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post #18111 of 33558
@justinanoldman

I do not have AS5

I could use the Gelied GC Extreme or the Antec Diamond that is what I have not including the small box full of cheaper crap TIMs.

Could the problem be that I used RTV to glue the die back on? I used the smallest amount I just kind of put a thin film on the corners with a glove. Nothing compared to what it had from the factory BUT I do understand that the IHS is now lower or closer to the chip now because the LM is so much thinner than the original TIM.

If I had a flat water block I would just direct mount the water block to the DIE LOL but I know for a fact my waterblock is convex the machinist did it on purpose.
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post #18112 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

@justinanoldman

I do not have AS5

I could use the Gelied GC Extreme or the Antec Diamond that is what I have not including the small box full of cheaper crap TIMs.

Could the problem be that I used RTV to glue the die back on? I used the smallest amount I just kind of put a thin film on the corners with a glove. Nothing compared to what it had from the factory BUT I do understand that the IHS is now lower or closer to the chip now because the LM is so much thinner than the original TIM.

If I had a flat water block I would just direct mount the water block to the DIE LOL but I know for a fact my waterblock is convex the machinist did it on purpose.

Koolance 380i is convex with the jet plate pushing the center out. Still getting fantastic temps with direct die.

It's possible you put too much RTV on, but who can tell? Intel applies .3mm or less. You could try the IHS without the RTV and seeing if temps improve.
post #18113 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

@justinanoldman

I do not have AS5

I could use the Gelied GC Extreme or the Antec Diamond that is what I have not including the small box full of cheaper crap TIMs.

Could the problem be that I used RTV to glue the die back on? I used the smallest amount I just kind of put a thin film on the corners with a glove. Nothing compared to what it had from the factory BUT I do understand that the IHS is now lower or closer to the chip now because the LM is so much thinner than the original TIM.

If I had a flat water block I would just direct mount the water block to the DIE LOL but I know for a fact my waterblock is convex the machinist did it on purpose.
You don’t need AS5, I was just suggesting that since it is so easy to use and clean up. Use whatever TIM you have where you can use a drop in the middle or a thin line, not something you spread. Then mount the cooler, test temps, take the cooler off and takes pics of both surfaces.

Your attempt to glue the IHS back to the pcb could definitely be the problem. Just my guess, but I would suggest undoing everything you did and start over. Undo the glue that you did then apply the CLU to the die and underside again, and take pics. Don’t glue the IHS back on, since that is an unknown problem factor. Just use a finger to firmly press down on the IHS when you clamp it into the mobo.

The die is not that big, you can try direct to die if your mounting hardware allows, but it is not easy or without risk.
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post #18114 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valgaur View Post

it's not actually, my other Grandfather passed away this morning, this stress is gonna kill me with finals.... first final is in 3 days. ugh

...my condolences on your loss...and a 'steady ledge' to guide you through your finals at this time of grief
post #18115 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

So should I do a straight edge check on the top of the IHS (I am guessing we are talking about the top)?

If I screwed up the internal application I would have seen an increase in temps or odd temps on certain cores right? They all went down and they all got closer just not a big difference at all.
...


The only good news from this de-lid is before I could not get the PWM to not do this in gaming even at 4.0GHz and at least now I have gotten it to stop doing it too much at 4.4GHz and 1.92v I do not know if I can go lower I am taking it down a few steps at a time.


If these temps sound "decent" or maybe "almost average" then I will be "happy" with my work. If not then I would like to see some change.

In games the GPU never goes above 45c so again my guess is the water isn't even getting that warm.

...I am on the road w/my laptop so my responses are not that speedy right now...

1.) It really does sound like everything (incl. die-to-IHS) is ok but the IHS to water-block mount...some blocks can only be mounted one/two way(s) (check images of sample systems in Google re your block), but others can be rotated by 45 or 90 degrees - really just searching for the 'correct' fit between the concave IHS and convex block...I have a monster loop myself (over 13 feet of tubes, 2 pumps 3 rads etc) and I know that rotating stuff isn't easy...may be take a rad out of its fixed mount just to see if you can rotate without having to drain it on a temp basis.

