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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 734

post #7331 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw33k View Post

I've yet to see anyone post actual comparisons between Ultra and Pro. If you have used both, as you claim, then can you post results? I personally don't believe Pro is better but am waiting for some to arrive so I can compare them both.
Some dude on the Xtreme Systems forums posts that Pro has a thermal conductivity of 82w/mk and Ultra has only 32w/mk and people believe it. He posted no sources to back his claim and most importantly Coollaboratory does not have this info on their website. I emailed them but they didn't reply. I found a webpage in German, where Coolabs are from which rates Ultra the same as Pro (http://www.pc-max.de/artikel/kuehlung/coollaboratory-liquid-ultra/5863) Without official data from Coollabs we can't really say. The only way to know for sure is to test them, which is what I'll be doing once the Liquid Pro arrives

Yeah its hard to find legit documentation on it. I meant "us" like the delidded crew as a whole. I have only used PRO. I bought PRO after looking at the table and on the OP and it seemed to have the best results on average. But don't go by that, sounds like you will have the means to do a side by side comparison soon. We look forward to your results.
post #7332 of 33576
Yeah, I can't wait for the Pro to arrive (will take a couple weeks unfortunately)

I just realised that I never posted my info to "officially" join:

OCN name: tw33k
CPU: 3770K
on die-TIM: Liquid Ultra
ihs-TIM: Liquid Ultra
Mhz gained: 200MHz
OC after delid: 5GHz
Temp drops: 20.5c
CPU-Z validation of max OC: http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2615429
post #7333 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw33k View Post

Yeah, I can't wait for the Pro to arrive (will take a couple weeks unfortunately)


I just realised that I never posted my info to "officially" join:
OCN name: tw33k
CPU: 3770K
on die-TIM: Liquid Ultra
ihs-TIM: Liquid Ultra
Mhz gained: 200MHz
OC after delid: 5GHz
Temp drops: 20.5c
CPU-Z validation of max OC: http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2615429

That's a helluva chip tweak! Assuming that's a prime stable? Not just a boot into windows
post #7334 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw33k View Post

Yeah, I can't wait for the Pro to arrive (will take a couple weeks unfortunately)

I just realised that I never posted my info to "officially" join:

OCN name: tw33k
CPU: 3770K
on die-TIM: Liquid Ultra
ihs-TIM: Liquid Ultra
Mhz gained: 200MHz
OC after delid: 5GHz
Temp drops: 20.5c
CPU-Z validation of max OC: http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2615429

Have you added tw33k. Now slap our banner onto your sig - and officially welcome to the crew! thumb.gif
3770K Gaming Sys
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770K 4.5GHz Asus Sabertooth Z77 EVGA Gtx560ti 448 FTW (2x SLI) 16GB Crucial Ballistic Tactical 1866 9-9-9-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
120GB SanDisk Extreme SSD  1TB WD Black Caviar  2TB Seagate Barracuda TSSTcorp cd/dvd/bd 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Coursair H80 Win7 64 Acer 27" Wide LCD HD Logitech Black Illuminated 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Coursair AX850 Cooler Master HAF 922  Kensington Yep! w/wristpad! 
AudioAudio
Xonar DX 7.1 PCIe Logitech Z906 5.1 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.5GHZ 24/7 Ausu P8Z68-M Pro ATI 5770 Kingston Blue 1333 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Sandisk Extream 120GB SSD 750GB HDD CD/DVD Cooler Master 212 EVO 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win7 64bit 22" Flat Screen (non-wide) Yes! Corsair GS600 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Cooler Master 912 Of course! nope intergrated & inexpensive speakers... 
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3770K Gaming Sys
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770K 4.5GHz Asus Sabertooth Z77 EVGA Gtx560ti 448 FTW (2x SLI) 16GB Crucial Ballistic Tactical 1866 9-9-9-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
120GB SanDisk Extreme SSD  1TB WD Black Caviar  2TB Seagate Barracuda TSSTcorp cd/dvd/bd 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Coursair H80 Win7 64 Acer 27" Wide LCD HD Logitech Black Illuminated 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Coursair AX850 Cooler Master HAF 922  Kensington Yep! w/wristpad! 
AudioAudio
Xonar DX 7.1 PCIe Logitech Z906 5.1 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.5GHZ 24/7 Ausu P8Z68-M Pro ATI 5770 Kingston Blue 1333 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Sandisk Extream 120GB SSD 750GB HDD CD/DVD Cooler Master 212 EVO 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win7 64bit 22" Flat Screen (non-wide) Yes! Corsair GS600 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Cooler Master 912 Of course! nope intergrated & inexpensive speakers... 
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post #7335 of 33576
I'm really hoping my new chip is better than this one. I will sell it for like $160 if anyone is interested. It wont get you crazy 5.0GHz+ OC's, but it is full functional and I do 4.5GHz all day under 75C with an Antec Kuhler.
post #7336 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickg1 View Post

