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post #8261 of 33555
chronicfx already fixed the issue had a nice drop too thumb.gif
post #8262 of 33555
Question About Degradation.

I have 2 I7 3770k's.

1 for my wife's build and 1 for mine (Identical builds but hers has a 1tb hhd for pictures and video.

My CPU was a lot "luckier" than hers.

at 1.3v I can 24 hour prime stable (more or less) at 4.7ghz (Not amazing but i would say above average for an i73770k.

Hers was not so great. 4.4 at 1.3v and I havent even checked that for stability, her temps are also a bit higher. I am going to delid Both.

My worry is degradation.

We are already at 1.3v. which is widely considered the limit prior to hardware degradation.

I would be satisfied with a 4.7ghz overclock on 1.3v as long as my delid gets me out of the 80c range tempwise. (but knowing me I will push for 5) also why i need to know about hardware degradation)

But more importantly, she is at 4.4ghz at 1.3v. Delidding will drop temps but 4.4 isn't good enough for me. it makes me sad inside. I want to get 4.7 at the least. This is obviously going to require a lot of voltage since she got what i would call a underachieving chip.

My questions are as follows:

What is the average lifespan of an i7 3770k with 1.3v?

And for 1.35v?

And for 1.4v?

And for 1.45v?

And finally for 1.5v?

We are both using h100i Water cooling and I will be delidding and using CL LP on the die Artic Silver 5 on the IHS.

Another related question, I have my fans ramped from 75 factory default in mobo to 150 (max). It has made me noisier (Dont Care) but Is it really necessary? I dont want to wear them out for no reason if I could avoid it and be quieter (Quiet only really matters if doing it at all is a waste of time).

I am willing to let hardware degredation exist for a higher overclock as most of us here are. But I am having a hard time getting concrete information regarding this issue.

With more solid information on how much life I am taking from my chip I would be able to make an educated decision on how high I personally would want to push voltage.

Reliable Information is hard to come by on the internet. There is no shortage of people saying "Dude you can go 105c on hottest core, 1.5v NP, didnt you read intels information on the subject?"

And there is also no shortage of people saying "(Oh NOES go above 60c And you are FRYING YOUR CHIP DUDE!! FRYING IT! ( lol ) and STOCK VOLTAGE OR YOU ARE GOING TO BE BUYING A NEW ONE REAL SOON!!!

I am looking for either "concrete evidence of the truth" <- LOL

But more likely "an average consensus based on user reports" - Which I can then use to make a solid decision and then get on with my life. lol

And this is just speculative random conversation to add to my TLDR Text wall but, "Wouldn't Intel stand to gain by selling "Overachieving Chips" at a higher price point and thus allow the overclockers (SMALL percentage of the chip buying population) the opportunity to benefit from the better chips? I mean somewhere out there is like 100 noobs who dont know how to take off thier case running stock cooler stock settings on a chip that could overclock to 7ghz.... and that makes babies and small kittens cry.

And to be redundant and answer my own question, I will say, it makes sense that a company (Although a Great Company) that would knowingly sell "Hot" Chips to the masses instead of fixing a die issue, thus completely disregarding the overclocking population in the process, would not give two squigly ****s about how good those hot chips could be... lol.

I am anal so my personal opinion is that we should be able to send them to intel for delidding at intels cost. Or not void our warranty by delidding. They could see if there is damage and if there isnt warranty the chip... but that would require work.
post #8263 of 33555
VonDutch these XFX Pro are good PSU's price/performance, the 750w should do OK for 7970 CFX But take a look at Antec HCG 750w, SEASONIC BRONZE M12II-750 MODULAR and CORSAIR TX-750M MODULAR, if you can go for the Seasonic one
post #8264 of 33555
Psu question... My corsair hx850 is going on 2 years now. How long should you run these before thinking about replacement. I have sli gpu's and an overclocked processor. After I did my 24 hour prime my wife left the windows open in the room for the rest of the day saying there was a melty burnt smell coming from the computer. I could not smell it but it did make me think capacitor. Or wire laying on something hot? Not sure. Thoughts anyone?
post #8265 of 33555
Oh and one more thing.

I am using a TX650 Corsair.

