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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 886

post #8851 of 33804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

On a side note, I don't think w/mk is everything when it comes to thermal transfer to pastes. I'm still not sold CLP is better than CLU until I see a bench comparing the 2. I'll email Coollaboratory and see what they have to say. I mean Ultra is supposed to be Pro version 2.0, I still can't imagine it's a downgrade (wouldn't be the first time that's happened in history though).

I've sent 3 emails to Coollaboratory asking them to confirm the heat conductivity values for both Pro and Ultra but they haven't replied. Hopefully you have more luck
post #8852 of 33804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

On a side note, I don't think w/mk is everything when it comes to thermal transfer to pastes. I'm still not sold CLP is better than CLU until I see a bench comparing the 2. I'll email Coollaboratory and see what they have to say. I mean Ultra is supposed to be Pro version 2.0, I still can't imagine it's a downgrade (wouldn't be the first time that's happened in history though).

They made ultra on the note that pro was too hard to remove. The formula for ultra apparently is a little degraded compared to pro. There is such a small difference I just went for ultra to.
post #8853 of 33804
Thread Starter 
Oh man lots of info to be typed today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

omg, a gf is visiting in 15 min, how do i look guys, my hair ok like this?


BBL, i hope later later ...hehe...
well, cant hurt to try right ..gl thumb.gif

Go get em boy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totally Dubbed View Post

hahaha "a gf" - so now I've met two players at OCUK -> both being de-lidders....
Wait a minute....does that mean if I de-lid women come running?

STRIP THAT IHS! haha
Sir alex is playing on the defensive.

Oh God why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by $ilent View Post

Could I join this illustrious club? I dont have any pics (stupidly forgot to take one) and I cant show pre delid temps though.


Yes you may as long as you fill out the OP required information as much as you can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jassilamba View Post

Guys question for you regarding the setup on my Monster Rig in my sig.

I picked up a 3770K last week for $205 at micro center. I was able to take it to 5 GHZ (Validation) @ 1.5V, going to bring it down to to 1.4 to see where I can find a sweet spot. Anyways I'm going to delid the chip prolly this weekend or when the liquid pro comes in the mail. My temps are getting up to 90 (under water and under load), does that sound right for an ivy bridge or is that too hot (thinking if I should return it saying it runs too hot, ppl have done that and able to get a better chip).

If those temps sound okay, then I will go ahead an delid the CPU.

My ambient temps are around 22.78C

and here is how things look at idle: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Thanks guys and I apologize if other have already asked this.

No problem on the repeat question. You are right by one thought that yes the temps are far to hot. and yes you should delid and like Von said the ambients don't really matter it's the load temps that we need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by $ilent View Post

I think mostly over 1.3v results in high temps on ivy bridge so a delid would work well here.

From what I've read anyways.

Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilchronic View Post

i raised it cause munually its at 1.832v i put it to 1.88v

Stay lower if possible move your vcore up instead of PLL. PLL is kinda scary near that 1.9 area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

oki, you prolly know this, but stay under 1.9V

what Von said as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solonowarion View Post

I just put a waterblock on my 670. It is a bare die. Which makes me think. Should I have used some my CL Ultra instead of mx-4?

Yes CLP is the best TIM out there it works on everything. except certain metals on the Heat sinks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

i like my background smile.gif
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
reminds me of ..me when i was little and reading books, i traveled everywhere in my mind, saw what i read ..lol imagination is a great thing..pity we loose it when we grow up, well most of us anyways biggrin.gif

wow, talk about OT ...sorry haha, but it looks like the guy with the ax is gonna delid something wink.gif

I love that background! might have to throw that on mine once I get this baby running again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by megawatz View Post

Does anybody know or understand why that once you delid your processor that your vCore changed? I can't get stable at 1.33v anymore. I was stable at 1.33v for about 15hrs, and now I can't get past two hours. I'm concerned about this.

yes actually. There have been reports by a few people that I know where a slight static shock did it. but also instability can happen at any time. it really can. Stability is based on the current computers standing and background programs so any updates or program changes can completely change this if even slightly. but if the change in vcore is anything under .04-.05 vcore then don't worry it happens sometimes. if it's around .6 area then a slight static shock could have hit the golden pads on the bottom of the CPU. Keep me posted or PM me if you feel more work is needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight26 View Post

Ok, I delidded my 3770K last weekend and I have been pretty disappointed in the results. The best stable overclock that I could get before delidding was 4.4ghz @ 1.295v. I was hitting upper 80's on the hottest core while the others stayed in the mid-70's using an Antec Kuhler 620 with push/pull fans. One core almost never reaches 70C. I didn't want to push anymore than that cause I didn't like the temps and I couldn't get 4.5ghz stable at the same voltage.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
So I upgraded to a custom loop with 2 EK radiators, a cool stream XT 240 in the front and XT 120 in the back. I expected a decent drop in the temps with the upgrade, however I got the same temps with the same overclock, so I decided that delidding was the next step. I order in some Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra and popped the top off. Unfortunately, I didn't get the results that I was hoping for. My hottest core is still in the 80's and the temps range by 12C between my coolest and hottest core. At this point, I believe I was just unlucky with the silicon I got. I don't know what else I could done without a more extreme type of cooling.