I'm really hoping my new chip is better than this one. I will sell it for like $160 if anyone is interested. It wont get you crazy 5.0GHz+ OC's, but it is full functional and I do 4.5GHz all day under 75C with an Antec Kuhler.

Doubt you're gonna be able to sell it here in the delidded thread amonst people looking to push the limits but you'd probably have better luck just putting it in the for sale section.
post #7337 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffinMyLye View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronicfx View Post

If the review is correct the vcore should be .04 to .06 low in Cpu-z on our boards. Hopefully it was just sins board that was off.

Yea I've seen Sins review and while I do expect the actual vcore to be somewhat higher than CPUz and the ASRock utility are reading, I'm hoping it's not THAT big of a difference.

Me too! I'm hoping your true voltage is very close to CPU-Z as I like your chip having been so good! It was cool seeing a IB that good! thumb.gif
3770K Gaming Sys
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770K 4.5GHz Asus Sabertooth Z77 EVGA Gtx560ti 448 FTW (2x SLI) 16GB Crucial Ballistic Tactical 1866 9-9-9-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
120GB SanDisk Extreme SSD  1TB WD Black Caviar  2TB Seagate Barracuda TSSTcorp cd/dvd/bd 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Coursair H80 Win7 64 Acer 27" Wide LCD HD Logitech Black Illuminated 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Coursair AX850 Cooler Master HAF 922  Kensington Yep! w/wristpad! 
AudioAudio
Xonar DX 7.1 PCIe Logitech Z906 5.1 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.5GHZ 24/7 Ausu P8Z68-M Pro ATI 5770 Kingston Blue 1333 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Sandisk Extream 120GB SSD 750GB HDD CD/DVD Cooler Master 212 EVO 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win7 64bit 22" Flat Screen (non-wide) Yes! Corsair GS600 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Cooler Master 912 Of course! nope intergrated & inexpensive speakers... 
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3770K Gaming Sys
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3770K 4.5GHz Asus Sabertooth Z77 EVGA Gtx560ti 448 FTW (2x SLI) 16GB Crucial Ballistic Tactical 1866 9-9-9-24 1T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
120GB SanDisk Extreme SSD  1TB WD Black Caviar  2TB Seagate Barracuda TSSTcorp cd/dvd/bd 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Coursair H80 Win7 64 Acer 27" Wide LCD HD Logitech Black Illuminated 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Coursair AX850 Cooler Master HAF 922  Kensington Yep! w/wristpad! 
AudioAudio
Xonar DX 7.1 PCIe Logitech Z906 5.1 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
2500K 4.5GHZ 24/7 Ausu P8Z68-M Pro ATI 5770 Kingston Blue 1333 16GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Sandisk Extream 120GB SSD 750GB HDD CD/DVD Cooler Master 212 EVO 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win7 64bit 22" Flat Screen (non-wide) Yes! Corsair GS600 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Cooler Master 912 Of course! nope intergrated & inexpensive speakers... 
  hide details  
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post #7338 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuffinMyLye View Post

Doubt you're gonna be able to sell it here in the delidded thread amonst people looking to push the limits but you'd probably have better luck just putting it in the for sale section.