Would a High Watt Overclock possibly run me into power issues?

If that is the case I should probably rma before its to late.
post #8266 of 33555
chronicfx PSU's are fine until they fail no problem in using it for 5/6years if it works ok it works simple as that.

Kolt21 Are you running SLI or CFX? If not no problems at all if you are maybe the PSU is not strong enough to sustain all the Overclock (CPU VGA's and Mem)
post #8267 of 33555
Quote:
Originally Posted by [CyGnus] View Post

chronicfx PSU's are fine until they fail no problem in using it for 5/6years if it works ok it works simple as that.

Kolt21 Are you running SLI or CFX? If not no problems at all if you are maybe the PSU is not strong enough to sustain all the Overclock (CPU VGA's and Mem)

just running a normal gtx 660ti. dont plan to overclock or anything.

and isnt overclocking memory with a i7 3770k pointless except for cold benching?
post #8268 of 33555
Quote:
Originally Posted by [CyGnus] View Post

VonDutch these XFX Pro are good PSU's price/performance, the 750w should do OK for 7970 CFX But take a look at Antec HCG 750w, SEASONIC BRONZE M12II-750 MODULAR and CORSAIR TX-750M MODULAR, if you can go for the Seasonic one

yea, seasonic, i hear good things about them, and when i bought the XFX, and did some research,
alot of other psu's have parts from them in it also, they cost a bit more then the XFX tho ..thanks smile.gif
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post #8269 of 33555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolt21 View Post

Question About Degradation.

I have 2 I7 3770k's.

1 for my wife's build and 1 for mine (Identical builds but hers has a 1tb hhd for pictures and video.

My CPU was a lot "luckier" than hers.

at 1.3v I can 24 hour prime stable (more or less) at 4.7ghz (Not amazing but i would say above average for an i73770k.

Hers was not so great. 4.4 at 1.3v and I havent even checked that for stability, her temps are also a bit higher. I am going to delid Both.

My worry is degradation.

We are already at 1.3v. which is widely considered the limit prior to hardware degradation.

I would be satisfied with a 4.7ghz overclock on 1.3v as long as my delid gets me out of the 80c range tempwise. (but knowing me I will push for 5) also why i need to know about hardware degradation)

But more importantly, she is at 4.4ghz at 1.3v. Delidding will drop temps but 4.4 isn't good enough for me. it makes me sad inside. I want to get 4.7 at the least. This is obviously going to require a lot of voltage since she got what i would call a underachieving chip.

My questions are as follows:

What is the average lifespan of an i7 3770k with 1.3v?

And for 1.35v?

And for 1.4v?

And for 1.45v?

And finally for 1.5v?

We are both using h100i Water cooling and I will be delidding and using CL LP on the die Artic Silver 5 on the IHS.

Another related question, I have my fans ramped from 75 factory default in mobo to 150 (max). It has made me noisier (Dont Care) but Is it really necessary? I dont want to wear them out for no reason if I could avoid it and be quieter (Quiet only really matters if doing it at all is a waste of time).

I am willing to let hardware degredation exist for a higher overclock as most of us here are. But I am having a hard time getting concrete information regarding this issue.

With more solid information on how much life I am taking from my chip I would be able to make an educated decision on how high I personally would want to push voltage.

Reliable Information is hard to come by on the internet. There is no shortage of people saying "Dude you can go 105c on hottest core, 1.5v NP, didnt you read intels information on the subject?"

And there is also no shortage of people saying "(Oh NOES go above 60c And you are FRYING YOUR CHIP DUDE!! FRYING IT! ( lol ) and STOCK VOLTAGE OR YOU ARE GOING TO BE BUYING A NEW ONE REAL SOON!!!

I am looking for either "concrete evidence of the truth" <- LOL

But more likely "an average consensus based on user reports" - Which I can then use to make a solid decision and then get on with my life. lol

And this is just speculative random conversation to add to my TLDR Text wall but, "Wouldn't Intel stand to gain by selling "Overachieving Chips" at a higher price point and thus allow the overclockers (SMALL percentage of the chip buying population) the opportunity to benefit from the better chips? I mean somewhere out there is like 100 noobs who dont know how to take off thier case running stock cooler stock settings on a chip that could overclock to 7ghz.... and that makes babies and small kittens cry.

