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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 2982

post #29811 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by stin0 View Post

I've got a delid 4690K at the moment with CLU on the die and Grizzly Kryonaut on the heatspreader.
As I love low temps I'm thinking about going for a bare die mount now; I got a custom loop and EKWB sells special delid screws for my waterblock.

Never did a bare die mount before so any suggestions on the paste I should use on the die?
I'm thinking about just using the Grizzly Kryonaut as it's fairly easy to apply with the appliance tools they provide. Also the dot/pea method wouldn't work, given the shape of the die.
I am not really a big fan of having CLU in direct contact with my waterblock as it's fairly aggressive stuff.

CLU is also an option though, still got some left of it and the caps next to the DIE are covered in a thin layer of nail polish 
Originally Posted by inedenimadam View Post


Direct die with CLU! It will stain a copper block, but not a nickel plated one. I have been running naked for 2 years or more and have seen no negative side effects other than an ugly spot on my block. Ivy Bridge 5.0 24/7

 

My 4770k has been naked for about 2 years as well with traditional paste.  I'm running a XSPC Raystorm CPU block.  There wasn't any additional hardware, just a little trial fitment and simple calculations for how tight the screws needed to be.  

 

The CLU will definitely mark the copper, but that should be about it.  

 


 

Just did a comparison of Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut to CLU.  I will have some results and screenshots up in a little while. 

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post #29812 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by stin0 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by inedenimadam View Post

Direct die with CLU! It will stain a copper block, but not a nickel plated one. I have been running naked for 2 years or more and have seen no negative side effects other than an ugly spot on my block. Ivy Bridge 5.0 24/7

Thanks for the fast response thumb.gif
I have this waterblock from EKWB.

Right now I have the waterblock mounted with the outlet on the top and inlet on the bottom - it works easier for me in terms of tubing.
However I believe when going bare die mount I should mount the waterblock the normal, not 90-degrees turned, way for optimal performance.

How important is the way the block is mounted?
I figure that with the normal outer heatspreader it doesnt matter and it's still on the whole surface, but with a bare die mount it should be mounted 'normally' so that the internal jet plate is aligned with the die.

I have not done testing on Goofy vs. Normal for a dellided CPU. Much like you I just assumed that having the water block in the normal mount made much more sense considering the shape of the naked die, with the channel flow perpendicular to the length of the die.

That block will not show the same staining that a copper block will. My SupremacyEVO is nickel and has shown no signs of staining compared to my OG Supremacy with the copper base. Both have pretty much been CLU all the way. Now that I think about it, the copper block does seem to dry the CLU out over time compared to the nickel block, but that isn't a concern because you have the nickel block.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboyto View Post



Just did a comparison of Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut to CLU.  I will have some results and screenshots up in a little while. 

Interested in these results, both of my blocks have been mounted since before the bear snot was available.
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post #29813 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboyto View Post

Never thought about removing it like that.  But the tape is also removable instantly and it holds the lid in place so you don't have to glue it back down.

You need to alter the application method of the glue otherwise there is no point in delidding the chip.  Remember the primary reason for delidding is removing the glue so the IHS makes contact with the die.  If you were to delid, put down CLU, and then glue it back on like Intel does...your temps would probably be worse because the CLU is much thinner and wouldn't be making much, if any, contact with the IHS.


I'm gonna disagree. I reglued my IHS back on with high temp RTV and the temps were a drastic improvement and much more even than before. I think the trick was using very little and then putting it in the socket/holder and mounting the block right away so it could compress the RTV as much as possible. To say there was a drastic improvement over stock is an understatement. This was with TG Conductonaut.
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post #29814 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by stin0 View Post

Thanks for the fast response thumb.gif
I have this waterblock from EKWB.

Right now I have the waterblock mounted with the outlet on the top and inlet on the bottom - it works easier for me in terms of tubing.
However I believe when going bare die mount I should mount the waterblock the normal, not 90-degrees turned, way for optimal performance.

How important is the way the block is mounted?
I figure that with the normal outer heatspreader it doesnt matter and it's still on the whole surface, but with a bare die mount it should be mounted 'normally' so that the internal jet plate is aligned with the die.

Be aware what processor you're going direct die on, as a regular flat block will not work well on Skylake/1151 because the socket sticks up higher than the die, blocking good contact. Copper shim or something would be needed.
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post #29815 of 33576

Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut - Is it better than CLU?

 

 

I recently installed a new AIO into my HTPC.  It is currently running the DeepCool Captain 240 AIO which I wrote a review about: http://www.overclock.net/products/deepcool-captain-240-computer-cpu-water-cooler-silent-liquid-cooling/reviews/7272

 

For $80 it's a bargain if you don't need extreme/cutting edge performance and want something that looks pretty sweet compared to most other AIO's out there.