Yeah I thought maybe someone had a backup machine or HTPC or something. But yeah I'll sell it over at Tom's. I dont have enough rep to sell here.
post #7339 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by stickg1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

20*C drop at your reference test at 4.3ghz simply means you got huge results. And was that strictly from delidding, or because you applied CLU on both the IHS and die, maybe changed coolers? It wouldn't be fair to compare a 20*C drop from using CLU on both your die and IHS, to someone using MX-4 on his die and IHS... You could probably get close to 10*C drop using CLU vs MX-4 just on the IHS.
I may not have delidded an i5 yet, but you don't need to be so disrespectful towards me. I have done a ****ton of thermal testing with varying pastes (granted, not CLU) and heatsinks over the last few weeks, I've been around for a while (been here longer than you...). I am not saying anything huge here by saying that Liquid Ultra is an update to the Liquid Pro, it's on the company website. There is hardly 'proof' of pro being better than ultra.

My testing was done with the same IHS TIM, the same cooler, on the same system, with the same CPU using the same frequency and voltages. That is how you have a control in your testing and get valid results to compare one thing to another.

My testing was Antec Formula 7 Nano Diamond on die vs CL PRO on die though where I got 15C. From stock intel TIM to Antec 7 I got 6C. So that is 21C difference from stock. But it's had to directly compare because I can't go back in time and test directly against stock.

It's hard not to get annoyed with you. This is not the first thread where you try to argue peoples ACTUAL experience as being false over your mere speculations. You have never delidded a CPU, you have never owned an Ivy CPU, you have never used CL ULTRA or PRO. Yet you speak as you are the leading authority on the matter. It's arrogant and will get you nowhere in a thread like this.

Yes you have been a member of OCN for longer than me. I am new to OCN, I am not new to being a PC enthusiast. You can find me on other forums as well.

No one said anything about using PK-3 and CLU/P in here, except one guy. I think his advice was very useful, but you aren't him, and he wasn't many people, he was one guy.

If you want to recall the P67/Z68 vs Z77 discussion, well it's irrelevant because MC has a $40 bundle deal on their Z77 boards so I've dropped the issue, but still no one has given me a good response on that issue since, like in this case, no one has actually commented on whether p67/z68 is any worse than a z77 at overclocking IB. I think someone brought up a useful comment saying that z77 is going to have the newest and best so it'll probably be smoother, but no one has brought up any anecdotal evidence of z68/p67 not overclocking as well as z77.

And isn't delidding, the main drop is from rubbing off the glue and reducing that gap, not from the paste? I dont think you can say you got a 21*C difference from stock, you got a 21*C difference from getting rid of the gap, the main reason why delidding is so successful, and switching the tim (im sure responsible for a few degrees too). I'm a bit confused on what you are saying though, like did you rub off the glue and try the stock tim, then antec 7, and then clu.... either way you dont really seem to have any evidence against what I've been talking about.

You are speculating just as much, and I don't think I'm speculating at all. I'm sure CL is great stuff, I have no doubt about that. It's proven that it's the best stuff out there. And it would probably be worth it to buy CLU or CLP for a delid job. I'm simply saying I'm going to delid first with pk3 and if I nee dmore, I'll get CLU/CLP. I dont think that's a crime. I'm aware it wont be as good as CLU/CLP but people have shown even delidding with the stock paste on has yielded significant results. If you have feedback on PK3 vs CLU/CLP, I'd love to hear it, otherwise please, don't speculate on the matter either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vondutch 
maybe you didnt spread it well then

i will be looking forward to that thread,
you having your own thread would be good..lol

I've tried spread a few times and it was always terrible. it seems consistent with what others have had as results though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXLu1Ms-q4

I do think it's not really... real what they are doing here, but it's in line with what I've read, and in my experiences. Spread is disastrous.

