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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 910

post #9091 of 33835
cool pics!

(2nd build) At first I thought those CMs were blademasters. Then you made that silence comment and i was like wth. i was a bit confused biggrin.gif
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post #9092 of 33835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

I build for silence...

yea silence went out the window with mine. not a mountain mods case but i had mine built. its like 28 fans all together i beleive. lesser cfm fans have a hard time moving the air across the case. mine are like 98cfm and it stays cold all the time. you get used to the noise. or buy a good headset and you dont even hear it LOL
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post #9093 of 33835
Pfft....I love liquid cooling of any kind... makes the liquid as medium so what it's temperature difference rises between it and the air (it heats up) the radiator cooling increases so if your system is like 3'C delta you can downturn the fans to like 50% of their speeds and you gonna get an 8'C delta and everything is still being cooled nicely... I love water biggrin.gif

By the ways guys... anybody with crossfire setups SHOULD GO TO ATI DRIVERS AND DOWNLOAD THE LEAKED 13.2 BETAS OH MY GOD THEY ARE AWESOME!

Caps intended to prove a point.
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post #9094 of 33835
I bought AS5 based on recommendations. I had specified that I was getting CLP and moving to a water cooling system eventually. Thanks for the (kinda) facts.

On the other hand, I'm folding at a max of 66c @ 100% load.

EDIT: Also feel that you have to give AS5 time. It has a burn-in period of 200hrs if idled for that long. Under stress, it's going to be lower of a number. So, giving it a few days to see what temps are like then will help me determine what kind of drop I can see. and right now, I can see around a 20c drop. Used to fold/Prime95 at max 87c now I'm folding at max 66c.
Edited by megawatz - 1/20/13 at 12:02am
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post #9095 of 33835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joa3d43 View Post

...just posted a memory timing / tweak question over at Benchmarks / Cinebench...I figure 'delidders' might also know a thing or two about the 'black art of memory timings' and can provide tips smile.gif before my next build (without 'the lid') thumb.gif :

http://www.overclock.net/t/1160043/top-30-cinebench-r11-5-cpu-scores/290#post_19091014

I replied in there before looking here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

You disappoint me Hokies... you should've gotten these!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

Lol, imagine a case full of those... The noise! It'll be like 9 blow driers running constantly! I do agree, silence is better than 2C in temps. I do like the GTs best though. Best fans out I think.

The deltas are great, they can drown out the sound of annoying roomates, & the TV, the stereo, people at the door, etc.

Case is on wheels too, it would be cool to see how fast it goes across the floor. With 9 of them in that panel his case would probably 0 -90 faster than my car.
    
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post #9096 of 33835
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtW 420 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joa3d43 View Post

...just posted a memory timing / tweak question over at Benchmarks / Cinebench...I figure 'delidders' might also know a thing or two about the 'black art of memory timings' and can provide tips smile.gif before my next build (without 'the lid') thumb.gif :

http://www.overclock.net/t/1160043/top-30-cinebench-r11-5-cpu-scores/290#post_19091014

I replied in there before looking here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

You disappoint me Hokies... you should've gotten these!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

Lol, imagine a case full of those... The noise! It'll be like 9 blow driers running constantly! I do agree, silence is better than 2C in temps. I do like the GTs best though. Best fans out I think.

The deltas are great, they can drown out the sound of annoying roomates, & the TV, the stereo, people at the door, etc.

Case is on wheels too, it would be cool to see how fast it goes across the floor. With 9 of them in that panel his case would probably 0 -90 faster than my car.

