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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 1822

post #18211 of 33688
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtW 420 View Post

Just see today there is a new Ice Storm Extreme bench in the latest version of 3dmark, Joa3d43 saw it earlier & has been building on his trophy collection



Linked the 1.1 version download in here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1389319/ice-storm-extreme/0_50

4 global world records for Joa3d43 (nice!), the bar has been set, let the benching begin!

...copper, silver and gold...setting the siamese twins up for record performance; testing and tips

...just finished a week or so of trying out my new (and still somewhat incomplete) 'Siamese Twins' system by competing for some world records in both Hardware class and also outright open classes (...anything goes)...

...A very BIG thanks to FtW who has been helping me with setup info...thanks also to others here at 'delid' who contributed useful info... I compete for the OCN team in global competitions, but 'delid' is where I picked up a lot of useful info...In turn, I describe some of the ways I build and set up the systems which have proven to be both reliable and very fast- hopefully, others will be able to pick up some tricks of the trade just as I did from folks here.



The Performance numbers sonic.gif

7 outright world records, 34 gold cups in hardware class (including single GPU, SLI, Tri-SLI and Quad-SLI)...so meet the Siamese twins behind these numbers...



For hardware...

1.) Asus Maximus V Extreme with a delidded 3770K at speeds well > 5 GHz (VID@ 5GHz = 1.271)
2.) Asus Rampage IV Extreme with a 'standard'3970X at speeds of well > 5 GHz (VID@5GHz 1.346)
Warning: Spoiler - Hardware (Click to show)
There are up to 5 vid cards (4x Asus GTX 670, 1x Gigabyte GTX 670) between the two machines, all of the GPUs being air-cooled.

The two CPUs share a common ('siamesed') water cooling system that includes a total of 3 rads / over 900 mm by 60 mm, two MPC 655 pumps and 16x 120 mm Noctua / In-Win fans, 2x 140 / 30mm 3w server 3k rpm fans, and a couple of 200 mm CoolerMaster fans. Water-blocks are a Koolance 370i for the Ivy and an EK Supremacy for the Sandy-E. A tip most of you likely already know: Install separate fans to cool the two VRM areas per mobo...

This shared w-c loop has more than 13 feet of PrimoChill Advanced LRT 1/2 - 3/4 in tubes (9 pieces), and two reservoirs, all topped up by EK fluids....bottom line: You can never have enough cooling, especially as the weather is getting warmer, you game for hours or compete in global benching ! The 'siamese twin' loop has proven more than enough to withstand both system running at full tilt, which comes out to more than 600 watts.

The twins are also connected and can control each other (ie speed, voltages etc) via the special ROG-Connect link and also share several hard drives via an internal network.

Setup - part 1

...these are daily-grind machines...the only thing different for world record runs are the separate boot drives (SSDs) I use with relatively 'clean and small' Windows 7 / 64 installs on them...As this is part of a bigger "deskputer" build that will also include Haswell / Ivy-E down the line, this is 'free form' as in no case...eventually, all this will be part of a custom acrylic and metal 'thing' : -) ...
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The Ivy was delidded back in early February using the razor method (w/blood and all :-) )...I took the assembly apart several more times as the IHS was very concave...recently, I lapped both the inside and outside of the IHS, starting w/600 grid paper and finishing off w/2000 grid paper...I know I got it right because on several occasions, the 4 cores show IDENTICAL temps at idle, usually at or just 1 C above ambient...

...the Ivy die and IHS top both have a thin layer of Coollaboratory 'Ultra' on it...combined with the other changes of a strong custom loop per above, temps at 5 GHz as a standard measurement dropped by over 35 C compared to the 'pre-delid' days w/MX4 on the IHS...and more compared to the fresh 'out-of-the-box' days...back then my first step was to add a Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme closed-loop...which I found to be a very strong performer up to about 4.9 GHz...then MX4 replaced MX 2,leading to a further drop of about 4 C back then in the pre-delid days. I prefer MX 4 when I can not use liquid metals such as Coollaboratory ultra for whatever reason.