1:50 for spread time btw.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1346069/belials-heatsink-tim-comparison-and-reviews-hyper-212-h50-nh-d14-pk-1-pk-2-pk-3/0_100
my thread, comparing pk1/pk2/pk3 and hyper 212/h50/nh-d14.
Quote:
Yeah its hard to find legit documentation on it. I meant "us" like the delidded crew as a whole. I have only used PRO. I bought PRO after looking at the table and on the OP and it seemed to have the best results on average. But don't go by that, sounds like you will have the means to do a side by side comparison soon. We look forward to your results.

surprise surprise, when you say clp > clu you were actually just speculating.

I think it's rather intuitive to believe the company who created both, and that clu is better than clp, since it's basically the same thing, but updated. Modern pastes are no longer about performance, it's all about ease of use, ie mx-4 vs mx-2, as5 being replaced by (i forget what), pk2 vs pk1, pk3 vs pk1, etc.

then again prolimatech says you should spread the paste so it wouldnt be the first time the company says something off

if anything i dont think there's evidence to say one way or the other on clp vs clu, if you really get down to it. it would be kind of odd if an update was worse than it's predecessor... although that's happened plenty of times in history.
Build In Progress
(17 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Haswell i7-4770K 4.8GHz@1.452v/1.97vRIN Gigabyte Z87X-UD3H Older Gigabyte 7950 (H60 Mod) 2x4GB Gskill 2400CL11 Hynix CFRs 
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Samsung 830 128gb Corsair H110 w/4x 140mm Yate Loon High Blues W7 x64 Ultimate Yarrgh Matey Dell U2312HM Matte IPS 1080p 
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Bitfenix Recon Fan Controller Moded 
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Rosewill Capstone 550w Modular NZXT Source 210 w/Modded Window Razer Deathadder 3.5G Steelseries Blizzcon D3 
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Phillips FW-C250 2 Speaker Set w/3 CD Changer JBL Sub 6 Subwoofer NZXT Sleeved LED Strip 1m Blue NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller 
Other
Colonial Blue Paracord Sleeving 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom ii X4 955C2, $31, 5 broken pins, works! ... Biostar A770e3 6.3 Red&Black MSI GTX 460 768mb Twin Frozr II 2 x 2GB Kingston HyperX 1333 OC to 1348CL7@1.65v 
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Jerryrigged VRM Heatsink (sawed off stock AM2 h... Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64bit Sanyo DP19640 19"1360x768 Ducky Cherry Browns 10keyless 
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Build In Progress
(17 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Haswell i7-4770K 4.8GHz@1.452v/1.97vRIN Gigabyte Z87X-UD3H Older Gigabyte 7950 (H60 Mod) 2x4GB Gskill 2400CL11 Hynix CFRs 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung 830 128gb Corsair H110 w/4x 140mm Yate Loon High Blues W7 x64 Ultimate Yarrgh Matey Dell U2312HM Matte IPS 1080p 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Sanyo DP19640 18.5" 768p KDS Rad-7xp 1024p CM Storm Quickfire Rapids Brown Rosewill Capstone 750 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Bitfenix Shinobi Modded CM Storm Spawn Steelseries Diablo 3 2 set CD Speaker + Big Sub 
Other
Bitfenix Recon Fan Controller Moded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Delidded i7-3770K 5GHz@1.499 Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H 1.1 Sapphire Dual-X 7950 3L Boost 4x2GB Mushkin Ridgeback 2200mhz 8/11/8/27 1.75v... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Intel X25-M 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 Noctua 120/140/140 Fans 3 x Yate Loon Mediums (Petras) 2 x NZXT Havik 140mm Fans 
OSMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64-bit Sanyo DP19640 19'' KDS Radius Rad-7xp 17'' Ducky 1087 MX Brown 10keyless 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Rosewill Capstone 550w Modular NZXT Source 210 w/Modded Window Razer Deathadder 3.5G Steelseries Blizzcon D3 
AudioAudioOtherOther
Phillips FW-C250 2 Speaker Set w/3 CD Changer JBL Sub 6 Subwoofer NZXT Sleeved LED Strip 1m Blue NZXT Sentry 2 Fan Controller 
Other
Colonial Blue Paracord Sleeving 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Phenom ii X4 955C2, $31, 5 broken pins, works! ... Biostar A770e3 6.3 Red&Black MSI GTX 460 768mb Twin Frozr II 2 x 2GB Kingston HyperX 1333 OC to 1348CL7@1.65v 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Intel X25-M G2 80GB SSD NH-D14 SE2011 6 x Case Fans (4 x YL-M, NZXT case fan, CM Hype... Jerryrigged Chipset-Northbridge 80mm HSF 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Jerryrigged VRM Heatsink (sawed off stock AM2 h... Hax'd W7 Ultimate 64bit Sanyo DP19640 19"1360x768 Ducky Cherry Browns 10keyless 
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post #7340 of 33576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

