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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 1912

post #19111 of 33576
It's just a well known fact that games are starting to use more threads. Crysis 3 showed the more threads the better. Sorry just the way it is. Not only that but if you do anything else while gaming, or have massive GPU setups the i7 shines superior to the i5.
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post #19112 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

It's just a well known fact that games are starting to use more threads. Crysis 3 showed the more threads the better. Sorry just the way it is. Not only that but if you do anything else while gaming, or have massive GPU setups the i7 shines superior to the i5.

Your own graphs don't support that. I'm not saying newer engines won't benefit from more cores, but HT is not as efficient as physical cores. The 4-6 FPS difference between an i5 and i7 at equal clocks (it can swing either way depending on the engine) is insignificant to all but 120hz gamers at resolutions above 1080p. Most gamers will see better results dropping that extra $100 into a better GPU.
post #19113 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullwipe View Post

Your own graphs don't support that. I'm not saying newer engines won't benefit from more cores, but HT is not as efficient as physical cores. The 4-6 FPS difference between an i5 and i7 at equal clocks (it can swing either way depending on the engine) is insignificant to all but 120hz gamers at resolutions above 1080p. Most gamers will see better results dropping that extra $100 into a better GPU.

Agree 100%

Typically it's better to put the money into a better GPU no doubt. But saying for gaming a i5 does the same job is just bs. We all overclock but it only nets a few extra fps, so then why OC? Same reason people jump for the i7 cause those few extra fps matter.

Also it has been proven a i7 is better overall, specially if you a multi GPU setup. Seriously just google.

For instance gaming and streaming your game is easier on a i7. There are tons of scenarios where having an i7 is advantageous.
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post #19114 of 33576
Most likely going to move to a 3770k if Haswell drives the price down a bit, can't justify replacing my solid 3570k when what I really need is a new GPU.
post #19115 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by King4x4 View Post

Well lads... I killed a 3770k tonight...

Tried vice and hammer method on a friends 3770k... Poor lads cpu flew out of the vice (Even though had it gripped tight!) and broke one of the circuits on the underside.

RIP 3770k

Bought him a replacement who-let-rip-smiley.png

That sucks man.

Should place cardboard boxes or something to block the possibility of flight in the future.
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post #19116 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by gl0ry View Post

That sucks man.

Should place cardboard boxes or something to block the possibility of flight in the future.

As I'm going to be trying this soon, is that the only danger of the hammer and vice method?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtW 420 View Post

With sub-zero cooling you just want to avoid liquid metal tim, delidded should still be fine frozen with regular paste. Delidding ivy just makes it lose overclock headroom for extreme cooling.
Does not apply to watercooling at all, with regular paste you just have to watch for the TIM pump out effect.

Thanks for clarifying! One question though.. What's the TIM pump out effect?
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post #19117 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daredevil 720 View Post

As I'm going to be trying this soon, is that the only danger of the hammer and vice method?
Thanks for clarifying! One question though.. What's the TIM pump out effect?

You seem to be the second person who's ever claimed to have killed a cpu through this method. The first guy stated that his chip flew across the room as well, so I guess that's the main danger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu03beZlOjw

I documented my personal delidding and I never experienced anything like that, but I did place a small cardboard box in front of it in case it did happen.
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post #19118 of 33576
btw why you dont ask someone to hold the cpu? anyhow you are not banging with hammer crazy...
    
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post #19119 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by King4x4 View Post

Well lads... I killed a 3770k tonight...

Tried vice and hammer method on a friends 3770k... Poor lads cpu flew out of the vice (Even though had it gripped tight!) and broke one of the circuits on the underside.

RIP 3770k

Bought him a replacement who-let-rip-smiley.png

...oh dear - though buying him a new one was a nice thing to do.

With the upcoming Ivy-E potentially deliddable (and being a much bigger chip) I probably still come down on the side of the (super careful) razor method rather than the vice-hammer method...more control if you keep your nerve...we'll see thinking.gif
post #19120 of 33576
^ Crysis 3 is way more GPU dependent than CPU dependent, and is literally the single, only game that appreciates extra cores and is below 60fps on an i5 (only other multi-threaded game is bioshock which will still do 80+ fps on an i5). Cherrypick much?

And as you can see, the i5 significantly outperforms everything but the SB-E, with which it's clearly going to be equivalent or better than SB-E at clock for clock. Crysis3 is the only game that an SB-E will be similar with Ivy, in every other game, an Ivy will outperform it due to the unoptimized nature of gaming.

The 2nd bench isn't as reliable, as CPU is all about minimum FPS. Average fps is useless info as that's just the GPU+CPU results.
Quote:
I delidded yesterday and noticed an immediate 10c drop in temps, but I've noticed today that my temps have shot back up to almost pre-delid. Anyone have a guess as to why? I used CLU between the IHS and chip and some AS5 between the chip and H80. Position of the chip also looks normal (covering part of the black bar at the bottom). Idle temps are 35-37c, load temps hit about 60c, everything at stock.

//edit

So I went back and removed some of the CLU thinking I may have had too much, and now my temps went up even more. What the heck is going on here.

Dude As5 is garbage, that's why. It's almost as old as DDR1 RAM. It's significantly older than DDR2. How much has RAM changed since 2003? How much has CPU's changed since then? Likewise, what kind of differences you think paste has gone through? Just as much.

The difference between modern, high end pastes is negligible. Just like in real world use, there's very little difference in 2000mhz RAM and 1600mhz RAM. But we are literally talking 2000mhz DDR3 vs 200mhz DDR1...

Use CLU on both the IHS and die. I see some people use a different paste on the IHS and it's absolutely silly (unless it's aluminum heatsink, but no one who is delidding or using CLU is using an aluminum heatsink). What's best for the die is best for IHS. H80 alsos is just a mid-range cooler, so that may contribute.

Glad to hear a remount fixed the issue though. As you can see, paste application is very important.
Quote:
That's a lot of guess work. Instruction sets always take forever to hit the market. Years in fact, so if your gonna dumb ivy in order to get new instructions, your gonna be disappointed. Heck even the ones that have been out for years are not even being used in everything.

If you have a ivy that can do 4.8+ then your literally just throwing your money away.

I know exactly when AVX2 will be utilized by the programs I use... Sorry, I don't just GaMe on my chip. Otherwise I'd be buying a phenom x4 and have more than enough power. There's also consistent reports of starcraft2, the only game I play, appreciating haswell significantly over ivy per clock, a good 15%+ minimums reported.

I already sold my build, but I jumped on the offer of basically a 100% profit off what I spent on the build. I could still buy Ivy instead of Haswell for my new build. But the program I mainly use, uses AVX2, I also use programs that are heavily reliant on RAM overclocks so an IMC that can do more than just 2200mhz on 8gb on air is also a big performance boost for what I do. There's some single sided hynix MFR for $63 on newegg right now, an even better deal than PSC for $50 off ebay that do 2400mhz CL8.
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