 

I did a lot of benching to see how well the Captain worked with a fresh application of CLU utilizing the supplied fans in push and pull configuration, as well as with three different fans speed for push and pull.  I then tested Kryonaut against the pre-applied DeepCool paste.  Spoiler:  There wasn't much difference even though Kryonaut has 3X the advertised thermal conductance as the pre-applied paste.

 

All this means is that I had a great idea of how well this thing performed.  I could have just pulled data from early December, but I figured I would run IBT to see where the temperatures were at right now.  All CPU, voltage, and OC settings are identical to what they were in December.  The most notable difference is that ambient temp is up about 2C in my condo to 23C.

 

 

My HTPC:

 

  • Intel i7 4790k – Delidded
  • Gigabyte G1 Gaming 5 Z97 mATX motherboard
  • G.Skill Ripjaws-X 16GB (2 x 8) 2133MHz @ 1.5V (XMP: 11-13-13-31-t2)
  • PowerColor AMD R9 290 Reference Edition – XSPC Razor water block w/ backplate
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  • Toshiba Q Series 120GB SSD – Seagate Barracuda 2TB (The ‘BatDrive’) – Panasonic UJ-265 Slim Blu-Ray
  • Fractal Design Node 804

                                                                                                                  

GPU is cooled by a compact 240 loop consisting of: 

  • (1) XSPC EX240
  • XSPC H2O 420 pump/res
  • Bitspower fittings and ¼” barbs
  • Tygon R3400 black 3/8” OD tubing
  • (2) SilenX Effizio Thermistor fans (pull)

 

 

Pertinent CPU Overclock Settings:

  • 4.6 GHz – 46 x 100
  • Offset Core Voltage – 1.100V + .070V Offset
    • This made for 1.260V ‘standard’ loads and 1.270V IBT load
  • VRIN – 1.860V
  • VRIN LLC - High
  • Ring Voltage - Auto
  • RAM Voltage: 1.5V

 

Screenshot to verify clocks and load voltage

Clocks/Volts (Click to show)

 

 

My first bar chart is a comparison of what temperatures were like in December to what they are today.  I blew all the dust out of the case/radiator to make sure it would be working as good as when it was installed new.  I don't know why, but my HTPC would not complete IBT with the fans in silent mode...tried 4 times...wouldn't work.  Didn't want to alter any OC settings so they are omitted.

 

Performance has degraded by about 2C since December...could be chalked up to ambient though.

 

Chart & Screens (Click to show)

 

IBT for 10 passes at Very High RAM load 4096MB

 

 

 

Now that we have a baseline for CLU we can swap in the Conductonaut!

 

Here's what the CLU and Kryonaut look like after 2 months:

2 Months of Use (Click to show)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meet Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut!

 

It comes in a tube just like their other grease but has a 'pin point' applicator tip to dispense the LM goodness.  Instructions, a warning, some alcohol pads, and special Q-tips.

 

Conductonaut Contents (Click to show)

 

 

The Q-tips have something done to the cotton swab to give them a ridged look; I'm assuming so they don't unravel.

 

Cotton Swabs (Click to show)

 

 

I did not use the pin point applicator tip as I feel that is ultimately a fair amount of wasted product; I simply squirted a small dab onto the die.

 

A Dab Will Do (Click to show)

 

 

At first I tried to use the CLU brush since I didn't like the idea of the cotton swab.  It didn't work at all, just smeared it around and caused it to ball up.

 

Brush Won't Spread It (Click to show)

 

 

I switched to the cotton swab and as instructed used more pressure to spread it around...but it didn't work that well.

 

More Effort Than CLU To Spread (Click to show)

 

 

I kept swirling it around and trying to smash the balls of LM...after a little effort it started to spread.  Considerably more finagling than CLU.

 

Here We Go...Starting To Spread (Click to show)

 

And we have good pretty good coverage.

 

The Full Spread (Click to show)

 

 

 

 

Now the two liquid metals can duke it out :boxing3:

 

For the sake of making a somewhat quick comparison I decided to only run the fans at full speed.

 

1st comparison of CLU and TGCN I did not alter the application of Kryonaut between the IHS and AIO.  

 

The CN temps are higher by: +6, +1, +4, +1 degrees respectively per core.

 

CLU ~ VS ~ TGCN (Click to show)

 

 

I figured I should give the Conductonaut a shot at fresh Kryonaut as well.  

 

Applying fresh Kryonaut actually increased temperatures: +1, +2, +2, 0 respectively per core.

 

Fresh Kryonaut on Top of IHS (Click to show)

 

 

Maybe the application of Conductonaut wasn't that great...Let's open her up and see how it looks after a few benches.

 

Check The Conductonaut (Click to show)

Very strange...There's a large bald spot and it looks like the LM started to pool towards the bottom of the die...gravity dragging it down?

 

 

 

 

I decided to add just a pinch more Conductonaut to make sure I got good coverage:

 

 

 

 

Now a comparison of the 1st CN application to the 2nd

 

Mostly an improvement in temperatures here: -5, -2, -3, +1

 

Re-apply Conductonaut (Click to show)

 

 

 

 

 

Now let's see how it fairs against the CLU results from today

 

Looks like the CLU is still in the lead:  -2, -1, -3, -2 respectively per core.

