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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 725

post #7241 of 33557
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

Belial, don't use PK-3, it's a horrible paste when compared to CLU ... unless you want to delid it twice then go for it, otherwise, waste of time.

I used pk-3 on IHS under cooling block and it's no better than MX-2 was. there was around 10C temps drop just by using CLU on the IHS. now imagine what it means for the die (under IHS)...

I have a hard time believing that (i dont know much about mx-2, but as I understand it, it's worse than MX-4). The last few weeks, I've remounted pastes and done about 20 different thermal paste and heatsink tests, and how much paste you apply and how you apply it can have just as large an impact (or more specifically, adverse affect if you use too much or use the spread method vs small grain of rice or dot method). The best results I've had was like a 5*C drop using PK-3 over PK-2 (which is slightly better than PK-1, which itself seems to generally be above MX-4), while the worst results I had were actually using 2 grains of rice on pk-3 (note that 2 grains of rice was enough paste to barely cover the entire IHS, the best results occurred when the paste didn't completely spread out over the entire IHS).

Also, 10*C drops just by changing thermal paste, when using a performance paste (ie not a stock paste, even something as terrible and outdated as as5; and not including indigo extreme), sounds definitely like a seating problem, than a paste problem.

Now I know the liquids are really high end stuff, but they are still thermal pastes, they aren't like indigo extreme where it's 10*C+ consistently above the 2nd best out there, it's more like phobya hegrease and IC diamond and other compounds that are a bar above high end conventional performance paste. Liquid is definitely better than any other thermal paste, because it's more than just thermal paste, but it isn't going to be responsible for 10*C, at most it's like 1-5*C over the best standard pastes (as in, any sort of 'normal' paste, ie not made of metal and melts stuff and 4x more expensive).

As I understand it, even the stock intel paste is not that bad, and you'd get good results by just delidding, rubbing off that black glue (the true problem and why we delid), and keeping the stock paste instead of replacing it.

I'm sure one day I'll get some liquid, but I think pk-3 and a delid job should be sufficient cooling for a high end, pushing the limit, IB overclock. If not, well then I'll start sweating about a couple degrees (a 3rd fan, using 3x140mms on the nh-d14, better paste, lapping, etc).
Quote:
I didn't have this problem before on same bIOS and same daily OC settings, it's something new, started less than a week ago. my rig pulls up to 800W under full load (e.g. folding on cpu + 2x 670) or when stress testing components at same time (e.g. IBT on CPU + Furmark on SLI in full screen) or benchmarking 3dmark11.

Well could be hardware degradation and you simply need to step up voltages to something to make up for it (as in your CPU, your IMC, your RAM, etc), but okay maybe it's your PSU.

Could totally be your PSU, but yea it sounds like something else given what you said. You should try troubleshooting - remove on of those GPUs, stop running AIDA64, see if you can rule something else out before you do something drastic like spend money.
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post #7242 of 33557
http://www.overclock.net/t/1283797/ivy-bridge-3770k-de-lid-liquid-pro-as-5-tested-amazing-results/0_100

okay maybe liquid is worth it lol.