I don't have any screenshots of my temps at the moment. I working on the road and I'm away from my gaming rig.


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)









Nice setup! and with what everyone has said about the concave convexness of the metals, everyone here should remember this. Whenever you have two pieces of metal together like a WC loop's heatsink and a IHS that the IHs could be CONCAVE and the block could be CONCAVE as well. this will create the worst scenario as I like to call the bubble effect. this means you need more TIM in the space to actually move the heat away from the die. Also the Die might just have a bad crystaline alignment and be bad at moving heat away (very very unlikely)

Phew even more to read I know lol. Okay also with the CLP if your seeing large differences in temps per cores then the application went wrong. I bet you what most likely happened is that when you re installed the CPU back in and latched it down the IHS slid down onto the black number code for Intel on the PCB. This will create a gap in the die and the IHS's contact.

So after all of this I would recommend that after you get a chance to work on your perdy rig again would be to take the block off take the CPU out and check the application of CLP and try to even it out more if possible. then when you re install the chip wiht you hands hold the IHS up farther than normal and then when the latch comes down it will slide it back into it's normal place and seat evenly on all the cores. then check with a flat blade your blocks flatness and if it's concave or convex.

Good luck sir and let us know! thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by [CyGnus] View Post

Knight26 Are those cougar vortex on your 620? How do they perform?

I love my Cougars! Wait what...... tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondCut View Post

Have any of you started to look into the major differences in IHS and no IHS? I am considering on doing this but I only see two people who have attempted this. Any additional thoughts or concerns of having no IHS?

There are some gains by doing no IHS but only if you have the WC loop to do it. doing no die mounting takes a lot of time and effort to get it just right on the pressure of the die and HS to be spread evenly and correctly. It's much easier and more beneficial to the rig and CPU to leave the IHS on for the intended purpose of the IHS which stand for Integrated Heat Spreader = IHS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [CyGnus] View Post

well you have zero difference in temps and gain the ability of crushing the Die with the cooler's pressure teaching.gif

This as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solonowarion View Post

How much cooling difference is there between Pro and Ultra?

Around 3-5C but it all depends on the CPU and the cooler. Honestly if your delidding then just get the CL Pro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by megawatz View Post

Should I try and do the thermal paste again? I really don't care about getting CLP. If someone else with a 3570K using AS5 and gets temp drops using the same aspects they did, then why can't I?

What gives? I feel like this is a HUGE failure instead of a gain of delidding. I'm not seeing any effects of this yet.

Okay. I got a challenge for you instead of a recommendation. Take your paste off and try a very thin line method and spread the paste before you put the IHS back on. then re-install and tell us what you see. if not better than try and use a different paste method. Also if you really want the best cooling you must do what the die needs, which is purely the best heat mover out there. AS5 may be a "good" paste but when you compare the WK/m of AS5 vs CL Pro it gets blown away. CLP is ment for small areas where there is high amounts of heat and moves the heat instantly away from the area.

Also some great info for all the people here and yourself. Have any of you realized that all of the thermal paste out there was made for the Sandy Birdge and 2011 sockets? Almost no one has come out with better TIM because of how SB worked with it's FLUXLESS SOLDER that it had under the IHS. So take that info and apply that to why only Cool Labs have made this TIM for Ivy and see these crazy results because it's replacing the TIM Intel used along with the distance of the die and IHS issue and look at these results.

So What we need is for TIM companies to make better WK/m TIM for Ivy Birdge. NOT latter generations.

Just my thought. thumb.gif
post #8854 of 33804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solonowarion View Post

They made ultra on the note that pro was too hard to remove. The formula for ultra apparently is a little degraded compared to pro. There is such a small difference I just went for ultra to.

What's your source? There is so much misinformation around Pro and Ultra it's not funny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solonowarion View Post

How much cooling difference is there between Pro and Ultra?

Around 3-5C but it all depends on the CPU and the cooler. Honestly if your delidding then just get the CL Pro.

Where did you get this from?

I wish the Pro I ordered would hurry up and arrive so I can finally compare the two and put an end to all the speculation
Edited by tw33k - 1/17/13 at 2:10pm
post #8855 of 33804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

megawatz, thanks for the reply. I think my dad is using some 2gb system or less right now for his work. It' s just family videos he does. Why not go over 8gb of ram? Or does he only need 8? And I think I'll probably go with an i5 3570k and just overclock it for him, im not sure he needs the power of a 3770k. It's not a big deal either way, I'll think about it though.