No one said anything about using PK-3 and CLU/P in here, except one guy. I think his advice was very useful, but you aren't him, and he wasn't many people, he was one guy.
If you want to recall the P67/Z68 vs Z77 discussion, well it's irrelevant because MC has a $40 bundle deal on their Z77 boards so I've dropped the issue, but still no one has given me a good response on that issue since, like in this case, no one has actually commented on whether p67/z68 is any worse than a z77 at overclocking IB. I think someone brought up a useful comment saying that z77 is going to have the newest and best so it'll probably be smoother, but no one has brought up any anecdotal evidence of z68/p67 not overclocking as well as z77.
And isn't delidding, the main drop is from rubbing off the glue and reducing that gap, not from the paste? I dont think you can say you got a 21*C difference from stock, you got a 21*C difference from getting rid of the gap, the main reason why delidding is so successful, and switching the tim (im sure responsible for a few degrees too). I'm a bit confused on what you are saying though, like did you rub off the glue and try the stock tim, then antec 7, and then clu.... either way you dont really seem to have any evidence against what I've been talking about.
You are speculating just as much, and I don't think I'm speculating at all. I'm sure CL is great stuff, I have no doubt about that. It's proven that it's the best stuff out there. And it would probably be worth it to buy CLU or CLP for a delid job. I'm simply saying I'm going to delid first with pk3 and if I nee dmore, I'll get CLU/CLP. I dont think that's a crime. I'm aware it wont be as good as CLU/CLP but people have shown even delidding with the stock paste on has yielded significant results. If you have feedback on PK3 vs CLU/CLP, I'd love to hear it, otherwise please, don't speculate on the matter either.
surprise surprise, when you say clp > clu you were actually just speculating.
I think it's rather intuitive to believe the company who created both, and that clu is better than clp, since it's basically the same thing, but updated. Modern pastes are no longer about performance, it's all about ease of use, ie mx-4 vs mx-2, as5 being replaced by (i forget what), pk2 vs pk1, pk3 vs pk1, etc.
then again prolimatech says you should spread the paste so it wouldnt be the first time the company says something off
if anything i dont think there's evidence to say one way or the other on clp vs clu, if you really get down to it. it would be kind of odd if an update was worse than it's predecessor... although that's happened plenty of times in history.

What were the main problems people had with PRO in the first place?

1. It's difficult to remove without sanding the metals that contact it.
2. It doesn't fill larger gaps so lapping is required to get maximum performance.

So lets look at this from an economical/marketing stand-point. CoolLabs takes this feedback, spends money to develop a better product, they have to add more chemicals to said product, thus production cost rises. So now they have to sell this stuff for more than the PRO. Well if it's not better than the PRO but it costs more for the consumer, how do they sell it? I'll tell you how, market it as an updated version of the PRO. People say, "Wow, the PRO was pretty good but now they released the Ultra, it must be better." And in some cases with heatsink and IHS, it is better. But when you do a side by side comparison on a direct die, you get results like this guy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCWargamer View Post

So I can tell you why people on here recommend PRO over Ultra. I have actually tried CL PRO. I have actually tried CL Ultra. PRO will cool temps by 1-3C better than Ultra when used between the die and IHS. Ultra is better for removing easier. I know this because I have tested it. Others on here have tested it. We have shared our results. Our information is not just from a review.

I didn't remove the glue. Maybe that's why I only got a 20C drop...

I'm done with the pissing war. Cut your chip, put on your PK3, post your results.
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