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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 1395

post #13941 of 33849
ordered my CLP...now contemplating lapping the thing., I have fine grit and rough grit sanding materials from my headlight cleaning kit....crafty?
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post #13942 of 33849
Lap it if it works...otherwise make a shiny keychain with the ihs that reads 3770k. No point in having one for bragging rights if you can't read the model from it.
post #13943 of 33849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post

So, I delidded my good chip tonight. This is my second delidding. The first one had a few hits on the pcb but lived. It wasn't a good chip to begin with, and still isn't. But, nothing ventured nothing gained right? After cleaning the good chip, there seems do be a small nick on the bottom corner. Don't know how I did it, and I'm not really worried about it. Anyways, I have high hopes for this chip. I plan on holding on to this set- up for at least the next year, maybe more. I plan on using CLPro on the dye and the IHC. My question is, should I take the time to Lap the IHC, or will the CLPro take care of it?

Thanks for looking

Good job!
post #13944 of 33849
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonicX View Post

Stress-test_002 no BCLK overclock has begun

1. Test trials continue on my render rig using the Ivy Bridge validated AIDA64 System Stability Test
2. Fans will be set 30-60 [40%power ate 30* scaling to reach full 100% fan power at 60*
3. MOW techniques will not be implimented (MOW = Minnesota Open Window)
4. The Case will remain stationary with both side panels off
5. the OC settings have been changed in BIOS to:
senerio B. Core speed 4900 Mz x49.0 , Bus speed 100 MHz Core Voltage 1.410 Offset Enabled

pre-test
1. cinebench .................pass 9.78 (down from senerio A 9.90)
2. intel burn test................ success

Here's what I've learned from member posting concerning raising the BCLK
1. 100.1- 104.9 is a moderately raised BCLK and over 105 is more extreme dangerous [DEPENDING ON THE TEMP CONDITIONS AND COMPONENTS as with all OCs]
2. It is a viable option for benchmarking and short tests but should be avoided for Long tests because it is less stable.


The test is currently a the 1 hour mark for the BCLK @ 100 x 49 right now.



stay tuned for more updates! stay tuned! get it? Ha! I kill me.

Snorkle.gif Official Corsair Hydro Series Club Snorkle.gif
5.5GHz Ivy 3770K
devil.gifIF IT AINT BROKE THEN YOU DIDN'T OVERCLOCK IT ENOUGHTdevil.gif
just kidding

Stress-Test_002 Has exceeded senerio A by one hour at 5:04:30 hours AIDA64 Stability Test: PASSED.
Im going to terminate the phase 1 of the EXPERIMENT

1. Since i was testing stability and the benchmark with Core speed 4897.8 Mz x47.0 , Bus Speed 104.21 MHz Core Voltage 1.410 Offset Enabled reported: 3/14/2013/ 6:35:37 AM - WARNING: HARDWARE FAILURE DETECTED! TEST STOPPED

2. and senerio B. Core speed 4900 Mz x49.0 , Bus speed 100 MHz Core Voltage 1.410 Offset Enabled exceeded this time by 1 hour and was manually terminated.

the hypothesis of: "Raising the BCLK instead of the multiplier is less stable for extended time-frame benchmarking" is supported.


I do not know what "HARDWARE FAILURE DETECTED" means exactly.

i do know exactly what "TEST STOPPED"

Practical:
1. I see why use of BCLK Frequency increases are undesirable and will limit the use of this adjustment.
2. If this adjustment is dialed into the mix i should be minimized and use for purpose of achieving frequencies between the hundereds numerical place of MHz i.e. 3900, 4400, 5100, also expressed as the Tenths place of GHz i.e. 3.5, 4.2, 5.5
3. Doing some quick math I see no reason to raise the BCLK on ivy bridge above 102.1 because at this point it achieves the equivilant of the next multiplier and then goes back to 100.0
3b. example: 49x multiplier with a BClk of 102 is 4998 and so it is pointless to go higher with the BCLK when It simple starts over at 50x 100.0
4. if i liked the speed, voltages, and temps at a clock between the pillar Multipliers say 4948 you obviously cannot achieve this with a bclk of 100.0 so in that case I would test it with some worst case senerio artaficial workload software like aida64, cinebench, Intel Burn Test, what have you to get a quick Idea if its good-to-go. but what really maters is the app I am using, Photoshop, After Effects, Cinema 4d, GRID, Battlefield3, Folding ect. is it stable. If It is I see no reason why not. OC that last ounce of performance.

