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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 83

post #821 of 33417
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanlabrie View Post

Man, if you're gonna waste that awesome ram kit like that I'll trade you mine, 1.35v Samsung Green 2x4gb kit and some bucks lol
QFT
I'd suspect of that mobo btw...sounds fishy.

nah, not wasting this RAM like that LOL! just testing for a few days some theory I heard from an Intel Customer Rep stating that running 1.65v ram kit damages the IMC over time LOL! I call it BS, as none IMCs on any of chips I had never ever suffered anything from that 1.65V.

I just want to rule it out and be sure it doesn't somehow affect core degradation that I am seeing here on second chip and second (different brand) board. truth though is that both chips ran on same Z77 FTW board initially which was in deed faulty (both hardware and BIOS issues which were common to certain batches only), sent it back for a refund, hence why I am running ASUS MVE now wink.gif

I am kinda stumped on this core degradation, perhaps t was started by that faulty mobo in first place while running "VDROOP DISABLED" setting (equalling to 100% LLC) and now just the chain reaction continues despite using offset vcore and EIST? perhaps I should start fresh with a new chip and most likely won't ever see a problem again ... it gets me wondering ... might use Intel's Performance Tuning plan finally after this weekend and delid the new chip once it comes in... will be a heck of a surprise though if the new one turns out a bad clocker LOL!
post #822 of 33417
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

nah, not wasting this RAM like that LOL! just testing for a few days some theory I heard from an Intel Customer Rep stating that running 1.65v ram kit damages the IMC over time LOL! I call it BS, as none IMCs on any of chips I had never ever suffered anything from that 1.65V.
I just want to rule it out and be sure it doesn't somehow affect core degradation that I am seeing here on second chip and second (different brand) board. truth though is that both chips ran on same Z77 FTW board initially which was in deed faulty (both hardware and BIOS issues which were common to certain batches only), sent it back for a refund, hence why I am running ASUS MVE now wink.gif
I am kinda stumped on this core degradation, perhaps t was started by that faulty mobo in first place while running "VDROOP DISABLED" setting (equalling to 100% LLC) and now just the chain reaction continues despite using offset vcore and EIST? perhaps I should start fresh with a new chip and most likely won't ever see a problem again ... it gets me wondering ... might use Intel's Performance Tuning plan finally after this weekend and delid the new chip once it comes in... will be a heck of a surprise though if the new one turns out a bad clocker LOL!

Intel also said there was no Tim under the IHS that is was solder rolleyes.gif
    
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post #823 of 33417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

Intel also said there was no Tim under the IHS that is was solder rolleyes.gif

LOL! true, I heard such opinions from CS as well hehe .. they mostly don't know what they are talking about or not understanding the complexity of it unless you are actually talking to an engineer (II/II level support).

anyways! I just discovered I made a serious mistake in vcore comparison before and after!!! somehow I remembered the under load vcore wrong at 4.6GHz! I thought it used to be 1.212v under load at 4.6GHz, no it wasn't!
back then I used 100% LLC and 1.2v vcore setting in BIOS, just double checked it and it generates (overshoots) up to 1.24v under load (gives me WHEA warnings now though, wasn't the case in past), my bad doh.gif ...

... and so the "degradation" is only probably within 2-4 notches on vcore/offset (each "notch" defined as 0.005v) ... nothing more ... still it happened, but I think I did it by stress testing it close to or sometimes at thermal limits, can live with that wink.gif

... now restabilizing the 4.6GHz using exact same settings as before (fixed vcore, 100% LLC, same memory speed/timings/volts) to compare directly. some slight degradation happened, but it's not nearly as vast as I was afraid of, phew devil-smiley-019.gif
Edited by feniks - 10/16/12 at 6:02pm
post #824 of 33417
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

LOL! true, I heard such opinions from CS as well hehe .. they mostly don't know what they are talking about or not understanding the complexity of it unless you are actually talking to an engineer (II/II level support).
anyways! I just discovered I made a serious mistake in vcore comparison before and after!!! somehow I remembered the under load vcore wrong at 4.6GHz! I thought it used to be 1.212v under load at 4.6GHz, no it wasn't!
back then I used 100% LLC and 1.2v vcore setting in BIOS, just double checked it and it generates (overshoots) up to 1.24v under load (gives me WHEA warnings now though, wasn't the case in past), my bad doh.gif ...
... and so the "degradation" is only probably within 2-4 notches on vcore/offset (each "notch" defined as 0.005v) ... nothing more ... still it happened, but I think I did it by stress testing it close to or sometimes at thermal limits, can live with that wink.gif
... now restabilizing the 4.6GHz using exact same settings as before (fixed vcore, 100% LLC, same memory speed/timings/volts) to compare directly. some slight degradation happened, but it's not nearly as vast as I was afraid of, phew devil-smiley-019.gif

I donno but one would think to see signs of degrading in only afew weeks Vcore such as 1.8v would be needed... With something like 1.6v it should last a long time.. with 1.55 afew years...