The 3970X Sandy-E had an even more concave IHS...I tried Coollaboratory Ultra, but while temps were 'ok' I knew that there was much more possible if I could deal with the hollow space created by the concavity of the IHS / convexity of the block...I substituted a good helping of MX4 (line-and-pea method at '115%') and that dropped temps of the 3970X by over 20 C...

...eventually, I might go back and lap both the IHS and the water block of the 3970X...speaking of which, I have found that with regular nickel coated copper (which obviously would be taken off by lapping), Coollaboratory Ultra left no marks that couldn't be cleaned up just with Isopropanol, and even the writing of the laser-edged CPU markings by Intel stayed intact - though the caveat is that the longest I had Coollaboratory Ultra 'undisturbed' on an IHS / block was just under two months.

Setup - part 2
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
There are plenty of good guides for IVY and Sandy-E for Asus, ASRock, Gigabyte et al on this and other sites...For basic setup of Asus boards in OC, I start with ROG.Asus.com and then look at other guides - many of which seem to be quite similar and relating back to 'Sin0822's ' original guide.

The one area where I differ from most regular guides relates to speeds above 5 GHz...there, you have to watch both the frequency and setting of CPU and DRAM phases - I use 'extreme' instead of 'optimal above 5 GHz and different frequencies from the 'standard guides'.

The same holds for running fast memory (ie above DDR2 2400) and/or BCLK above 101.5. I plan to put together a full 'high performance setup' guide in the upcoming build-log of the Siamese Twins which I'll post as a separate thread - and am in the process of recruiting some OC 'cool hands' biggrin.gif

....since I also head a software firm that builds its own commercial units that run global clients serving literally tens of millions of users, 'high performance' guides will be tempered with 'reliability' factors....no sense going fast if it only lasts for a block smile.gif

While I have other machines that are set up using 'the traditional BIOS method' with / without offset, the two record breaking machines here actually use 2 modules of the Asus AI Suite II extensively...the Turbo-V for CPU multi, BCLK and all related voltages, and FanExpert-II to control fan speeds...put differently, the base BIOS settings are set in the BIOS, but for 4.7 GHz, with Intel SpeedStep and C sleep states all on...this is a bit unusual according to some, but not others - besides, per record summary, it 'works for me'.

The main advantage I see is that I can use the basic setup for various daily grind tasks and even gaming...but with a few mouse clicks go past 5.2 GHz without stressing the CPUs more than they have to be I(because 5+ GHz on a CPU rated for 3.5/4 GHz is stressful, no matter what) ... I have used AI Suite II extensively now for system control for s.th. like 8 months and really like it (the latest version that is, the earlier ones were a bit 'off')...noting also that since digital controls now govern CPU, DRAM and VRMs on the mobo, the difference between a straight 'old school' BIOS setup and a more modern approach via Asus AI Suite is much less than folks think...

...a BIOS is also software (just low-level machine language), and the latest BIOS and their windows-based control software counterparts talk to each other anyways...so using one really is not unlike using the other. In the end, Asus AI Suite II for CPU multi, BCLK and related voltage control is just VERY convenient and helps dial in a system much quicker....though if you do not plan to run all out but are just looking for a sustainable 24/7 speed for video-intensive applications, the more permanent BIOS method might suit you better....on all other machines in my immediate environment where speed does not change, I use the traditional BIOS method.

Finally, while Asus AI Suite II certainly has become a great tool, I strongly advise against using 'CPU level up' as that will not give you the max overclock and also change parameters unbeknownst to you...there is no substitute for the trial and error method to find the max speed / vCore et al other than through trial, error and a lot of testing.

...and if you reach the limits and start to crash a lot / get BSODs, also make sure to reboot once with a full Win7 load WITHOUT trying any further overclocking, then boot down again before restarting the system for more follies...repeated crashes without a clean Win7 're-load' cycle can lead to other problems.

