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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 732

post #7311 of 33641
Also, I'll just have you know that the shortest drop in temps was from using Liquid Pro @ 6*C, while the largest was 31*C from Liquid Ultra.

And it's utterly insane to compare thermal materials based on who get bigger temp drops when delidding and applying one paste over another. Not all delids are equal, as not all CPUs are as screwed up, and that doesn't factor in changes in paste, ambient, etc...

If one is better than the other, that's fine, I'm more than up for hearing facts on the matter, but liquid ultra is 'supposed' to be better, in that it's just an update to Liquid Pro.

This isn't like saying PK-2 is better than MX-4. It's like saying PK2 is better than PK1, which I think would be generally accepted.
Edited by Belial - 1/5/13 at 12:27pm
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post #7312 of 33641
Thread Starter 
to the 32nm question lol. I just haven't gotten rid of it lol.
post #7313 of 33641
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronicfx View Post

Nice. I have a 4.7 setting in bios and I am getting 65 degrees max with prime. So your temps are great, my vcore is 1.272v on load. But gaming it rarely cracks 50 degrees.

Very nice! I doubt when I game that my temps go above 45 at 4.7. I'm going to try pushing my OC up higher though when I get around to testing my actual voltage with the multimeter I just picked up.
post #7314 of 33641
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamstears View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Suppose you can add me to the club but at the same time I will share my experience

First of all, do I recommend deliding? NO!

Do I think people should delid? NO!

Heres my reason's

Firstly my Delid does seem to of been a success, everything seems to be working with no issues but I did make 2 tiny scratches to the pcb so I can see a little bit of gold instead of just green. Has this damaged anything? Who knows. It all seems to be working ok but I will prob never really know

Secondly, real world gains? For most of us NONE! Did it decrease temps? at a moderate overclock of 4.4? NO! I will do further testing though but considering I'm still hitting over 80C at only 4.4 I'm 99% sure this hasn't help

Will I ever delid again? NO!
Why? No real gains but can very easily damage a £240 CPU!

My advice for people who really feel the need to delid:

Make sure to use a very very thin blade that is very sharp
Be extremely careful and don't use any real force
Wiggle the blade gently and slowly, make sure it is flat to the PCB and in no way going to be pushed down towards the pcb
Still expect damage, It can very easily happen
Only really do it if you got the funds to replace it

Overall though I would not recommend this process to anyone, is it really worth the trouble for minimal gains? I would say no

The only people I would recommend to do it are those that can afford to replace if something goes wrong and only if there chip is able to do a moderate overclock at very low volts but still being hot

If you can do low volts and temps its fine leave it

If you can only do a low clock on high volts - get a different chip


My 2 cents

liamstears, I am sad your delidding has yet to produce the results you wanted, but do continue to ask questions and work with us before posting that it is something no one should do. You may be dissappointed, but work with us some to see what can be done for a bit.

First off, do as others have suggested and get some CL PRO or Ultra. These TIMs do make a major difference in temps for delidding - better than any others we have tried so far.

Second, if that does not drop temps enough, consider lapping your IHS. Many of us have found that they are concave/convex and not flat enough to make good contact with the die and HSF. If the IHS is flat, lapping will improve temps 1-3C, but if the IHS is not flat, you could gain 10-12C by lapping!

Also, maybe consider modifying your post above until you find out if delidding really is something you would not want anyone to try! smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
I personally LOVE this review because they used mayonnaise, chocolate, lipstick, toothpaste, butter and spray oil in it. the best one I have ever seen, none others did

Have you ever used ICD? spread method is the ONLY method that actually works best with it, period.
also try dot in middle method with CLU or CLP, LMAO, good luck ...
Quote:

Yea dot method might not work too well with some of the specialty stuff like CLU/CLP, but in general it's much better than spreading.