Wanted to rep you for that last part. tongue.gif Just have a PC case race every other week. Make it look like your case it extremely heavy and no one bets on it and bets on the turtle or something. The whip out with those Deltas and you will win all their money! tongue.gif
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post #9097 of 33835
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronicfx View Post

Are you guys absolutely sure about 1.5v on a 3570k lasting more than 3 years? Max temp it would see is about 57 degrees gaming.. Been cine benching and burning at 5ghz and 1.51v i am thinking about priming it but I don't have money to replace the chip for haswell so it will have to last until skylake at minimum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post

noone can say that for sure of course, the longer ivy runs, the more data we have on how it keeps up,
3 years, yea think it will, will it be safe..

look at it like this, tjmax is 105C, would it run 3 years at 103C, prolly,
safe would be, 80-85C max

1.52V is max vcore for ivy, would it run 3 years at 1.5V , yea,
safe would be, 1.3-1.45V vcore max..with low temps,
and it will prolly run longer then the 3 years, without degradation..

i never had a sandy, but how many did degrade running higher oc's and vcores,
ivy is more resilient they say..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

1.52v is not the max Vcore for Ivy it is the max Vid range.

i know that better then anyone hokies smile.gif , i used the 1.52V vcore max as example,
but i think its reasonable to use, and your friend Sin0822 does too,

i quote from Sin0822 guide,

On Air/Water: Intel Rec. Max is Intel’s absolute maximum rating for the Ivy Bridge lineup, many of the numbers provided are identical to those of Sandy Bridge, however while vcore should be lower because of a better processing technology (22nm vs 32nm)
it is max 1.52v here because of the SVID max. When overclocking on air the only two voltages you should need to touch on an Ivy Bridge setup are the Vcore (which you increase) and the CPU PLL( which can be decreased to help temperatures). You should not proceed to just apply the maximum voltage for the vcore, vtt, or system agent as you will heavily increase the temperature so much so that the CPU will throttle and can be damaged. Also if you start off with a higher temperature it is very hard to test stability, as you will probably be more unstable than if you used a lower VCore.
end quote

another remark from a member here on ocn, that tried to help me answer the question about max vcore for ivy,
instead of only saying, youre wrong, proof it etc...

"I know for prior generations, the maximum allowable VID from the factory was considered
the maximum voltage for the processor. Not that that max VID was ever really spotted in the wild
for consumer usage. LGA775 was max of 1.45V VID, and that was widely considered the maximum you
should operate in a 24/7 environment,
and that is obviously temperature permitting."
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post #9098 of 33835
Quote:
Originally Posted by VonDutch View Post



i know that better then anyone hokies smile.gif , i used the 1.52V vcore max as example,
but i think its reasonable to use, and your friend Sin0822 does too,

i quote from Sin0822 guide,

On Air/Water: Intel Rec. Max is Intel’s absolute maximum rating for the Ivy Bridge lineup, many of the numbers provided are identical to those of Sandy Bridge, however while vcore should be lower because of a better processing technology (22nm vs 32nm)
it is max 1.52v here because of the SVID max. When overclocking on air the only two voltages you should need to touch on an Ivy Bridge setup are the Vcore (which you increase) and the CPU PLL( which can be decreased to help temperatures). You should not proceed to just apply the maximum voltage for the vcore, vtt, or system agent as you will heavily increase the temperature so much so that the CPU will throttle and can be damaged. Also if you start off with a higher temperature it is very hard to test stability, as you will probably be more unstable than if you used a lower VCore.
end quote

another remark from a member here on ocn, that tried to help me answer the question about max vcore for ivy,
instead of only saying, youre wrong, proof it etc...

"I know for prior generations, the maximum allowable VID from the factory was considered
the maximum voltage for the processor. Not that that max VID was ever really spotted in the wild
for consumer usage. LGA775 was max of 1.45V VID, and that was widely considered the maximum you
should operate in a 24/7 environment,
and that is obviously temperature permitting."

His max is 1.55v quit being a soft core user and quit suggesting what is not true to users.

He said do not pass 1.6v on Air / Water making 1.55v plenty in the safe Zone.
    
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post #9099 of 33835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Again with the snide comments, that's okay. I make perfectly clear in the review that I'm testing on the IHS, not on die, and in the post I specifically state that on-die is different than IHS, and that most likely, differences in thermal paste performance would be exaggerated when put on-die (vs standard IHS).