Cpu is not a GPU .. Gpu degrade very easy Cpu's are pretty tough.
    
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post #825 of 33417
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

LOL! true, I heard such opinions from CS as well hehe .. they mostly don't know what they are talking about or not understanding the complexity of it unless you are actually talking to an engineer (II/II level support).
anyways! I just discovered I made a serious mistake in vcore comparison before and after!!! somehow I remembered the under load vcore wrong at 4.6GHz! I thought it used to be 1.212v under load at 4.6GHz, no it wasn't!
back then I used 100% LLC and 1.2v vcore setting in BIOS, just double checked it and it generates (overshoots) up to 1.24v under load (gives me WHEA warnings now though, wasn't the case in past), my bad doh.gif ...
... and so the "degradation" is only probably within 2-4 notches on vcore/offset (each "notch" defined as 0.005v) ... nothing more ... still it happened, but I think I did it by stress testing it close to or sometimes at thermal limits, can live with that wink.gif
... now restabilizing the 4.6GHz using exact same settings as before (fixed vcore, 100% LLC, same memory speed/timings/volts) to compare directly. some slight degradation happened, but it's not nearly as vast as I was afraid of, phew devil-smiley-019.gif

You can't compare volts between two different boards like that man...Sensors are not accurate nor VRM's are of the same quality.
Unless you measured vcore using a multimeter, you can't just scream 'DEGRADATION!" like that tongue.gif

EDIT: And don't believe Intel's support...they supply you with a testing utility which is tailored for old school fsb capable chips lol All Sandy/Ivy chips will be defective according to that tool, cause neither can do 133mhz bclk biggrin.gif
post #826 of 33417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

I donno but one would think to see signs of degrading in only afew weeks Vcore such as 1.8v would be needed... With something like 1.6v it should last a long time.. with 1.55 afew years...
Cpu is not a GPU .. Gpu degrade very easy Cpu's are pretty tough.
yeah, true ... however I'd think the difference of 0.02v between virgin stock chip and chip that have run 5GHz ... is acceptable to me, I call it "burning in" ... however if trend continues than that would suck (chain reaction in progress) ... and that's exactly what happened to my initial chip and it took 8 weeks only to degrade from 1.35v up to 1.45v under load for same clock (4.8Ghz) ... but that was on a different board and with a different chip. 4 days to go to decide between RMA vs deliding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanlabrie View Post

You can't compare volts between two different boards like that man...Sensors are not accurate nor VRM's are of the same quality.
Unless you measured vcore using a multimeter, you can't just scream 'DEGRADATION!" like that tongue.gif
EDIT: And don't believe Intel's support...they supply you with a testing utility which is tailored for old school fsb capable chips lol All Sandy/Ivy chips will be defective according to that tool, cause neither can do 133mhz bclk biggrin.gif
I am comparing observations on same board. whatever I achieved on z77 ftw is past and null, taking into account only my notes and records written down for this very same board I am running now, sorry if I wasn't clear about that.

LOL about that intel tool! what is the name of it?
i used a few times the Intel Diagnostics tool, but it worked fine hehe, it even uses something like prim95 to generate the load on cpu during testing:
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Detail_Desc.aspx?agr=Y&DwnldID=19792

works fine on SB/IB. however it gives false positives sometimes, e.g. when you have a corrupted entry for a hard drive deivce in registry (or Device Manager), it will state the CPU is faulty, because it cannot communicate with a SATA controller LOL!
Edited by feniks - 10/16/12 at 6:30pm
post #827 of 33417
Saw a bunch of guys at the Ivy Stable club use that bug to get new chips...xD
post #828 of 33417
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanlabrie View Post

Saw a bunch of guys at the Ivy Stable club use that bug to get new chips...xD
LOL! haha, that's funny of Intel to actually accept such claims LOL! biggrin.gif
post #829 of 33417
all right, good news! by confirming actual lowest reached voltages under load (kept observing CPU-Z while running IBT Standard 10 rounds) I was able to narrow down the "degradation" to a mere 0.008v under load LOL! meaning that upping the actual under load vcore by only 0.008v fixed the slight instability (WHEA warnings are no more).

it does take 3-4 notches up on vcore in BIOS, but actual vcore reacts differently (1st notch up = nearly no change, 2nd & 3rd borderline change still dipping to old unstable value sometimes, finally the 4th one makes a firm change to lowest observed vcore under load). that being sad, problem is minimal here and could actually be related to MB and not CPU at all wink.gif
deliding that sucker on Saturday, just waiting for Liquid Ultra to come in biggrin.gif
Edited by feniks - 10/16/12 at 6:49pm
post #830 of 33417
Good luck! Do it carefully and with proper equipment...Single bladed razor, a very thin one is ideal. But It'd be good if it doesn't bend too.
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