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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 3094

post #30931 of 33556
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePC View Post

Hey everyone, I've delidded my CPU for a while now, but every time I find one main issue.

Initially the temperatures are fine (however temps across cores are inconsistent), but after 3-4 days, the temperatures on 3 out of 4 cores sky rockets.

I've tried re applying TIM a few times now, and have tried placing both a thin line of paste on top of the die and spreading TIM on the die.

Delid was vice only method. I'm currently running at 4.4Ghz at 1.35V, 3570k. (yeah, my chip is not great) Heatsink is NH-D14, using NT-H1 on both IHS and die.

Temperatures after 5 runs of IBT: (refer to 3rd column)



(Core 0 temperature is reflective of the temps after intital repasting)

Paste Application/Spread of Paste on Die/Spread of Paste on IHS (back):


Anyone have any ideas as to why this is happening? I have not applied any paste on the back side of the IHS. I've only applied paste on the die, and have used the IHS clamping pressure to spread it. IHS paste was applied via pea method, spread by the NH-D14.

CLU is hard to find in Canada, so I'd like to try any other alternatives before having to purchase CLU.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0ldChicken View Post

hate to say it @DavePC but most normal TIM will "pump out" like your has been doing. The only solution I know of is to use a liquid metal TIM like CLU/CLP or Phobya LM. I believe some others claim to be "pump out resistant" but I'm not sure.

The liquid metals are your best bet though

He is 100% correct, CLU can't be that hard to find in Canada, its super hard to find in France even though its made in Germany haha. Best bet is to order from the US somewhere near the border if oyu are, theres a certain limit for price where you wont have to pay taxes so should be fine.

Theres maybe a couple at most, of TIMs that will last a while on the die. Everyone keeps rambling that the issue is the intel TIM but intel TIM is AMAZING stuff. How do i know? Because huh it doesnt pump out over YEARS. Its thick stuff, with a bit of silver in it and is amazing thermal paste. The issue is the gap between the IHS and die that are the issues. Thats it. its been proven over and over and theres an entire thread online. You need some real thick thermal paste, since the heat is so direct and in a confined space it tends to get thin real quick and will "pump out". My noctua TIM only lasted a couple days before it changed. CLU/CLP/ or any other liquid metal is the best to use. Look for Conductonaut, CLU/CLP, Phobya. Whatever you can find, there most all made out of the same material so it wont make much difference in the temp department.
    
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post #30932 of 33556
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePC View Post

CLU is hard to find in Canada, so I'd like to try any other alternatives before having to purchase CLU.
I purchased my CLU directly from Coolaboratory, the cost worked out lower than buying it from the US, and they mailed it out quickly:
http://www.coollaboratory.com/product/coollaboratory-liquid-ultra/
    
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post #30933 of 33556
^big shout for phyobia LM if you cant get CLU. It was 1/2 the cost of CLU last time i ordered, and was available on amazon.
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post #30934 of 33556
Thanks for the help everyone, looks like I'll be picking up CLU and trying that out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerComissar View Post

I purchased my CLU directly from Coolaboratory, the cost worked out lower than buying it from the US, and they mailed it out quickly:
http://www.coollaboratory.com/product/coollaboratory-liquid-ultra/

How long did it take for them to ship it, and how long did it take to arrive from the shipping date?
post #30935 of 33556
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePC View Post

Thanks for the help everyone, looks like I'll be picking up CLU and trying that out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerComissar View Post

I purchased my CLU directly from Coolaboratory, the cost worked out lower than buying it from the US, and they mailed it out quickly:
http://www.coollaboratory.com/product/coollaboratory-liquid-ultra/

How long did it take for them to ship it, and how long did it take to arrive from the shipping date?
Wasn't too long:

They filled and shipped the order a couple days after I ordered it, and it took about a week to get here from Germany.

Edit:
That was shipped via parcel post.
    
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post #30936 of 33556
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0ldChicken View Post

hate to say it @DavePC but most normal TIM will "pump out" like your has been doing. The only solution I know of is to use a liquid metal TIM like CLU/CLP or Phobya LM. I believe some others claim to be "pump out resistant" but I'm not sure.

The liquid metals are your best bet though

I think I finally figured out why the pump out effect happen more often to delidded chips compared to normal heatsinks on the IHS. Lets see if I'm not as crazy as I normally am biggrin.gif

So with normal heatsinks and the pressure applied to the IHS, most normal TIM, non liquid or metal type, pump out, but very slowly and over many many months and years. If we apply a hypothesis of pressure to area ratio and use the heatsink on the IHS as the standard we can illustarte that as a 1:1 ratio of surface area to surface area (IHS/heatsink or waterblock). This would be backed up from the IHS and base of many/all heatsinks/waterblocks being the same size or slightly larger than the IHS. So when most people apply their TIM it's either in the middle (pea sized application) or by a means of the X (two lines crossed), little TIM makes it to the far outer edges really. This then would hold true to a minimal amount of "pump out" effect for normal application. Additionally, with so much distance for the TIM to travel to become pumped out the likelihood falls dramatically.

