7-2600k Asrock Z77e-itx MSI 7970 Samsung 30nm 8GB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingOS
Samsung 840 250GB SSD H100 w/ 2x SP120 Antec Kuhler 920 w/ 1x SP120 Linux Ubuntu 10.10 
PowerCaseAudioAudio
Seasonic X650 Bitfenix Prodigy E07K HFI-580 
  hide details  
Reply
post #12870 of 33558
I kind of like the thrill of the silicone lottery.
Ryzen & Vega
(22 items)
 
Wanted: [Wanted] LGA1155 ITX Motherboard
$75 (USD) or best offer
The Spectre
(28 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[AMD] Ryzen R7 1700 w/EK Supremacy Evo AMD [MSI] X370 XPower Gaming Titanium [AMD] Vega Flagship GPU [G.Skill] Trident Z RGB 2x8GB @3000MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
500GB M.2 SSD [WD] 2TB Black HDD [NZXT] AER RGB 120 (x7) [NZXT] AER RGB 140 (x1) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
[Barrow] D5 Heatsink/Reservoir/Heatsink [Barrow] White 1/2"x3/4" Compression Fittings [Primochill] Advance LRT Clear 1/2"x3/4" Tubing [Alphacool] NexXxos XT45 360mm 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
[Alphacool] NexXxos Monsta 240mm [Microsoft] Windows 10 Pro x64 [ASUS] MG279 Freesync 1440p IPS [Razer] BlackWidow X Tournament Edition w/Vorte... 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
[Corsair] RM850i w/custom cables [Phanteks] Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass [Razer] Deathadder Elite [Corsair] MM300 Extended 
AudioOther
(See audio in signature) [Ikea] Tornliden Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
Ryzen & Vega
(22 items)
 
Wanted: [Wanted] LGA1155 ITX Motherboard
$75 (USD) or best offer
The Spectre
(28 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
[AMD] Ryzen R7 1700 w/EK Supremacy Evo AMD [MSI] X370 XPower Gaming Titanium [AMD] Vega Flagship GPU [G.Skill] Trident Z RGB 2x8GB @3000MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
500GB M.2 SSD [WD] 2TB Black HDD [NZXT] AER RGB 120 (x7) [NZXT] AER RGB 140 (x1) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
[Barrow] D5 Heatsink/Reservoir/Heatsink [Barrow] White 1/2"x3/4" Compression Fittings [Primochill] Advance LRT Clear 1/2"x3/4" Tubing [Alphacool] NexXxos XT45 360mm 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
[Alphacool] NexXxos Monsta 240mm [Microsoft] Windows 10 Pro x64 [ASUS] MG279 Freesync 1440p IPS [Razer] BlackWidow X Tournament Edition w/Vorte... 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
[Corsair] RM850i w/custom cables [Phanteks] Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass [Razer] Deathadder Elite [Corsair] MM300 Extended 
AudioOther
(See audio in signature) [Ikea] Tornliden Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Intel CPUs
Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › [Official] Delidded Club / Guide