Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › [Official] Delidded Club / Guide
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 1320

post #13191 of 33652
Quote:
Originally Posted by c2thew View Post

Question. when you set your voltages to fixed, doesn't your computer use more power even when in idle? I've been using offset for a long time and have tried fixed to get a successful stable voltage, however I switched back to offset/enable C1 and c3 states to conserve power when the chip isn't in full use.

Any thoughts on fixed vs offset in terms of energy savings over say a year?

thanks!
I don't understand why someone would stick with fixed voltage once they have found their stable oc. Using offset with the high voltages that come with higher overclocks (that we can get with delidding) not only saves electricity, it should put significantly less wear on your chip. Sending over 1.4v to your chip all the time even though it doesn't need it doesn't make sense to me, plus there is obviously the added heat which that generates.

I know some mobos aren't crazy about offset voltage, but if you can use it I don't know why you wouldn't.
Ivy 5.0
(14 items)
 
Ivy 4.8
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-3770k 5.0 24/7 Maximus V Formula EVGA GTX 690 G.Skill Trident X 2400 (2x8gb) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro 512GB Pioneer BD-RW Swiftech H220 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 x NEC 30" Logitech G15 Corsair AX1200 NZXT Switch 810 
MouseAudio
Logitech G9x Logitech G51 
  hide details  
Reply
Ivy 5.0
(14 items)
 
Ivy 4.8
(15 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7-3770k 5.0 24/7 Maximus V Formula EVGA GTX 690 G.Skill Trident X 2400 (2x8gb) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 Pro 512GB Pioneer BD-RW Swiftech H220 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
2 x NEC 30" Logitech G15 Corsair AX1200 NZXT Switch 810 
MouseAudio
Logitech G9x Logitech G51 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13192 of 33652
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanoldman View Post

I don't understand why someone would stick with fixed voltage once they have found their stable oc. Using offset with the high voltages that come with higher overclocks (that we can get with delidding) not only saves electricity, it should put significantly less wear on your chip. Sending over 1.4v to your chip all the time even though it doesn't need it doesn't make sense to me, plus there is obviously the added heat which that generates.

I know some mobos aren't crazy about offset voltage, but if you can use it I don't know why you wouldn't.

...exactly ! There is a small price to pay re extra v's to push it out of C states and lower multis into full-on mode, but over the course of a day, even as a heavy user with active database and web server software, most of the time my system is doing lighter work, with voltages swinging from 0.972 to 1.144 plus/minus at well over 5 GHz settings...all bets are off when I'm benching, though...all the more reason to conserve power and the chip when I am not
post #13193 of 33652
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanoldman View Post

I don't understand why someone would stick with fixed voltage once they have found their stable oc. Using offset with the high voltages that come with higher overclocks (that we can get with delidding) not only saves electricity, it should put significantly less wear on your chip. Sending over 1.4v to your chip all the time even though it doesn't need it doesn't make sense to me, plus there is obviously the added heat which that generates.

I know some mobos aren't crazy about offset voltage, but if you can use it I don't know why you wouldn't.

Using a fixed voltage doesn't really generate more heat, at idle it isn't using the power like it does under load, so temps aren't really higher. It may save a few pennies in electricity & I can see where it's a benefit to businesses with multiple machines, but for a single PC the difference would be negligible. It is even possible that the constant switching voltage between load & idle could be more wear & tear on a chip using offset than fixed voltage, although I don't know if it does or not.
For me, I just prefer having the fixed voltage & multi for screenshots so I can see what voltage I needed for the clocks when I've done something before, 1600Mhz at under 1V in cpu-z doesn't tell me anything. I can't see fixed voltage making any difference to the lifespan of the chip or the hydro bill over offset though (unless someone plans on keeping a chip for many years, still not sure if it would make a difference then).
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 990x/3930k/3770k/4770k GB x58a-OC/Asus RIVE/x79 gd65/z77 mpower/z77 MV... gtx480s/gtx580s/7970s/680s/Titan Hyper/PSC/BBSE/Hynix/Samsung 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
HDDs/SSDs DVD Air/water/phase/copper pot Windowz 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
samsung 2320 Razer Lycosa ax1200 carboard box 
Mouse
Trackball 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 990x/3930k/3770k/4770k GB x58a-OC/Asus RIVE/x79 gd65/z77 mpower/z77 MV... gtx480s/gtx580s/7970s/680s/Titan Hyper/PSC/BBSE/Hynix/Samsung 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
HDDs/SSDs DVD Air/water/phase/copper pot Windowz 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
samsung 2320 Razer Lycosa ax1200 carboard box 
Mouse
Trackball 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13194 of 33652
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtW 420 View Post

