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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 727

post #7261 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

Yea, I mostly recommended this because there were some people who were PMing me how many people failed at this mod.

IMO the time would be better spent on a more complete how-to. I didn't do much wrong but it was still enough to fry the chip. If I knew how easy it is to scratch the pcb I would have been more careful.

I'm happy to be added to a "fail" list... I posted my experience here so ppl could learn from it. But honestly a list is just gonna scare ppl away because they still won't have the info to do it properly.
 
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post #7262 of 33576
I personally LOVE this review because they used mayonnaise, chocolate, lipstick, toothpaste, butter and spray oil in it. the best one I have ever seen, none others did biggrin.gif

Have you ever used ICD? spread method is the ONLY method that actually works best with it, period.
also try dot in middle method with CLU or CLP, LMAO, good luck ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Also, they test full load on stock voltage. That's a useless test.
You do realize that idle temps mean nothing, right? In the same sense, stock voltage means nothing too. Custom water loops will lose to HDT heatsinks, according to testing methodologies used by HardwareSecrets (Hdt is really, really good at idle temps and lower temp ranges and cheap as crap but are terrible for performance, although their performance/price is awesome, hence, hyper 212, and water loops are worse at idle and lower temp ranges).
They also do not control ambient temps. A change of 1*C in ambient temp is very likely going to be responsible for at least 2-5*C change in load temps (depending on the heat delta, of course), due to the exponential relationship of increased ambient temp on increased load temp.
Also... why is a benchmark published by a manufacturer being used? lol, you realize that's not exactly an unbiased article, right? Although it is correct that as5 is crap and icdiamond is much much better than it (and to be fair that was a sampling, not a test). I'm not sure why you quoted that though, unless you are saying that to agree with me that as5 is terrible?
Anyways, spread method is terrible. That's why you had such a problem. Spreading causes air bubbles to pop up when you put on the heatsink. That's what glass plate pressure applications have shown (its on youtube somewhere). Maybe that isn't the reason exactly, maybe it is, I just know in my tests, and other's tests, you tend to get way higher temps with spread instead of dot application. In my experience, I've had the best results when the TIM didn't even spread out to reach the entire IHS, you just need a small dot in the middle, and smooshed down so it spreads out and no air can get trapped in it.
I wonder how well CLU would work if you just applied it like normal paste, with rice grain/dot method. I know it is a bit different, i mean considering it's just freaking metal...

Edited by feniks - 1/4/13 at 11:49pm
post #7263 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

I wonder how well CLU would work if you just applied it like normal paste, with rice grain/dot method. I know it is a bit different, i mean considering it's just freaking metal...

If you've ever used CLP/CLU or seen it applied you'd realize it's a totally different animal. It comes out of the syringe in a ball and you can literally just move that ball around the heatsink without it losing it's shape unless you spread it. Simply putting a bit of it in the center of the IHS and then applying your heatsink would just force it off the IHS completely. It's too slick to be spread by heatsink pressure.
post #7264 of 33576
Yeah, liquid metal behaves differently. You GOTTA SPREAD IT, and ic diamond did the same thing for me. Had to heat up the syringe in boiling water, apply it and spread it a bit, let it cool down and mount the hsf.

Edit: go to sidewindercomputers.com and search for liquid pro there. It's much cheaper there.
Edited by ivanlabrie - 1/5/13 at 12:01am
post #7265 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by She loved E View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

Yea, I mostly recommended this because there were some people who were PMing me how many people failed at this mod.

IMO the time would be better spent on a more complete how-to. I didn't do much wrong but it was still enough to fry the chip. If I knew how easy it is to scratch the pcb I would have been more careful.

I'm happy to be added to a "fail" list... I posted my experience here so ppl could learn from it. But honestly a list is just gonna scare ppl away because they still won't have the info to do it properly.

I've thought of how to make my guide a bit more in-depth, but unfortunately, without another chip, I'm at a loss. Have you seen my guide by the way?
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post #7266 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

1. nervous
2. not confident, (what if)
3. not well prepared
4. working to fast, impatient
5. other reasons, like socks and spilling fluid over ram etc..
6. using wrong equipment (pocket knife vid) ..lol
7. hmmmm..hmm, that about what comes to my mind smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt-Matt View Post

To add to that if they practiced on P4's and Celerons and the like is another factor to include for sure! It really boosts your confidence also. smile.gif


yep, Val and i already put that one up on page 1 thumb.gif
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post #7267 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

LOL! LMAO! I love that comparison! biggrin.gif rep+
They used lipstick, butter, spray oil, toothpaste, mayonnaise and chocolate for comparison, awesome! ... and Rosewill thermal compound was worse than all those (except for chocolate) LOL!
However as per ICD (carat describes only size of syringe, nothing else), it could bean application problem, I personally spread it on the IHS with an old credit card, this way I was always getting around 5-8C better results then with any kind of application of MX-2. not sure why in this review it landed right by mayonnaise LOL!
CLU/CLP is beyond the scope honestly, too much depends on the application method I think since there is a big area to cover (IHS), I personally spread CLU with the included brush and it works great for me, not sure why people say it's not much better than PK-3 (which worked horribly for me on IHS, but worked well on GPU die - same good as CLU).