Setup - part 3
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I used my standard method to dial in both the delidded 3770K and the 3970X. That coonsist of:


1.) ...setting VCCSA (and VTTw/a) to as close to 1.15 as possible...as I use between 16GB and 32GB of TridentX 2400 MHz, this step is important re. evaluation of the IMC...I add that in C2 stepping of the Sandy-E (unlike C1), it really is not recommended to have VCCSA or VTT at more than 1.2v...even though the mobo BIOS set it automatically at over 1.37v !

2.) Run CineBench 11.5...either pick a CPU speed and find out the minimum vCore the CPU will pass 3 runs in a row (which is very stressful on the CPU, btw), or put a hard cap on vCore (ie 1.484v) and find the multiplier or multi / BCLK combo 3 runs of Cinebench 11.5 pass at....

3.) Once I have a basic 'table' of voltages for select speeds and such, I turn to 4.7GHz, 4.9GHz, 5GHz (50x100), 5.1 GHz (50x102.0) and 5.2GHz for fine-tuning and stress testing...for that I use SuperPi, Intel's XTU, and Aida64 Extreme...whatever 'min' settings pass that with 32GB of 2400MHz ram (up to 2448MHz) at XMP 'plus' extra tight timings I shared before in this thread become my base settings for each speed.

4.) The first two steps work great and very quickly with Asus AI Suite II., 'finding the range' that I use for the basis of BIOS changes - set up for 4.7 GHz 'as the base' I then use to operate from in WIn 7 re other speeds

What's next...

..first, I actually want to finish this 'siamese' build re the 'looks department'...I did as much benching as I could before taking a break now as the weather is getting very much warmer here...the nightly 'lows' have risen by almost 10 C...once that is finished, I'll return to more competitive benching re some 3D but also some memory and HD tests...

...then the big decision will be if I go to 'Extreme Cooling'...I already compete against that anyways per above record summary...and at least the Ivy is ready for it, once I replace the TIM with the appropriate materials...don't know if / when I will go 'extreme', but it seems like the logical next step...stay tuned !

smile.gif
Edited by Joa3d43 - 5/8/13 at 2:19pm
post #18212 of 33688
Bits power 90s are not restrictive and look sexy.... there curved not a sharp 90.

Then again silver will not look like toilet plumping... but also not safe enough for me to use with the fittings u gotta use for those things i do not trust it at all.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k 5.2ghz  GIGABYTE G1 Assassin Sniper 3 7950 with Alphacool block 7950 w/ Alphacool Block 
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7950 w/ Alphacool block G.SKILL Trident X 2500mhz 2x4gb SanDisk Extreme 240gb sata III 6gbs x5 SwiftTech Apongee Drive II 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Monsta 360 86mm thick rad X 4 MCP 35X Pump x2 400ML Frozen Q Fusion res x3 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit 
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CatLeap 2560x1440 + Acer hn274h bmiiid 120hz 3D Logitech G19 Corsair Ax1200 watts  Mountain Mods Ascension 
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i7 3770k 5.2ghz  GIGABYTE G1 Assassin Sniper 3 7950 with Alphacool block 7950 w/ Alphacool Block 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveCooling
7950 w/ Alphacool block G.SKILL Trident X 2500mhz 2x4gb SanDisk Extreme 240gb sata III 6gbs x5 SwiftTech Apongee Drive II 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Monsta 360 86mm thick rad X 4 MCP 35X Pump x2 400ML Frozen Q Fusion res x3 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
CatLeap 2560x1440 + Acer hn274h bmiiid 120hz 3D Logitech G19 Corsair Ax1200 watts  Mountain Mods Ascension 
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post #18213 of 33688
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

Bits power 90s are not restrictive and look sexy.... there curved not a sharp 90.