They might have mayonnaise/chocolate/etc in their review, but their benches are terribly inaccurate so it doesn't mean anything. They also are testing stock voltages - the true heat profiles of compounds does not reveal itself until you push the higher temp ranges and powers. A Hyper 212 EVO is also going to be one of the best performing heatsinks in the world

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-EVO-CPU-Cooler-Review/1407/6

Look, as consistent with the fact that HDT coolers outperform better coolers at lower temp ranges - they show the Hyper 212 Evo as being better than an NH-D14 (significanlty so) and Gamer Storm Assassin and Megahalems (which aren't great but still much better than 212)... When you start pushing higher temp ranges, the lower end products will fall by the wayside. Lipstick sounds okay in their benches, but if you put lipstick on a 4.5+ 1.3v+ sandy bridge your going to be sorry.
Quote:
Edit: go to sidewindercomputers.com and search for liquid pro there. It's much cheaper there.

Thanks but out of stock.
Quote:
why would you use a dot method with a tim , when the manual says to spread it,
why spread it, when manual says, use dot or line method
liquid pro/ultra need to be spread out, simple ..

Many companies say to use the spread method, it doesn't mean it's better. The spread method is terrible for thermal paste spreading, it's just idiot proof is all. But as I understand it CLU and other specialty pastes can't exactly be applied with dot method.
Quote:
This is a message to all the delidders and future delidders!

Valgaur and I are in the middle of trying to make this club better than now. I have suggested we put another spreadsheet in the OP for people who have failed their delid, how many times they have failed, and whether they have succeeded in a different attempt.

Would this be good or something that will not appreciated? Answers would like to be given quickly so we don't waste time making something that won't help anyone.

Please do so, because I've been trying to figure out how people have failed and I can't find it through 73 pages x 100 posts...
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamstears 
Secondly, real world gains? For most of us NONE! Did it decrease temps? at a moderate overclock of 4.4? NO! I will do further testing though but considering I'm still hitting over 80C at only 4.4 I'm 99% sure this hasn't help

yea at 4.4 ghz of course there's not going to be a difference if you delid...

Your also using a radial, low end cooler... being only in the 80's with basically a slightly improved stock cooler at 4.4ghz is pretty good.

It doesn't really sound like you know what you are doing, you shouldn't be making comments about how terrible delidding is if you can't do it right. Come back when you push 4.5+ ghz, 1.3v+, and get a decent tower, closed loop, or water cooling.

Also, MX-4 is not great paste. I wouldn't be surprised if the stock TIM was better. Why in the world would you use something as poor as MX-4 for a delid job. I'm getting a ton of crap just for saying I'm gonna use PK-3 instead of CLU/CLP for a delid job, and PK-3 is at least a few degrees better than MX-4.
Quote:
Ok sounds like I'm going with some Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra or Pro

But which to go for?

You should go for Ultra, not Pro. I don't know why anyone would recommend pro -_-

Ultra is literally just an updated version of pro. It's just superior, it's pro but much more convenient to use and the same, if not better, performance.

@Belial. You will quickly lose all credibility on this thread if you keep speaking without any knowledge - even faster here than other threads. Many of the people here do not just read reviews, but actually test things for themselves, and then share what they learn with others. If someone comes on here talking nosense we catch on very fast.

You give some examples above. So I can tell you why people on here recommend PRO over Ultra. I have actually tried CL PRO. I have actually tried CL Ultra. PRO will cool temps by 1-3C better than Ultra when used between the die and IHS. Ultra is better for removing easier. I know this because I have tested it. Others on here have tested it. We have shared our results. Our information is not just from a review.

So please refrain from making your statements like the ones above until you have spent more time actually learning from testing and, more importantly, from others who may know more than you.
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post #7315 of 33641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Also, I'll just have you know that the shortest drop in temps was from using Liquid Pro @ 6*C, while the largest was 31*C from Liquid Ultra.

And it's utterly insane to compare thermal materials based on who get bigger temp drops when delidding and applying one paste over another. Not all delids are equal, as not all CPUs are as screwed up, and that doesn't factor in changes in paste, ambient, etc...

If one is better than the other, that's fine, I'm more than up for hearing facts on the matter, but liquid ultra is 'supposed' to be better, in that it's just an update to Liquid Pro.

This isn't like saying PK-2 is better than MX-4. It's like saying PK2 is better than PK1, which I think would be generally accepted.

