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post #31441 of 33985
Fresh application might be a little more worry free. However experimentation should be done as well.
post #31442 of 33985
I think Intel TIM is designed to harden and bond. Performs similar to AS5 which tends to dry out over time but still works because of the metal particles. I have seen application issues from Intel that have resulted in air pockets that even raise only 1-2 core temps but that is generally very rare. It is entirely possible that when removing the IHS you created the air pockets as the TIM pulled apart from its semi-hardened bond. The distance from IHS to DIE is less in the center so more likely to pull completely out. Looking at the IHS side it appears to have the same shape but cant tell if its an indent or if its sticking out. Could be wrong its entirely possible you had a factory failure.

Stock has been tested against multiple other TIM though and it is decent. Clearly it lasts long because many normal non-delidded users go 5+ years without issues. With a lot of the mainstream pastes it dries and fails within a year or two. Its not perfect and certainly the application process isn't going to be perfect but the paste has proven to be good for the job it is doing.

I am also not 100% sure the paste supplied on stock Intel heatsinks is the same. May be a different formula or may use something to preserve it. It also may have a different application process which could effect quality of outcome (since it usually comes pre-applied).

If no other paste can handle being under the IHS for even a month let alone years then Intel stock paste is good. Especially since it also does decent compared to other pastes. Find me multiple types of pastes that can handle under the IHS for years and outperforms under the same conditions we can start talking about their paste sucking but until then I think its safe to say they did ok. Might need better application process but certainly the TIM is better than many

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post #31443 of 33985
The paste in that diagram is intended for use of only 3 years.

Would a 3 year paste be tested against a 5 year paste? Has this 3 year paste been tested for 5 years?

Intel paste is good enough. No one ever said otherwise.

My thought about lapping the ridge along the sides on the under side of the IHS plate was disregarded. Do this to eliminate a "gap" between die and plate.

Also known that most pastes are within 5c of each other. It's the extras such as lapping the cooler and top side of plate to further help temps. Also seen in the depiction above. Those tests should have been done on a non lapped plate imo.

But thanks for that post!! very informative!!
post #31444 of 33985
Quote:
Originally Posted by paskowitz View Post

Question. With liquid metal TIM, if I remove my IHS can I just reapply a little extra TIM to the die and redistribute it or should I always do a fresh application?

My experience is completely clean the IHS or the block if you are running naked, then dab the die with the slightest amount of new liquid metal so that redistributing covers the entire die without holes, like new. It is personally preference I would think.

I find I use so much more liquid metal that it becomes wasted if I completely clean and then reapply.
At the same time there is then more opportunity to miss things going wrong with your chip as you spend less time with it.
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post #31445 of 33985
Quote:
Originally Posted by g0tsl33p14 View Post

My experience is completely clean the IHS or the block if you are running naked, then dab the die with the slightest amount of new liquid metal so that redistributing covers the entire die without holes, like new. It is personally preference I would think.

I find I use so much more liquid metal that it becomes wasted if I completely clean and then reapply.
At the same time there is then more opportunity to miss things going wrong with your chip as you spend less time with it.

Don't forget my experience though, I used as little as possible and my temps where really bad. it needs to be a happy medium.
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post #31446 of 33985
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBrime View Post

The paste in that diagram is intended for use of only 3 years.

Would a 3 year paste be tested against a 5 year paste? Has this 3 year paste been tested for 5 years?

Intel paste is good enough. No one ever said otherwise.

My thought about lapping the ridge along the sides on the under side of the IHS plate was disregarded. Do this to eliminate a "gap" between die and plate.

Also known that most pastes are within 5c of each other. It's the extras such as lapping the cooler and top side of plate to further help temps. Also seen in the depiction above. Those tests should have been done on a non lapped plate imo.

But thanks for that post!! very informative!!

Well what we do know is MX-4 is a 8+ year paste and it pumps out in less than a week. the table above showed that at the same height the intel TIM outperforms regular TIM directly after installation. The Noctua will not last 3 years direct on die it will pump out very quickly. As I had mentioned in a previous post awhile back I think it mostly has to do with the fact that there is no gap between the IHS and the die. It is touching. You are only filling the gaps between two surfaces that are making contact down the center. I think most pastes are too much of a liquid to hold together in the center with pressure applied by both the heatsink and the IHS being pressed down and heated. With a shim you might actually get regular paste to last as long as the intel paste since it would no longer have as much pressure on it. Intel paste might even pump out if you use it without the extra glue/shim that creates the gap. Would be interesting to find out. Which would prove its not really better but the gap itself prevents the pumpout (if the intel paste also pumps out without the gap)
Edited by dmfree88 - 9/25/16 at 3:19pm
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post #31447 of 33985
Yes the gap. very small. But why shim if the argument was the glue creates the gap in the first place?

I assume the shim was in place of the glue? Why shim and not re-glue? Is it possible the glue can be thinner than the shim dependent on clamping force?

Here's AS5 on a bare naked AMD chip.

Looks like a good contact and spreading, a little pump out there, but no hardening. Cannot remember the length of time used, but was likely a couple of months on a daily set up. Ranging from burn in to every day use and benchmarking.




Full spread technique with a nice thin coat.

post #31448 of 33985
Is it unusual to the the IHS be extremely hard to remove?
I tried the AquaComputer Skylake "twister" the other day I had 3D printed and I broke the tool, I had a hard time.. broke a few drivers etc. Then finally broke the tool.
I am ready to Delid my 6700k and I am wondering how dum-dum proof is using the Razer method? I Delidded my 4790K with a vice, then returned the vice to Home Depot, but I know the vice method isn't the go to method anymore, espesh for Skylake.
Since razer blades are pretty cheap, compared to an actual tool*I spent 10 bucks for the 3D printed one*, I may go this route..
Thoughts?
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post #31449 of 33985
That razor you see in the picture above is a double sided shaving razor. Super sharp. It glides through the glue with ease. But the razor bends if not careful besides the two sharp edges. A piece of tape over the one edge so you can hold it.

The pop the top method works ok.

But any way you do it, there's some risks involved.
post #31450 of 33985
And since yer lookin' for cheap, the razor blade is about as cheap as yer gonna get.
Hell, you could probably borrow one from a relative, then it don't cost ya nuthin'.rolleyes.gif

Edit:
I'm just in a silly mood. But my first two delids were done using a razor blade, one I found lying in my tool box at that, lol.biggrin.gif
Edited by DerComissar - 9/25/16 at 8:14pm
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