2.) Not clear if I understood you correctly, but are you using 1.92v vCore for 4.4 GHz ? ...If so, I strongly recommend to bring that down to 1.5 or lower quickly

...from what you have described, everything seems to check out other than the IHS to water-block zone. I hope you find the problem smile.gif
post #18116 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joa3d43 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

So should I do a straight edge check on the top of the IHS (I am guessing we are talking about the top)?

If I screwed up the internal application I would have seen an increase in temps or odd temps on certain cores right? They all went down and they all got closer just not a big difference at all.
...


The only good news from this de-lid is before I could not get the PWM to not do this in gaming even at 4.0GHz and at least now I have gotten it to stop doing it too much at 4.4GHz and 1.92v I do not know if I can go lower I am taking it down a few steps at a time.


If these temps sound "decent" or maybe "almost average" then I will be "happy" with my work. If not then I would like to see some change.

In games the GPU never goes above 45c so again my guess is the water isn't even getting that warm.

...I am on the road w/my laptop so my responses are not that speedy right now...

1.) It really does sound like everything (incl. die-to-IHS) is ok but the IHS to water-block mount...some blocks can only be mounted one/two way(s) (check images of sample systems in Google re your block), but others can be rotated by 45 or 90 degrees - really just searching for the 'correct' fit between the concave IHS and convex block...I have a monster loop myself (over 13 feet of tubes, 2 pumps 3 rads etc) and I know that rotating stuff isn't easy...may be take a rad out of its fixed mount just to see if you can rotate without having to drain it on a temp basis.

2.) Not clear if I understood you correctly, but are you using 1.92v vCore for 4.4 GHz ? ...If so, I strongly recommend to bring that down to 1.5 or lower quickly

...from what you have described, everything seems to check out other than the IHS to water-block zone. I hope you find the problem smile.gif

Thank you for your response... No I am using 1.192-1.200 sorry for the typo smile.gif

This is my problem... I squeezed in a 480 rad, a 120 rad, the water block, the GPU water block and the pump all into a tiny area and did it with maybe 2 to 2.5FT of tubing... So there isn't going to be any moving of anything LOL!!! The CPU Block moves just enough to get it off the posts so I can remove the CPU smile.gif the fill line on the left is longer than all the actual loops tubes put together I think!



I will have to contact Martin from MartinsLiquidLab and see if he can advise me on weather or not the block is rotatable. If it is domed then I would expect it to be rotatable if it is more of an arch than I could understand if the block could only be inserted one way or a 180 degree rotation.

I also am worried that it is possible that the convex profile is designed more for a 3900 series processor... BUT!!! I am not big on low quantity production and one off items... I would not have bought this if it where not that I was buying it from Martin and he spoke highly of it.

I did my own comparisons of this block against my Swiftech HD, Swiftech Apogee XT Extreme, and my XSPC blocks and felt that this block performed as well or better AND that temps would not change at any PWM between 20 and 100 except that at 100 the temps would rise after a few hours from the heat dump. All those observations where on a ice cold 2500K

The problem with having something that not many people have is I have to do all the trial and error myself I can not learn from others mistakes smile.gif

Plus I think I honestly prefer perfectly flat because then I can just lap the proc and be done with it. With this block if I lap the proc using flat glass as the lapping profile it would only make it worse.

So I am going to try to get some info on the convex profile and if you are correct I will just need to change out some fittings and cut some new hose!
Edited by givmedew - 5/4/13 at 12:55pm
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post #18117 of 33558
Your system looks beautiful.
But yes resitting, re-doing is a huge part in de-lidding.
A little trial and error goes a long way here.
post #18118 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Thank you for your response... No I am using 1.192-1.200 sorry for the typo smile.gif

This is my problem... I squeezed in a 480 rad, a 120 rad, the water block, the GPU water block and the pump all into a tiny area and did it with maybe 2 to 2.5FT of tubing... So there isn't going to be any moving of anything LOL!!! The CPU Block moves just enough to get it off the posts so I can remove the CPU smile.gif the fill line on the left is longer than all the actual loops tubes put together I think!



I will have to contact Martin from MartinsLiquidLab and see if he can advise me on weather or not the block is rotatable. If it is domed then I would expect it to be rotatable if it is more of an arch than I could understand if the block could only be inserted one way or a 180 degree rotation.