Dude, you really need to learn more before you talk......
Edited by PCWargamer - 1/5/13 at 12:50pm
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post #7316 of 33641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Also, I'll just have you know that the shortest drop in temps was from using Liquid Pro @ 6*C, while the largest was 31*C from Liquid Ultra.
And it's utterly insane to compare thermal materials based on who get bigger temp drops when delidding and applying one paste over another. Not all delids are equal, as not all CPUs are as screwed up, and that doesn't factor in changes in paste, ambient, etc...
If one is better than the other, that's fine, I'm more than up for hearing facts on the matter, but liquid ultra is 'supposed' to be better, in that it's just an update to Liquid Pro.
This isn't like saying PK-2 is better than MX-4. It's like saying PK2 is better than PK1, which I think would be generally accepted.

Like I said Ultra is better on an IHS. Did Cool Lab's design this thermal material to specifically go in between the die of a CPU and IHS? No, probably not. What Ultra does better than liquid Pro is fill larger spaces. PRO is really only effective at filling tiny microscopic spaces. That's why they recommend lapping your CPU surface and heatsink surface in the manual. Because it works better the smaller the gap. Ultra was designed to be more uniform and fill gaps regardless of lapping. Granted if you did lap, as with any TIM, it would work better. The difference is the thermal conductivity rating (W/m*K) and the PRO is higher.
post #7317 of 33641
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffinMyLye View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronicfx View Post

Nice. I have a 4.7 setting in bios and I am getting 65 degrees max with prime. So your temps are great, my vcore is 1.272v on load. But gaming it rarely cracks 50 degrees.

Very nice! I doubt when I game that my temps go above 45 at 4.7. I'm going to try pushing my OC up higher though when I get around to testing my actual voltage with the multimeter I just picked up.

I am very much interested in when you get to actually test your voltages PuffinMyLye. Ihave considered a board like yours and want to know how close the vcore readings are to a multimeter, especially considering the great vcore you get with your chips. You have changed my idea of what a good chip is with your last 3770K! Any feedback from the new owner yet?
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post #7318 of 33641
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffinMyLye View Post

I delidded my new 3570K last night and used CLP on both the die and IHS.
Here are my results. 29C drop ain't bad biggrin.gif.
great result biggrin.gif CLP all the way, hmm? hehe, nice, personally I wouldn't use it on the IHS (under cooling block) as it might be a pain to remove later on, but not necessarily so as some reported. anyways, nice result!
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffinMyLye View Post

It's my main rig. Picked up a 3570k to replace the 3770k I just parted with. Vcore is 1.282 under load. And it's under water.
not too shabby vcore, pretty fine for daily use. I guess it won't do 5GHz with 1.45V (or 1.38 as your former golden i7)? yeah, youre right, who cares about meaningless benching, if all we really do is use them daily while gaming or so heh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Yea dot method might not work too well with some of the specialty stuff like CLU/CLP, but in general it's much better than spreading.
They might have mayonnaise/chocolate/etc in their review, but their benches are terribly inaccurate so it doesn't mean anything. They also are testing stock voltages - the true heat profiles of compounds does not reveal itself until you push the higher temp ranges and powers. A Hyper 212 EVO is also going to be one of the best performing heatsinks in the world
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Cooler-Master-Hyper-212-EVO-CPU-Cooler-Review/1407/6
Look, as consistent with the fact that HDT coolers outperform better coolers at lower temp ranges - they show the Hyper 212 Evo as being better than an NH-D14 (significanlty so) and Gamer Storm Assassin and Megahalems (which aren't great but still much better than 212)... When you start pushing higher temp ranges, the lower end products will fall by the wayside. Lipstick sounds okay in their benches, but if you put lipstick on a 4.5+ 1.3v+ sandy bridge your going to be sorry.
Thanks but out of stock.
Many companies say to use the spread method, it doesn't mean it's better. The spread method is terrible for thermal paste spreading, it's just idiot proof is all. But as I understand it CLU and other specialty pastes can't exactly be applied with dot method.
Please do so, because I've been trying to figure out how people have failed and I can't find it through 73 pages x 100 posts...
yea at 4.4 ghz of course there's not going to be a difference if you delid...
Your also using a radial, low end cooler... being only in the 80's with basically a slightly improved stock cooler at 4.4ghz is pretty good.
It doesn't really sound like you know what you are doing, you shouldn't be making comments about how terrible delidding is if you can't do it right. Come back when you push 4.5+ ghz, 1.3v+, and get a decent tower, closed loop, or water cooling.
Also, MX-4 is not great paste. I wouldn't be surprised if the stock TIM was better. Why in the world would you use something as poor as MX-4 for a delid job. I'm getting a ton of crap just for saying I'm gonna use PK-3 instead of CLU/CLP for a delid job, and PK-3 is at least a few degrees better than MX-4.
You should go for Ultra, not Pro. I don't know why anyone would recommend pro -_-
Ultra is literally just an updated version of pro. It's just superior, it's pro but much more convenient to use and the same, if not better, performance.