AS5 is as bad as stock pastes these days, and I'm pretty sure the stock paste used by intel under the IHS is better than AS5. It's over a decade old, it's horribly outdated. People got improvements using AS5 during delidding because reducing the gap by removing the glue is what drops temps, not replacing the paste.

AS5 is just some of the worst paste out there these days. It's so terribly dated. Problem is that it great 13 years ago, so people bought it, recommended it, and a vicious cycle continues because people generally get a single tube and that lasts them a lifetime of builds (or least 15+ years, ie 2-4 builds).

CLP/CLU would be a huge boost over AS5. I can't stress enough of how terrible AS5 is. Check out my review here of thermal pastes:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1346069/belials-heatsink-tim-comparison-and-reviews-hyper-212-h50-nh-d14-pk-1-pk-2-pk-3/0_100

I dont compare AS5, but I compare PK-1 to PK2/PK3. PK-1 is a bit dated too, but it generally is considered 1-5*C better than AS5 - a bit better, not much. In the tests I do, PK-1 gets blown away by a modern paste like PK-3. And with thermal pastes, a 1-2*C difference is considered extremely significant (its just paste after all), so the fact you'd see possibly 10*C difference in PK3 and AS5... i wouldn't be surprised in drops of over 15*C in CLU/CLP vs AS5.

TIM differences are also exagerrated under the IHS. What might be 'only' a 10*C+ difference that CLU/CLP has over AS5, would easily become 20*C+ when under the IHS.

It isn't so much that there's huge differences in pastes or CLU/CLP is so awesome (although it is, it's not a normal paste like PK3, Gelid GC extreme, NH-T1, Masscool, and other modern pastes that are at least 5-10*C better than as5), it's that as5 is junk.

It came out over 13 years ago. Think about how far along GPUs and CPUs have come in 13 years. If you don't want to drop $20 on CLU/CLP, buy an LED or something else you might need at frozencpu and use the 5.1% discount so you get free shipping and 5.1% off ship. You can also find a modern paste on Ebay in 1.5g quantity around $4 shipped, like PK-3, that is significantly better than AS5.

Let me put it this way - the difference between PK-3, and PK-1, a paste that is consistently ranked a couple degrees higher than AS5, is a larger temp drop than I got from going from a Hyper 212+ to Corsair H50 water cooling.

im not going into deep with your post, but will say one thing,

your " review" is testing with tim's on the IHS, not on die,
the difference in temps when you use liquid pro/ultra on the IHS isnt that big, compared to other tim's,
they are ALL, including AS5, within a 2-6C range from each other smile.gif

check any review/test online, youll see wink.gif

day shift signing off ..G'night guys smile.gif
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post #8856 of 33804
good timing, the Boss is here ...lol ..hey Captain Val thumb.gif G'nite Cap wink.gif
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post #8857 of 33804
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw33k View Post

I've sent 3 emails to Coollaboratory asking them to confirm the heat conductivity values for both Pro and Ultra but they haven't replied. Hopefully you have more luck

already have answer from them, no worries wink.gif
the little list i posted about w/mk is updated, and shows the values biggrin.gif
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post #8858 of 33804
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw33k View Post

What's your source? There is so much misinformation around Pro and Ultra it's not funny
Where did you get this from?

I wish the Pro I ordered would hurry up and arrive so I can finally compare the two and put an end to all the speculation

Well if you look at results on the first post. Peoples experience on this very thread. Temps are generally around 3-5 degrees different from Pro. There was some trade off in performance verse usability by creating an easier to remove ultra.

http://www.coollaboratory.com/en/products/liquid-ultra/

What missinformation?
post #8859 of 33804
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

good timing, the Boss is here ...lol ..hey Captain Val thumb.gif G'nite Cap wink.gif

Night sir! sleep with that lady in your head! tongue.gif
post #8860 of 33804
Quote:
Originally Posted by megawatz View Post

Should I try and do the thermal paste again? I really don't care about getting CLP. If someone else with a 3570K using AS5 and gets temp drops using the same aspects they did, then why can't I?

What gives? I feel like this is a HUGE failure instead of a gain of delidding. I'm not seeing any effects of this yet.
My first, second, and third PK-1 application on the die and IHS were failures. Temps were worse even if compared to temps before delid. Not sure what I did wrong.

In the other hand my first application of liquid pro makes huge temp drop, around 25C!

Conclusion, go get liquid pro/ultra! tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

the die is small, then it is more important what the w/mk is of any tim used,
you can use any good tim on the ihs, but on the die, the liquids rule big time smile.gif
it will be your best $20 spend really,
your smile wil be like this biggrin.gif

I didn't smile, I LOL at the temps that the liquid pro is giving me. biggrin.gif
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