5. I repeat my main discovery: NO NEED TO GO ABOVE 102 WITH THE IVY BRIDGE.
6. I will probably be Operating my Render Rig at Core speed 4900 Mz x49.0 , Bus speed 100 MHz Core Voltage. If I render with all 8 threads.

Thanks to all the OCN Crewmen!
   
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post #13945 of 33849
Thanks for sharing man!
post #13946 of 33849
Quote:
TonicX wrote...
...
3. Doing some quick math I see no reason to raise the BCLK on ivy bridge above 102.1 because at this point it achieves the equivilant of the next multiplier and then goes back to 100.0
3b. example: 49x multiplier with a BClk of 102 is 4998 and so it is pointless to go higher with the BCLK when It simple starts over at 50x 100.0
4. if i liked the speed, voltages, and temps at a clock between the pillar Multipliers say 4948 you obviously cannot achieve this with a bclk of 100.0 so in that case I would test it with some worst case senerio artaficial workload software like aida64, cinebench, Intel Burn Test, what have you to get a quick Idea if its good-to-go. but what really maters is the app I am using, Photoshop, After Effects, Cinema 4d, GRID, Battlefield3, Folding ect. is it stable. If It is I see no reason why not. OC that last ounce of performance.
5. I repeat my main discovery: NO NEED TO GO ABOVE 102 WITH THE IVY BRIDGE.
6. I will probably be Operating my Render Rig at Core speed 4900 Mz x49.0 , Bus speed 100 MHz Core Voltage. If I render with all 8 threads.

Thanks to all the OCN Crewmen!

...Kudos for the test...BCLK can be useful under CERTAIN circumstances (more later), and I trust you saw FtW 420's multiple posts on the subject...but really, its primary use comes when you are 'out of multipliers' and the only other way to increase speed by definition is BCLK...out of multipliers either means the extreme cooling folks (maxed with Ivy at 63 multi), or 'us' when you are at your max 'sustainable' multi...say for the sake of argument 5 giggles...yet your CPU 'wall' (huge jump re required delta in vCore) won't occur until 5040 or so...that is when you would use a small BCLK step-up.

I have run many machines at a non-100 BCLK for years on end...and also the latest is a 3770 non-K which is multiplier limited and part of a VM at close 4.6 GHz since last October as a localhost server w/various databases and such using BCLK + 6.xx...no problems in stability and such...even when compared to two more that are part of the same VM that run at 4.3 GHz

BUT: When setting it up, all the stability testing had to be redone because what works re memory timing etc @ 100 BCLK may actually not be stable at 104 or so...everything has to be redone with a 'non-100' setting, usually by picking a fairly low multi / CPU GHz speed well below the known max of the CPU, then increasing BCLK in 0.5 steps or so...testing, testing, testing...but again, great work thumb.gif
post #13947 of 33849
This is OCN, there is no such thing as "no need to go above 102.1".

104x50 is always faster than 102x51, even if it is only by little wink.gif
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post #13948 of 33849
Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post

So, I delidded my good chip tonight. This is my second delidding. The first one had a few hits on the pcb but lived. It wasn't a good chip to begin with, and still isn't. But, nothing ventured nothing gained right? After cleaning the good chip, there seems do be a small nick on the bottom corner. Don't know how I did it, and I'm not really worried about it. Anyways, I have high hopes for this chip. I plan on holding on to this set- up for at least the next year, maybe more. I plan on using CLPro on the dye and the IHC. My question is, should I take the time to Lap the IHC, or will the CLPro take care of it?