 

 


 

Current Conclusion

 

You would think since Conductonaut (73 W/mk) is boasting a thermal conductance rating that is nearly double CLU (38.4 W/mk) that it would have the leg up...apparently not.  I initially thought that maybe it's better for cooling means other than basic water, and it could excel with dry ice or LN2...but TG states it's best suited for temps above 8C.

 

Obviously a delta of 1-3C across the cores can be attributed to a margin of error and imperfect testing conditions/methodologies.  Take it as you will, but it can essentially be considered a tie in my eyes currently.  If it was going to being a vastly superior product, I feel my tests would have shown it.  

 

The only thing Conductonaut has going for it is a lower price tag of $9 compared to $16.  Thermal Grizzly tells you you get 1g of Conductonaut, but I can't find the included weight/volume of CLU.

 

We will need to see comparisons from other users before passing final judgement.  However, CLU is my current suggestion due to ease of use as Conductonaut shows no major performance benefits.


Edited by Roboyto - 2/12/16 at 5:12pm
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post #29816 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmanmarz View Post


I'm gonna disagree. I reglued my IHS back on with high temp RTV and the temps were a drastic improvement and much more even than before. I think the trick was using very little and then putting it in the socket/holder and mounting the block right away so it could compress the RTV as much as possible. To say there was a drastic improvement over stock is an understatement. This was with TG Conductonaut.

 

Since you used the sealant sparingly and then utilized the socket to compress the sealant as much as possible, you installed it differently than Intel I would imagine.  Or your chip had particularly poor performance with the stock TIM to begin with.  

 

Yes, liquid metal thermal compound gives a big improvement.  But not everyone wants to use, or is comfortable with using, liquid metal TIM.  So it doesn't alter the fact that increasing contact of the die to IHS is the primary reason temperatures improve.

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post #29817 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboyto View Post

Since you used the sealant sparingly and then utilized the socket to compress the sealant as much as possible, you installed it differently than Intel I would imagine.  Or your chip had particularly poor performance with the stock TIM to begin with.  

Yes, liquid metal thermal compound gives a big improvement.  But not everyone wants to use, or is comfortable with using, liquid metal TIM.  So it doesn't alter the fact that increasing contact of the die to IHS is the primary reason temperatures improve.

Absolutely, although mind you the first time around I did relid with a replacement paste with the stock intel stuff removed and the same procedure with RTV so the ihs would have been making better contact. It wasnt for a few days that the temps started increasing (worse than stock) from pump out, and my results are compared to the temps I got before it pumped out.

With my overclock:
Stock intel cap - max load ~90c and uneven across cores
Replace with Ceramique 2 on die ~80c and uneven across cores, temps went up to close to 100c after a week with pump out
Replace Ceramique 2 with Conductonaut ~65c and actually 60c when uxing x264, very even temps across cores.
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post #29818 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboyto View Post

Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut - Is it better than CLU?



At first I tried to use the CLU brush since I didn't like the idea of the cotton swab.  It didn't work at all, just smeared it around and caused it to ball up.
Brush Won't Spread It (Click to show)


I switched to the cotton swab and as instructed used more pressure to spread it around...but it didn't work that well.
More Effort Than CLU To Spread (Click to show)

I agree, the application is very difficult as the stuff just wants to stay balled up. I found that dabbing at the ball, and using a little too much, worked best. I also brushed a very quick thinnn layer on the underside of the cap. This is also why I played it safe and used nailpolish around the die, although not much to make contact with on Skylake to begin with. I did use the pinpoint applicator but it shoots the stuff out like a rocket and got all over my cpu and had to clean it all off. fortunately it all balls right back up with just a little residue.
Edited by madmanmarz - 2/6/16 at 5:53pm
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post #29819 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmanmarz View Post

I agree, the application is very difficult as the stuff just wants to stay balled up. I found that dabbing at the ball, and using a little too much, worked best. I also brushed a very quick thinnn layer on the underside of the cap. This is also why I played it safe and used nailpolish around the die, although not much to make contact with on Skylake to begin with. I did use the pinpoint applicator but it shoots the stuff out like a rocket and got all over my cpu and had to clean it all off. fortunately it all balls right back up with just a little residue.

I would definitely use the included brush. I am lucky enough to know someone who works for a cosmetics company so I have been given a bag of small nail polish brushes. Just keep brushing it, it will roll around a bit but eventually spread. One little bead is more than enough for the entire CPU, you may even be dabbing up extra at the end if it is not mirror flat. I cannot recommend a q-tip since you may leave fibers, I may even denounce q-tip method for that reason. Just stay steady with your strokes and brace your wrist on something for finer detail.
post #29820 of 33576
Does conductonaut benefit from applying the TIM to the brush, instead of the die, like clu/clp?
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