ill look into it.
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post #7243 of 33557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Yea I'm aware that RAM might not appreciate more than 1.65v so I'll see. I'm just planning to be okay with overvolting ram to the extreme limits for voltage for 24/7 overclock - RAM is so cheap, so I'm okay with doing a bit of damage or hurting it's life a bit. As I understand it, most ram is okay for 1.7-1.8v, and I know what IC it is makes a difference.
I'm currently looking to buy, for something like $18.99, the 2 x 2GB Crucial Ballstix Tactical Tracers (the ones with LED and slightly lower profile, not the obnoxious tacticals with huge, tall heatspreaders - even though the huge talls ones would be $1-2 cheaper and have 1866CL9 1.5v vs the 1600mhzCL8 1.5v of the tactical tracers, although those specs are basically the exact same thing anyways). I'll research more into them, but basically I'm okay with maxing their volts out if need be, even if it doesn't do much (if it does anything, im okay with it, basically).
So for the safety of the chip, don't go past 1.75 ram voltage, basically? There isn't something like you can raise IMC voltage and make things all okay? Kind of weird how that all works, coming from AMD where you can just ramp up the volts on ram and it won't damage the CPU in any way. I do plan to overvolt my vcore to like 1.5 - as I understand it, 1.4 is the limit for 24/7 but I'm okay with a little more (nh-d14 and delid should hopefully make it so temps aren't a limiting factor) and that 1.5 is somewhat okay or something.
For 24/7 overclocks, I mean. I'm not particularly into benching, just the most stability I can get for a 24/7 overclock and a 30+ hour prime95 blend test w/max ram.
The last few weeks I've reseated 3 heatsinks like 10 times each. I'm okay, delidding clearly provides such clear results that I don't think I need to worry about if the delid actually drops temps or not.
Now, I might lap the CPU (it doesnt sound like lapping results in significant cooling reduction, maybe just a couple degrees at best, and while I'm all for doing that kind of thing just for a degree or two, and it might even be a good idea to just go ahead and lap it while I'm at it, ie waiting a week for parts to come in and delidding the cpu before installation), and in that case, I'll probably try out the cpu before lapping.re

Crucial makes fine ram sticks and has great support, but remember they don't scale past 2133 with good timings, 2400mhz with good luck is doable on the 1600c8 sticks. (I've seen it done on 8gb sticks at cl10-10-10-27-1t or something like that using 1.7v soo you might get a decent oc out of those or the 4gbsolder sticks. 2gb sticks not so sure)
you could always buy g.skill 2400c9 sticks or even samsung 1600 cl11 1.35v ram for less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

http://www.overclock.net/t/1283797/ivy-bridge-3770k-de-lid-liquid-pro-as-5-tested-amazing-results/0_100
okay maybe liquid is worth it lol.
ill look into it.

Yeah, totally worth it! biggrin.gif
post #7244 of 33557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

I have a hard time believing that (i dont know much about mx-2, but as I understand it, it's worse than MX-4). The last few weeks, I've remounted pastes and done about 20 different thermal paste and heatsink tests, and how much paste you apply and how you apply it can have just as large an impact (or more specifically, adverse affect if you use too much or use the spread method vs small grain of rice or dot method). The best results I've had was like a 5*C drop using PK-3 over PK-2 (which is slightly better than PK-1, which itself seems to generally be above MX-4), while the worst results I had were actually using 2 grains of rice on pk-3 (note that 2 grains of rice was enough paste to barely cover the entire IHS, the best results occurred when the paste didn't completely spread out over the entire IHS).
Also, 10*C drops just by changing thermal paste, when using a performance paste (ie not a stock paste, even something as terrible and outdated as as5; and not including indigo extreme), sounds definitely like a seating problem, than a paste problem.
Now I know the liquids are really high end stuff, but they are still thermal pastes, they aren't like indigo extreme where it's 10*C+ consistently above the 2nd best out there, it's more like phobya hegrease and IC diamond and other compounds that are a bar above high end conventional performance paste. Liquid is definitely better than any other thermal paste, because it's more than just thermal paste, but it isn't going to be responsible for 10*C, at most it's like 1-5*C over the best standard pastes (as in, any sort of 'normal' paste, ie not made of metal and melts stuff and 4x more expensive).
As I understand it, even the stock intel paste is not that bad, and you'd get good results by just delidding, rubbing off that black glue (the true problem and why we delid), and keeping the stock paste instead of replacing it.
I'm sure one day I'll get some liquid, but I think pk-3 and a delid job should be sufficient cooling for a high end, pushing the limit, IB overclock. If not, well then I'll start sweating about a couple degrees (a 3rd fan, using 3x140mms on the nh-d14, better paste, lapping, etc).