And to be redundant and answer my own question, I will say, it makes sense that a company (Although a Great Company) that would knowingly sell "Hot" Chips to the masses instead of fixing a die issue, thus completely disregarding the overclocking population in the process, would not give two squigly ****s about how good those hot chips could be... lol.

I am anal so my personal opinion is that we should be able to send them to intel for delidding at intels cost. Or not void our warranty by delidding. They could see if there is damage and if there isnt warranty the chip... but that would require work.

thats funny, ever wondered why intel gives a 3 year warranty, thats what they "guarantee" the chip will run...lol
anything after that, is over the expected life span..lol
ive read something about, degradation, high temps and vcore, high temps is worse when it comes to degradation, then vcore is..
lets see if i can find it again ...wait..

As soon as you concede that overclocking by definition reduces the useful lifetime of any CPU, it becomes easier to justify its more extreme application. It also goes a long way to understanding why Intel has a strict "no overclocking" policy when it comes to retaining the product warranty. Too many people believe overclocking is "safe" as long as they don't increase their processor core voltage - not true. Frequency increases drive higher load temperatures, which reduces useful life. Conversely, better cooling may be a sound investment for those that are looking for longer, unfailing operation as this should provide more positive margin for an extended period of time.

here you can see that the high temps over a long period of time will give more degration then the vcore at max specs, and a cooler running cpu will live longer then both ...lol

found it, heres a nice read guys,
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2468/6

anyways, a delidded (hot ivy) chip is the best thing,
you can run it alot cooler, at higher vcores, and still have it for a long time..lol
about the vcore, well, its upto you really, intel doesnt give a specific max vcore,
but the VID range thats in the data sheets from intel, says 1.52V,
which is considered to be the max vcore you can run 24/7, if temps permit,



like someone on this forum mentioned to me, when i was asking about max vcore etc,
and that it is nowhere to find in any data sheet from intel, he said,

"I know for prior generations, the maximum allowable VID from the factory was considered
the maximum voltage for the processor. Not that that max VID was ever really spotted in the wild
for consumer usage. LGA775 was max of 1.45V VID, and that was widely considered the maximum you
should operate in a 24/7 environment, and that is obviously temperature permitting"

Sin0822 in his guide says,

On Air/Water: Intel Rec. Max is Intel’s absolute maximum rating for the Ivy Bridge lineup, many of the numbers provided are identical to those of Sandy Bridge, however while vcore should be lower because of a better processing technology (22nm vs 32nm) it is max 1.52v here because of the SVID max. When overclocking on air the only two voltages you should need to touch on an Ivy Bridge setup are the Vcore (which you increase) and the CPU PLL( which can be decreased to help temperatures). You should not proceed to just apply the maximum voltage for the vcore, vtt, or system agent as you will heavily increase the temperature so much so that the CPU will throttle and can be damaged. Also if you start off with a higher temperature it is very hard to test stability, as you will probably be more unstable than if you used a lower VCore.

but the recommended range on air/water in the graph is 1.3-1.45V vcore ..see smile.gif
keep it in that range and youll be fine for years to come, im sure, if temps permit of course,
lower temps=longer life biggrin.gif
i dont care what others think haha wink.gif

phew, thats a long post, but you started with a long one Kolt21,
hope this is enough info to help you decide what vcore you should run etc smile.gif
Edited by VonDutch - 1/14/13 at 7:49am
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post #8270 of 33555
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

thats funny, ever wondered why intel gives a 3 year warranty, thats what they "guarantee" the chip will run...lol
anything after that, is over the expected life span..lol
ive read something about, degradation, high temps and vcore, high temps is worse when it comes to degradation, then vcore is..
lets see if i can find it again ...wait..

found this already, now the site

here you can see that the high temps over a long period of time will give more degration then the vcore at max specs, and a cooler running cpu will live longer then both ...lol

And this is why I am like ***....

You are saying temperature is the cause of degredation, and on this very same forum I read this huge ass post about, high temps arent going to cause degredation but going over 1.3v will definately cause it.
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