Using a fixed voltage doesn't really generate more heat, at idle it isn't using the power like it does under load, so temps aren't really higher. It may save a few pennies in electricity & I can see where it's a benefit to businesses with multiple machines, but for a single PC the difference would be negligible. It is even possible that the constant switching voltage between load & idle could be more wear & tear on a chip using offset than fixed voltage, although I don't know if it does or not.
For me, I just prefer having the fixed voltage & multi for screenshots so I can see what voltage I needed for the clocks when I've done something before, 1600Mhz at under 1V in cpu-z doesn't tell me anything. I can't see fixed voltage making any difference to the lifespan of the chip or the hydro bill over offset though (unless someone plans on keeping a chip for many years, still not sure if it would make a difference then).

...there is a bit of 'apples and oranges' going on, never mind the difficulty of measuring things accurately - but I just changed my Bios around (no speed step and c states)...using CPUID Hardware Monitor for 'before and after', the average consumption of the CPU 'package' is more than double the watts for non-heavy load (36 watts instead of 15) - and the core temps are about 2 C hotter on average - so yes, these Intel power saving technologies are there to, well, save power.

But what I don't know if this is negated by the extra energy (and potential wear and tear) when coming out of a low state - I guess it depends on what kind of work your computer is doing for MOST OF THE DAY. Ironically, our commercial systems are usually under more load anyways, so with them we are interested in a lower power consumption at full load.

Another factor may be operating systems...I got several near-identical systems next to each other...the one's with Windows 7 64 are constantly fidgeting, while those running Windows Server 2008 are calm...the constant fidgeting of Windows 7 64 may be rather energy inefficient with speed step and C states enabled, given the constant switching required.

Your point about a constant MHz is well taken though when benching and setting a system up (different from day-to-day of the typical user)...when I first joint the 5 GHz club re validation, I had speed-step and C states on...I was basically trying to hunt for / time the 'validate button' for the right moment...very frustrating...since then, when I validate or bench and need to have accurate info to get a vCore and other settings, I leave speed step and c states off.

So in the end, the energy saving technologies do save measurable energy and also heat...but whether it is significant or not or whether other factors such as a nervous OS negate much of it I cannot say..I would like to find out more though whether speed step and c states and the associated higher 'speed-up' juice are in the end better or worse for a chip over, say, 2 years compared to running them constantly but more stably at a higher voltage.
post #13195 of 33652
I'll have to do some testing, never actually tried the power saving features on an OCed ivy, have the wattmeter on now & testing as is, will have to read up on offset.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 990x/3930k/3770k/4770k GB x58a-OC/Asus RIVE/x79 gd65/z77 mpower/z77 MV... gtx480s/gtx580s/7970s/680s/Titan Hyper/PSC/BBSE/Hynix/Samsung 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
HDDs/SSDs DVD Air/water/phase/copper pot Windowz 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
samsung 2320 Razer Lycosa ax1200 carboard box 
Mouse
Trackball 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 990x/3930k/3770k/4770k GB x58a-OC/Asus RIVE/x79 gd65/z77 mpower/z77 MV... gtx480s/gtx580s/7970s/680s/Titan Hyper/PSC/BBSE/Hynix/Samsung 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
HDDs/SSDs DVD Air/water/phase/copper pot Windowz 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
samsung 2320 Razer Lycosa ax1200 carboard box 
Mouse
Trackball 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13196 of 33652
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtW 420 View Post

I'll have to do some testing, never actually tried the power saving features on an OCed ivy, have the wattmeter on now & testing as is, will have to read up on offset.