AS5 still has a higher w/mk then the stock intel tim, it maybe outdated etc but still isnt that
bad tim compared to the other "newer" ones, you wont notice a very big difference when used on the ihs,
because of the bigger area, even using liquid pro ultra on the ihs, wont make a big difference compared to the other ones out there,
the whole "top15" tim's are within a range of 1-5C when used on the ihs..

the heat dissipation area on the die is alot smaller then the ihs,
thats where the w/mk kicks in, almost all "normal" tim's have about 2 to 10 w/mk,
where ultra has about 32, and pro about 82 w/mk
solder is somewhere between 30 and 60 w/mk, thats one of the reasons Sandy runs cooler then ivy,
besides the distance ihs/die on ivy..intels tim has about 1.5-2 w/mk if i remember right..

my personal experience is only with AS5 and liquid pro,
when i used AS5 on the die and ihs, i saw about 10C tempdrop, (reapplied twice)
when i used liquid pro after that, i saw another 15+C tempdrop smile.gif
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post #7245 of 33557
Pre delid



Post delid



Difference of 29C thumb.gif.
post #7246 of 33557
This is a message to all the delidders and future delidders!

Valgaur and I are in the middle of trying to make this club better than now. I have suggested we put another spreadsheet in the OP for people who have failed their delid, how many times they have failed, and whether they have succeeded in a different attempt.

Would this be good or something that will not appreciated? Answers would like to be given quickly so we don't waste time making something that won't help anyone.
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post #7247 of 33557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

This is a message to all the delidders and future delidders!
Valgaur and I are in the middle of trying to make this club better than now. I have suggested we put another spreadsheet in the OP for people who have failed their delid, how many times they have failed, and whether they have succeeded in a different attempt.
Would this be good or something that will not appreciated? Answers would like to be given quickly so we don't waste time making something that won't help anyone.

i think we should, i see no reason not to put up fails, "we learn from mistakes" right,
i would also put up the reasons why it failed, i can name a few why's,
but its better to have the original delid fail owners tell their story ..
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post #7248 of 33557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

This is a message to all the delidders and future delidders!
Valgaur and I are in the middle of trying to make this club better than now. I have suggested we put another spreadsheet in the OP for people who have failed their delid, how many times they have failed, and whether they have succeeded in a different attempt.
Would this be good or something that will not appreciated? Answers would like to be given quickly so we don't waste time making something that won't help anyone.

I've had 3 successful delids so I can't say I'd mind it haha. However I'm not sure how others would feel about being labeled as one of those who "failed."
post #7249 of 33557
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

This is a message to all the delidders and future delidders!
Valgaur and I are in the middle of trying to make this club better than now. I have suggested we put another spreadsheet in the OP for people who have failed their delid, how many times they have failed, and whether they have succeeded in a different attempt.
Would this be good or something that will not appreciated? Answers would like to be given quickly so we don't waste time making something that won't help anyone.

i think we should, i see no reason not to put up fails, "we learn from mistakes" right,
i would also put up the reasons why it failed, i can name a few why's,
but its better to have the original delid fail owners tell their story ..

Yea, I mostly recommended this because there were some people who were PMing me how many people failed at this mod.
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post #7250 of 33557
1. nervous
2. not confident, (what if)
3. not well prepared
4. working to fast, impatient
5. other reaosns, like socks and spilling fluid over ram etc..
6. using wrong equipment (pocket knife vid) ..lol
7. hmmmm..hmm, that about what comes to my mind smile.gif
Edited by VonDutch - 1/4/13 at 10:45pm
BamBam
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
amd 8350 my kids rig :) Gigabyte 990fxa-ud3 Gigabyte 7970 windforce Corsair Vengeance CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 
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500gb OZC vertex 4  Scythe Mugen 3 rev b windows 8.1 
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acer 23 inch logitech G510 XFX ProSeries 750W XXX Edition Cooler Master CM 690 II 
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BamBam
(17 items)
 
Pebbles
(14 items)
 
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
amd 8350 my kids rig :) Gigabyte 990fxa-ud3 Gigabyte 7970 windforce Corsair Vengeance CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
500gb OZC vertex 4  Scythe Mugen 3 rev b windows 8.1 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
acer 23 inch logitech G510 XFX ProSeries 750W XXX Edition Cooler Master CM 690 II 
MouseAudio
dell  Logitech X-530 
  hide details  
Reply
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