Looking at the other scenario now of a delidded chip, just take into consideration the size of the die compared to the IHS. I'm spitballing here in terms of surface area but lets say its 1/5th the size (die/IHS size difference). So compared to before having a 1:1 ratio for normal non delidded chips, a delidded chip's die would have a 1:5 ratio of surface area to surface area (die/IHS). My thought would then be, having a standard approach to TIM placement wont really fit the bill due to the size difference. The size difference for the TIM to travel for a pump out effect would be so small that it'll easily pump out even after a short amount of time.

Things that haven't even been taken into account are pressures and even heat application for a more viscous TIM.

I think the reason liquid metal holds so well is because it is a liquid, which has a much higher tension ratio compared to other forms of TIM states. Technically normal TIM is a liquid, but it's much more solidified, often referred to as a "paste".

Not trying to sound like a scientist here, but the thought popped into my head and I thought people would find it interesting! thumb.gif End Vagur sciencey thoguht process! biggrin.gif
post #30937 of 33556
I just ordered my EK precise mount with some other things from ppcs and I should be naked by next weekend! i love saying that! tongue.gif It's been really fun pushing my pc closer to it's limits and I can't thank you guys enough for helping to make it possible! I never saw myself doing things like delidding a $300+ cpu and running 5.0ghz 24/7 but the addiction is real and I'm loving it! I can't wait to see whats next... I was eyeballing an old window ac in my basement this afternoon thinking.gif ....


@Valgaur do you think if one could create a plate to make an even surface around the die then perhaps regular TIM could be used? It'd have to be a tight fit and I'm not sure why anyone would go to the trouble but that's an interesting theory you've got going on thumb.gif
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post #30938 of 33556
So gents, did some testing over the last few days with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut and CLU. Used firstrike stress test for each. All fans and pumps set to 70% on PWM. (6x EKVardar 120 2200rpm, and 4x EKVarder 140 2000rpm) Here are my findings:

CLU:
Ambient at start of test: 23.88
GPU Idle: 25c
GPU temp when full load is applied: 37c
Ambient Air at end of test: 25.2c
Max load temp: 41-42c (fluctuated between the two.)

Thermal Grizzly:
Ambient at start of test: 24.9
GPU idle: 27c
GPU temp when full load is applied: 39c
Ambient air at end of test: 25.8
Max load temp: 43c

Overall, not a huge difference, 0.5-1c. Both acted the same when load was taken off, temps drop down to around the coolant temp. (32-33c at the end both tests) Both of these TIMs are a PITA to clean up, so really the choice is your preference. In this case, I am going to just use thermal grizzly for my TIM, only because I would like to resell the GPU and block, since CLU leaves a nice impression on both... haha.

Now, as far as air cooling goes, I saw quiet a difference on my 970's, 5c from memory. Since liquid cooling heat transfer is already so good, I don't think using the CLU really helps that much. (IMHO.)
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post #30939 of 33556
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTRtank View Post

So gents, did some testing over the last few days with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut and CLU. Used firstrike stress test for each. All fans and pumps set to 70% on PWM. (6x EKVardar 120 2200rpm, and 4x EKVarder 140 2000rpm) Here are my findings:

CLU:
Ambient at start of test: 23.88
GPU Idle: 25c
GPU temp when full load is applied: 37c
Ambient Air at end of test: 25.2c
Max load temp: 41-42c (fluctuated between the two.)

Thermal Grizzly:
Ambient at start of test: 24.9
GPU idle: 27c
GPU temp when full load is applied: 39c
Ambient air at end of test: 25.8
Max load temp: 43c

Overall, not a huge difference, 0.5-1c. Both acted the same when load was taken off, temps drop down to around the coolant temp. (32-33c at the end both tests) Both of these TIMs are a PITA to clean up, so really the choice is your preference. In this case, I am going to just use thermal grizzly for my TIM, only because I would like to resell the GPU and block, since CLU leaves a nice impression on both... haha.

Now, as far as air cooling goes, I saw quiet a difference on my 970's, 5c from memory. Since liquid cooling heat transfer is already so good, I don't think using the CLU really helps that much. (IMHO.)

Now you need to test Phobya LM tongue.gif. Was on newegg for half price of CLU last I saw sneaky.gif
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post #30940 of 33556
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmfree88 View Post

Now you need to test Phobya LM tongue.gif. Was on newegg for half price of CLU last I saw sneaky.gif

Yeah I would, all the reviews I have seen put it a little behind these TIMs, well Grizzly being even with it. I think with the CPU the difference between all of them would be greater, but the GPU watercooled just doesn't put out a lot of heat. Now, on my delidded CPU @ 1.45v I think I would see a difference.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Intel › Intel CPUs › [Official] Delidded Club / Guide