lol, me too..really, chocolate...haha
i only noticed it after download and search for some tests,
those where the first i came across while searching,
thing is, we/they only have tests that are running undelidded chip's,

we are about the only "group" that know what happens when you run tim's on a delidded chip,
and the real difference between using "normal" tim's and the liquid metal tim's..
its easy to say those tets dont mean a thing, or they are biased,
but you can say that about our delidded crew,
i know i always answer truthful if asked anything..

why would you use a dot method with a tim , when the manual says to spread it,
why spread it, when manual says, use dot or line method biggrin.gif
liquid pro/ultra need to be spread out, simple ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by JQuantum View Post

I'm using a now modded H100i, but it was the same for stock under stock after delid, and with the h100i unmodded. The H100i is bolted via individual M4 screws so I might just be me, but it was suffered issues prior to this. I've lapped both the IHS top, and bottom. I didn't really do the H100i copper piece though, but it doesn't look concave.
oh I had to stop using the LiquidPro, and using AS5 since it's thicker and easier to reapply quickly. The LP always gives me a nails on chalkboard feeling when I have to remove it, so I use a cotton swab with alcohol when I do (comes off quick if you do it this way).

i was wondering last nite, if you can use another cooler,
to check if it changes anything, if not,
then at least you know its not your H100i smile.gif

how and where did you lap the bottom of the IHS?
you still have liquid pro on the die ?
Edited by VonDutch - 1/5/13 at 12:36am
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post #7268 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

I've thought of how to make my guide a bit more in-depth, but unfortunately, without another chip, I'm at a loss. Have you seen my guide by the way?

Yeah I used it. For starters I'd add something about the sensitivity of the pcb and that ANY knicks can kill it. A recommended method for removing adhesive would also help (fingernail didn't work for me).

Generally, more links to tutorials (video for instance) woould be a plus.

It would also be good to add some content around tightening heatsinks after delid since multiple ppl have reported damage or other problems when overtightening.

I'd be happy to help compile these into more usable content if you want. I don't mean to criticise since your guide is good, but I think more detail would help.
 
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post #7269 of 33576
I'd like to just post again with how happy I am with my de-lid. Today the ambients have been much higher then usual (it's really hot, like so hot I can't go outside for too long). So hot my 3570k is idling at ~45c all day, it usually idles at 30-35c depending on the time of day. The load of a quick IBT is ~70c. I'm still amazed at how much it helped.

I'd suggest it to anyone that is into overclocking and likes to tweak with hardware thumb.gif
 
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post #7270 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffinMyLye View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Pre delid



Post delid


Difference of 29C thumb.gif.

Nice PuffinMyLye!

Did you every get to check your MB voltages?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

This is a message to all the delidders and future delidders!

Valgaur and I are in the middle of trying to make this club better than now. I have suggested we put another spreadsheet in the OP for people who have failed their delid, how many times they have failed, and whether they have succeeded in a different attempt.

Would this be good or something that will not appreciated? Answers would like to be given quickly so we don't waste time making something that won't help anyone.

There may be some value in doing so depending on how it is done. The main thing that seems to kill chips is scratching the pcb. Next would be bad remounting of the IHS when the clip is pulled onto it. Maybe better to just collect some data on % of failuers by type with overall numbers of each, but not by name (as I would be stuck on that list myself!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

1. nervous
2. not confident, (what if)
3. not well prepared
4. working to fast, impatient
5. other reaosns, like socks and spilling fluid over ram etc..
6. using wrong equipment (pocket knife vid) ..lol
7. hmmmm..hmm, that about what comes to my mind smile.gif

For me it was #6. Using the exacto knife instead of the razor blade lead to a small scratch on the pcb. Although others (VonDutch!) seemed fine with the exacto knife thing! I only use razor blades now and they work great.

Maybe we can keep track of what successful attempts have used too or instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by She loved E View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

Yea, I mostly recommended this because there were some people who were PMing me how many people failed at this mod.

IMO the time would be better spent on a more complete how-to. I didn't do much wrong but it was still enough to fry the chip. If I knew how easy it is to scratch the pcb I would have been more careful.

I'm happy to be added to a "fail" list... I posted my experience here so ppl could learn from it. But honestly a list is just gonna scare ppl away because they still won't have the info to do it properly.

These are good thoughts to consider by She loved E. A better and more complete how-to noting the best practices, as well as the major things to avoid doing. And if we are to show failed attempts, we need to consider how they are presented and in the context of all the successes too. People need to be aware of the risks (and we do tell them that even now), but we do not want to scare people off as it is really an easy process with such great results if done right. And we can find a way to teach then how to do it the right way better.
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