Thanks for looking

The reason we use Thermal paste is because the top of the cpu cover and the bottom of the heatsink are not perfectly flat and smooth. How to correct that and use minimal Thermal Paste is the objective.
Joa3D43 address the shape of your heatsink, If it is flat like my corsair H60 the you can greatly increase surface to surface contact by lapping the IHS. I wrapped sand paper around a super-flat piece of beveled glass see: http://www.overclock.net/t/1313179/official-delidded-ivy-bridge-club/13520#post_19492508 This took me almost an hour but i went all the way to flat cooper removing the nickle plating from the entire top surface.

I Lapped the IHS completely flat top and bottom starting with 360 and 400 then 800 finally 1600 sandpaper. I think i could have gone to 2500 or 3000 grit.
btw dont lap the die it is silicon(Glass) or underside of the cover.(i dont see how to make the flat and it would only degrade(scratch) the smooth metal.

personally i think a good lap job is essential to making the COOL LABORATORY ULTRA fill in the gap between the cpu and the heatsink.

You can find fine grit sandpaper at home improvement stores, hardware store, woodworking store like ROCKLER woodworking.

whip the thing of with an achohol swab after, and i sure your alreadly know about contaminates and static shock dangers.

take your time and i sure you'll do GREAT!
devil.gif"Yeah, my name is Ivy and I get hot."devil.gif
   
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post #13949 of 33849
Great job TonicX - 2 reps from me for the tests.
The reason one would go beyond that for BCLK is simple: You would want more for the PCI-E slots - although CPU might not increase, GPU might do indeed.
Regardless, as I would have thought, pointless going over unless you are going to bench.
post #13950 of 33849
In order for new people to not make mistakes in this area I feel compelled to post despite my disappointment with a couple members. Regulars please feel free to ignore the following.

Do not lap your IHS, I will say this again, do not lap your IHS. Having obtained information directly from the designer of a current cold plate for a cooler, it is illogical to lap your IHS without significant testing before doing so.

Most cold plate manufactures assume, and rightly so, that your IHS is slightly concave. They therefore make their cold plates slightly convex in order to match better. After careful testing I have confirmed that the information I previously posted here is correct. The clamping mechanism of your mobo slightly changes the shape of your IHS when installed.

Unless you plan on lapping your IHS while it is installed in your mobo, you have a reasonably high probability of make it fit worse, not better with your cold plate. This is easy to confirm if you want to take the time. Take you mobo out of the case, get a perfectly flat edged piece of metal or razor and a flashlight. Measure the shape of your IHS both in and out of the mobo. Normally these will be slightly different.

Furthermore, if you did manage to somehow make your IHS perfectly flat while installed in the mobo, you would then have to lap your cold plate as well because it is most likely not flat. You immediately void your warranty on most coolers by doing so.

Now before some of you throw your normal hissy fits, remember that I wrote that you should not lap before testing, I did not write no one should lap ever. If you measure your IHS while clamped down in the mobo and it turns out to be convex or noticeably twisted in some way, then lapping may help. This would be an unusual circumstance though.

I spent an entire day installing and reinstalling my H100i with a lapped IHS. It took longer than it should have but I finally found the optimal way to install it, and it was in direct contradiction to the standard instructions. From all my testing I determined that I would have been better off not lapping the IHS, but I did not know this information when I did. I posted it all in here awhile back. You can look and see that I commented at the time how surprised I was that lapping did not help my temps. That led me to do some research into why.

Furthermore, my testing showed that despite my best efforts it is impossible to place the delidded IHS in exactly the same position on the die/pcb every time. These slight variations in the positioning of an IHS can further affect the fit with your cooler because of the force exerted by the clamping mechanism.

Please note that I have a lapped IHS and I have made it work, so this is not a huge deal. However I would have been slightly better off never doing so, and I would hate to see anyone new make the same mistake without directly testing if lapping will help. Hope that helps any new people here.
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