I also am worried that it is possible that the convex profile is designed more for a 3900 series processor... BUT!!! I am not big on low quantity production and one off items... I would not have bought this if it where not that I was buying it from Martin and he spoke highly of it.

I did my own comparisons of this block against my Swiftech HD, Swiftech Apogee XT Extreme, and my XSPC blocks and felt that this block performed as well or better AND that temps would not change at any PWM between 20 and 100 except that at 100 the temps would rise after a few hours from the heat dump. All those observations where on a ice cold 2500K

The problem with having something that not many people have is I have to do all the trial and error myself I can not learn from others mistakes smile.gif

Plus I think I honestly prefer perfectly flat because then I can just lap the proc and be done with it. With this block if I lap the proc using flat glass as the lapping profile it would only make it worse.

So I am going to try to get some info on the convex profile and if you are correct I will just need to change out some fittings and cut some new hose!

...until you can contact the supplier re. the fit between concave and convex shapes, I would suggest that you use MX4 'as a test' if you can...just use a little bit more than you normally would and then tighten down the w-block good...this is what I ended up doing with my 3970X after I double-confirmed that the block was in the correct position...the IHS on the 3970X was never removed (non-delidable) and I did not want to lap a $1k+ brand new processor...the MX4 'good helping' application (approx 110-115 % of the 'line+pea' method) filled all the spaces without starting to insulate it and thus block heat transfer...as I said, the only real test you can run right now without checking with the supplier or draining your w-c loop...hope it works out !!! smile.gif
post #18119 of 33558
Ok... well I contacted the next best thing to the designer which is the guy who the designer trusted the most to test it. MartinLiquidLabs but looking at Martin's site I saw this...



The block in that picture is my block as in literally the same unit just it was given to me with a black and a white spider and a black and a white center I chose to go with white and white.

As you can see it is faced in a different direction...

SOOOOOOOO

I am going to go a head and make this change unless I get an email back first saying that it is unnecessary.

I wanted to put my 4000RPM PWM fans back in and wanted to install some nice looking TFC XTender Shrouds I have laying around so I guess this is the excuse to do all that. I also wanted to seal up the gaps between fans, shrouds and rads with RTV so this will be a project for sure.

I am probably going to put it off for a few days because there are probably some other changes I want to make and I want to do it all at once... Last time I did this it took over 10HRs because I kept building and disassembling the set up till it was absolutely the best I layout I could get to work.


Thanks for the help and wish me luck!
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post #18120 of 33558
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Ok... well I contacted the next best thing to the designer which is the guy who the designer trusted the most to test it. MartinLiquidLabs but looking at Martin's site I saw this...



The block in that picture is my block as in literally the same unit just it was given to me with a black and a white spider and a black and a white center I chose to go with white and white.

As you can see it is faced in a different direction...

SOOOOOOOO

I am going to go a head and make this change unless I get an email back first saying that it is unnecessary.

I wanted to put my 4000RPM PWM fans back in and wanted to install some nice looking TFC XTender Shrouds I have laying around so I guess this is the excuse to do all that. I also wanted to seal up the gaps between fans, shrouds and rads with RTV so this will be a project for sure.

I am probably going to put it off for a few days because there are probably some other changes I want to make and I want to do it all at once... Last time I did this it took over 10HRs because I kept building and disassembling the set up till it was absolutely the best I layout I could get to work.


Thanks for the help and wish me luck!

...yup, in the 2nd pic the w-c block it is definitely rotated by 45 degrees / quarter turn. That makes all the difference with concave / convex shapes...and if all else fails, lapping BOTH the IHS and the w-c block will also get you there...as a last resort.

...good to take your time with w-c custom loops...I didn't on my first custom loop and ended up redoing it biggrin.gif ...now I have gone mad and built one which is siamesing two ROG systems (one loop) and without any case...ahh, the space... smile.gif I can exchange the w-c blocks between the two (3770K, 3970X) in less than 10 min without draining the system...in other words: Be careful that you don't get the 'going mad' bug as you build up what looks like a very nice system in your pic biggrin.gif

Good Luck ! thumb.gif
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