why so serious buddy? wink.gif we all know that about reviews bias this way or another, testing conditions and CPu OC thermal output being higher than at stock (variable between chips) volts, it's not the first TIM review we've seen, I just enjoyed this one best and it makes it my favorite wink.gif ... we all did our own comparisons throughout years and used air cooling in past (personally I had 2 kinds of HDT before, were good but not great).

just chill out and enjoy the thread biggrin.gif
make benches under load at some moderate OC before delid, then delid it, make more benches and come back with your results biggrin.gif

honestly, try some CLU (again check sidewindercomputers.com for best price) if you can't find a decent pricde on CLP and you won't regret it, just use a VERY thin layer without any metallic bubbles on the CPU die and it will work great. have you checked the results on first page? really, it answers it all ... people get nearly same results with both CLP & CLU.
post #7319 of 33641
Quote:
@Belial. You will quickly lose all credibility on this thread if you keep speaking without any knowledge - even faster here than other threads. Many of the people here do not just read reviews, but actually test things for themselves, and then share what they learn with others. If someone comes on here talking nosense we catch on very fast.

You give some examples above. So I can tell you why people on here recommend PRO over Ultra. I have actually tried CL PRO. I have actually tried CL Ultra. PRO will cool temps by 1-3C better than Ultra when used between the die and IHS. Ultra is better for removing easier. I know this because I have tested it. Others on here have tested it. We have shared our results. Our information is not just from a review.

So please refrain from making your statements like the ones above until you have spent more time actually learning from testing and, more importantly, from others who may know more than you.

Okay, I stand corrected. I'm quite shocked that an update (ultra to the pro) would be worse, and that even the company recommends Ultra as better.
Quote:
honestly, try some CLU (again check sidewindercomputers.com for best price) if you can't find a decent pricde on CLP and you won't regret it, just use a VERY thin layer without any metallic bubbles on the CPU die and it will work great. have you checked the results on first page? really, it answers it all ... people get nearly same results with both CLP & CLU.

I have no doubt that both CLU/CLP are great and better than pk-3. I appreciate your input when you said you got a 10*C drop from PK-3 to CLU/P. It seems a little hard to believe that such a large temp drop would occur with any paste over PK-3 (or a similar up to date, high end paste), but from what I've read it seems differences are further magnified by use on-die. Maybe it's a little bit of both in your case (maybe 5*C improvement with CL, then the other 5*C is just better paste job?).

I don't mean to doubt you or question your abilities, but it just kind of shocks me (in my experience, it's very easy to use too much paste, which really hurts temps, but too little is almost impossible).

I think for now I'll use PK-3. If temps become a limiting factor (i dont even have a single component for my new build yet, mind you), I'll consider buying some CL before I get a new fan or anything.
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Intel X25-M 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 Noctua 120/140/140 Fans 3 x Yate Loon Mediums (Petras) 2 x NZXT Havik 140mm Fans 
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post #7320 of 33641
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

http://www.prolimatech.com/en/support/index.asp?itemid=20
http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/ss/intel_app_method_surface_spread_v1.1.pdf
Bam.
I know the company might say one thing, but real world tests show the spread method to be terrible. I even did multiple spread and dot/line/rice testing and found spread was the worst (although not nearly as bad as using too much paste, and it's nearly impossible to use too little paste).

BamBam wink.gif (looks at his sig)

thank you, but only 2, thats not many companies wink.gif

i used AS5 long time, and used it the way as described in their manual,
i never ran into problems using it, if anything goes wrong, i did something wrong right smile.gif

pk-1 i dont know,
i would still say, follow the manual if it says so, or in this case the FAQ,
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