...should be interesting - what will also make a difference is whether you have just iGPU, or are running a discreet GPU (per our earlier conversation about this)...iGPU adds significantly more on my Ivy's core's when idling (though obviously total system consumption may be less with iGPU). There is also a feature in Asus AI Suite that tells you how much CO2 you saved when kicking in some of their e-saving features, but who knows how they came up with those numbers...and turning on AI Suite usually messes with BIOS settings.

In the meantime, I will do some more tri-SLI benching - pulling something like 800 watts + out of the socket while I am thinking about saving 15 w on c state biggrin.gif
Edited by Joa3d43 - 3/4/13 at 11:05pm
post #13197 of 33652
I didn't notice a difference between fixed and offset overclock at idle for 1.2V based on the power consumption readout on my UPS, however it is not as accurate as what I imagine a wattmeter would be.
Silent but Deadly
(24 items)
 
Main HTPC
(13 items)
 
ASUS X401A
(2 items)
 
Reply
Silent but Deadly
(24 items)
 
Main HTPC
(13 items)
 
ASUS X401A
(2 items)
 
Reply
post #13198 of 33652
Thanks for the pointers, but from what my understanding of offset is that the computer feeds an additional say .025 volts under load when it needs it. So say my computer runs at 4.5ghz @ 1.26 with a +.025 offset. Under load and according to cpu ID i see voltage swings from 1.26 to 1.288 (yes my chip sucks, i'm aware of that). However after i'm done running the tests, my chip drops back down to 1.0v or sometimes to .992 since C states are enabled. My cpu downclocks to 1.6ghz due to C states? or Intel speedstep so that my power usage is lower.

My understanding is that when you use a fixed voltage the chip operates at 4.5ghz 1.25v all the time. So even if you drop down to just browsing the internet, your chip is continuously being fed 1.25v and running at 4.5ghz which translates into higher operating costs. Yes it's probably $5-10 annually, but it's still piece of mind knowing that you aren't always juicing the chip.

Now i suppose my question is this: Is it C states (1 and 3 in the bios) that allow the chip to throttle back down to 1.6ghz or is it intel speedstep which does the down throttling? I guess what i'm trying to do is use a fixed voltage of 1.25 yet have the computer drop back down to 1.6ghz when it's not using any power. But I think that feeding the chip 1.25v is still drawing more power regardless if the chip isn't using it at 4.5 or 1.6ghz.

Hope that makes sense of what i'm trying to do.
BlackSabre
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770k @4.5 Delidded AS Rock z77 Extreme 4 Nvidia 550 TI 1gb Samsung 30nm 16gb (4x4) 2000 10-10-10-28 1T 1.4... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Kingston Hyper 3k 120gb SSD LG Dvd burner 24x Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO Windows 8 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Shimian QH270 Lite 27" logitech mk710 wireless keyboard and mouse combo Antec BP550 Plus Modular PSU Antec 302 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
logitech mk710 wireless keyboard and mouse combo Gel mousepad Klipsh Promedia 2.1 Plantronics gamecom 780 headset 
OtherOther
Logitech c920 webcam seagate 3tb barracuda hard drives x 2 
  hide details  
Reply
BlackSabre
(18 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770k @4.5 Delidded AS Rock z77 Extreme 4 Nvidia 550 TI 1gb Samsung 30nm 16gb (4x4) 2000 10-10-10-28 1T 1.4... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Kingston Hyper 3k 120gb SSD LG Dvd burner 24x Coolermaster Hyper 212 EVO Windows 8 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Shimian QH270 Lite 27" logitech mk710 wireless keyboard and mouse combo Antec BP550 Plus Modular PSU Antec 302 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
logitech mk710 wireless keyboard and mouse combo Gel mousepad Klipsh Promedia 2.1 Plantronics gamecom 780 headset 
OtherOther
Logitech c920 webcam seagate 3tb barracuda hard drives x 2 
  hide details  
Reply
post #13199 of 33652
Quote:
Originally Posted by c2thew View Post

Thanks for the pointers, but from what my understanding of offset is that the computer feeds an additional say .025 volts under load when it needs it. So say my computer runs at 4.5ghz @ 1.26 with a +.025 offset. Under load and according to cpu ID i see voltage swings from 1.26 to 1.288 (yes my chip sucks, i'm aware of that). However after i'm done running the tests, my chip drops back down to 1.0v or sometimes to .992 since C states are enabled. My cpu downclocks to 1.6ghz due to C states? or Intel speedstep so that my power usage is lower.