Then again silver will not look like toilet plumping... but also not safe enough for me to use with the fittings u gotta use for those things i do not trust it at all.

they will be slow curved not really sharp
post #18214 of 33688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valgaur View Post

they will be slow curved not really sharp

I pray for ur sake they do not leak id say there are twice as likely to vs real tubing and highend bits power fittings.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k 5.2ghz  GIGABYTE G1 Assassin Sniper 3 7950 with Alphacool block 7950 w/ Alphacool Block 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveCooling
7950 w/ Alphacool block G.SKILL Trident X 2500mhz 2x4gb SanDisk Extreme 240gb sata III 6gbs x5 SwiftTech Apongee Drive II 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Monsta 360 86mm thick rad X 4 MCP 35X Pump x2 400ML Frozen Q Fusion res x3 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
CatLeap 2560x1440 + Acer hn274h bmiiid 120hz 3D Logitech G19 Corsair Ax1200 watts  Mountain Mods Ascension 
MouseAudio
Logitech M570 Pioneer SP-BS21 Bookshelf Loudspeakers + Lepai Amp 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3770k 5.2ghz  GIGABYTE G1 Assassin Sniper 3 7950 with Alphacool block 7950 w/ Alphacool Block 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveCooling
7950 w/ Alphacool block G.SKILL Trident X 2500mhz 2x4gb SanDisk Extreme 240gb sata III 6gbs x5 SwiftTech Apongee Drive II 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Monsta 360 86mm thick rad X 4 MCP 35X Pump x2 400ML Frozen Q Fusion res x3 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
CatLeap 2560x1440 + Acer hn274h bmiiid 120hz 3D Logitech G19 Corsair Ax1200 watts  Mountain Mods Ascension 
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post #18215 of 33688
Ivy-e in September... Must have... hope this is true
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EK Laing D5 Pump w/ Acetal Top  EK 250mm Reservoir  Windows 7 x64 ROG SWIFT 
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post #18216 of 33688
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

I pray for ur sake they do not leak id say there are twice as likely to vs real tubing and highend bits power fittings.

you have to use plug fittings where the more pressure the tighter the hold on them so yeah... and waterproof....
post #18217 of 33688
Nice writeup Joa, and congrats on them cups mate wink.gif

I think the OCN Marksman pot will suit your needs well... thumb.gif
post #18218 of 33688
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanlabrie View Post

Nice writeup Joa, and congrats on them cups mate wink.gif

I think the OCN Marksman pot will suit your needs well... thumb.gif

...thanks IvanL - also for your memory timing tips, they sure came in handy ! ...can't believe that many of the records, including single card are still alive...at one point in time, I was up to 10 global cups and then all the pro's started to run their LN2 stuff on the new 3D Mark...for a brief (that would be very, very brief) moment, I was leading KingPin - then reality set in biggrin.gif - but most of it actually survived the first day smile.gif
post #18219 of 33688
Hows it going gents? So I have actually delid two 3770ks. The first one wasnt the greatest performer but the second one I had some pretty amazing results. I wasnt aware of this club at the time so I really didnt have all the information required for membership but I figure Ill post what I got and hope for the best. Also when I reinstalled the CPU I swapped out the motherboard. I went from a Asrock extreme4-M to a Asus maximus v gene and I also lapped the IHS.

Pre-delid on the extreme4-M I was running 50x at 1.432v after about 10-15 minutes I would experience some thermal throttling.
After the delid/lap and on the M5G I used all the exact same setting and ran the test for 15 minutes and the highest core went to 66C but averaged around mid 50s.

OCN name: UPGR4Y3DD
CPU: 3770K
on die-TIM: Coollabs Liquid Pro
ihs-TIM: Coollabs Liquid Pro
Mhz gained: N/A
OC after delid: N/A
Temp drops: ~50C!
CPU-Z validation of max OC:
LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
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post #18220 of 33688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

Bits power 90s are not restrictive and look sexy.... there curved not a sharp 90.

Then again silver will not look like toilet plumping... but also not safe enough for me to use with the fittings u gotta use for those things i do not trust it at all.

What conventional water pipe fittings? They can handle 200psi of water for 30 years no problem. Probably even longer than that but I haven't been around long enough to say for sure. But fittings that a plumber would use with copper tubing are waterproof if done correctly.
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