My understanding is that when you use a fixed voltage the chip operates at 4.5ghz 1.25v all the time. So even if you drop down to just browsing the internet, your chip is continuously being fed 1.25v and running at 4.5ghz which translates into higher operating costs. Yes it's probably $5-10 annually, but it's still piece of mind knowing that you aren't always juicing the chip.

Now i suppose my question is this: Is it C states (1 and 3 in the bios) that allow the chip to throttle back down to 1.6ghz or is it intel speedstep which does the down throttling? I guess what i'm trying to do is use a fixed voltage of 1.25 yet have the computer drop back down to 1.6ghz when it's not using any power. But I think that feeding the chip 1.25v is still drawing more power regardless if the chip isn't using it at 4.5 or 1.6ghz.

Hope that makes sense of what i'm trying to do.

...my brain is hurting and I just did two 3dM11 tri-SLI benches, so I'm not really saving very much energy at all biggrin.gif ...but my tentative understanding is that the 1600MHz you see is Intel speed-step - it cuts the multiplier...sort of the opposite of turbo...c-states on the other hand relate to various levels of sleep mode...from full sleep (though not 'off') to 'parking' cores and threads...you can see that sometimes in Windows resource manager re. "parked cores"...and there are various partial sleep modes in-between
post #13200 of 33652
should i heat up my cpu using prime before delidding ?! do you guys recommend this ? will this loosen up the adhesive intel used
Edited by invincible20xx - 3/5/13 at 12:48am
Zero Ex 2
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K De-Lidded w/CLU @ 4.6 GHz ASUS Z77 TUF Sabertooth 2x Asus GTX 1080 Strix 8GB @ 2100/11000 MHZ SLI 2x Kingston Hyper-X Beast 8GB DDR3 @ 2200 MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD Western Digital 60EZRX 6TB 5400RPM HDD Samsung SH-S203N 20X LightScribe DVD RW Corsair H100i + 4x CM 120mm @ Push/Pull 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
5x CM 120mm + 1x CM 230mm + 1x NZXT 140mm Windows 10 x64 Samsung UA50JS7200R 50'' 4K SUHD HDR Smart TV Gigabyte Aivia Osmium 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-Series Gold 850W Cooler Master HAF 932 Gigabyte Aivia Krypton CM Storm Speed-RX S 
AudioAudioAudioOther
Creative SB X-FI Titanium Fatality Pro Edifier S760D 5.1 Dolby Digital Sound System Corsair Vengeance 2100 Wireless 7.1 Gaming Headset Microsoft Xbox 360 Wireless Gamepad + Receiver 
Other
MSI Star PCI-E USB 3.0 Hub  
  hide details  
Reply
Zero Ex 2
(21 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 3770K De-Lidded w/CLU @ 4.6 GHz ASUS Z77 TUF Sabertooth 2x Asus GTX 1080 Strix 8GB @ 2100/11000 MHZ SLI 2x Kingston Hyper-X Beast 8GB DDR3 @ 2200 MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD Western Digital 60EZRX 6TB 5400RPM HDD Samsung SH-S203N 20X LightScribe DVD RW Corsair H100i + 4x CM 120mm @ Push/Pull 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
5x CM 120mm + 1x CM 230mm + 1x NZXT 140mm Windows 10 x64 Samsung UA50JS7200R 50'' 4K SUHD HDR Smart TV Gigabyte Aivia Osmium 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Seasonic X-Series Gold 850W Cooler Master HAF 932 Gigabyte Aivia Krypton CM Storm Speed-RX S 
AudioAudioAudioOther
Creative SB X-FI Titanium Fatality Pro Edifier S760D 5.1 Dolby Digital Sound System Corsair Vengeance 2100 Wireless 7.1 Gaming Headset Microsoft Xbox 360 Wireless Gamepad + Receiver 
Other
MSI Star PCI-E USB 3.0 Hub  
  hide details  
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Intel CPUs
Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › [Official] Delidded Club / Guide