I have checked many review sites. Not a single site shows a difference between Ultra vs Pro, but for the most part, very few sites have even reviewed either CLU/CLP.

They are all NOT within 2-6*C range of eachother, including AS5. You are most likely looking at outdated benches from years ago. 10 years ago,
all pastes were within 2-6*C of AS5, on the IHS, yes. Today, all high end pastes are within 2-6*C, sure - Gelic GC Extreme, NH-T1, PK-3, Shin Etsu.

However, all of today's high end pastes, are likely going to be 5-10*C+ over pastes like AS5.

Not to mention, AS5 was a terrible paste 5 years ago when most benchmarks were done (i mean, most are around 5-2 years old it seems).

Those are also the results of my own test. I found, consistently, in my testing, that PK-3 was 5*C better than PK-1. Which, consistently, is about 2-3*C better than AS5. You can do the math to figure out the difference between PK-3 and AS5. You can also probably do the math and figure out how AS5 compares to CLU/CLP, which are not conventional thermal pastes, but more in the line of Phobya Hegrease, IC Diamond, and Indigo Extreme - they are thermal 'applicants' of a different nature. Most basically, they are not ceramic based, and they are significantly higher in price (considering about 99% of pastes are under $10 for 5g, $8 for 3.5g, and $5 for 1.5g), and generally much more difficult to apply.

My results are hardly authoritative, but I'd bet money that AS5 is at least 10*C worse than CLU/CLP, especially when put on-die. Yes, 1-3*C is a huge deal of difference when it comes to thermal pastes. You'd be hard pressed to find 1-3*C difference in modern pastes - nh-t1, gelid, hegrease even, pk2, pk3, mx-4, even clu/clp are close within that range on IHS applications. But AS5 is such a terrible thermal paste, being over a decade old after all, that it's much more than 5*C worse than modern pastes. That's how terrible it is, that stock paste performs better than it these days.

As I said before - look at how much CPUs and GPUs have evolved in the last 13 years. TIM has evolved just as much.

This thread moves insanely fast, but to the person using AS5 - get a modern paste (it'd be a great chance for you to get CLU/CLP right now, but any modern paste would be fine, you can get something like 1.5g of pk3 or masscool for under $4 shipped on ebay). You'll have significant temp drops, a more dramati temp drop using a good thermal paste, than if you switch from a hyper 212 to a 120mm closed loop/mid range cooler, or even something like an H60 vs nh-d14. It's not that getting a thermal paste will provide a dramatic drop in temps, it's that switching from a terrible paste like AS5 to a half decent one, would provide a dramatic drop in temps.

I'd bet money that the stock intel paste on the IHS is better than AS5.

snide..right, not sure what it means, but how can i even start to respond to a post that has this in only 1 alinea,
besides the as5 reviews are outdated, as you think, it isnt a bad tim , as you make it out to be,
and you havent tested it in your own review, you only say its bad, its outdated, thats all, your own opinion,

you bet money, yea..but its the same thing i already say a long time if we talk about what tim to use on the die,
i know the difference from experience, like others here do too..

using AS5 on the die


using Liquid Pro on die


25C temp difference,
liquid pro beats any other tim, when used on the die,
the difference between ultra and pro arent that big, even tho theres a (big) difference in w/mk,
of which i think, there a kinda of a upperlimit with w/mk used on die,
pro's w/mk is 82w/mk, but i dont think a 150w/mk tim will give double the temp drop if compared, and if there was a tim like that,
from 30-40 w/mk and higher, the temp differences will get less..

intels tim has a lower w/mk then as5, i went to trouble once to find out what the w/mk was on intels tim,
if i remember right, it has about 2-3w/mk, artic silver 5 has a 8.7 w/m.k , which is not bad at all
Edited by VonDutch - 1/20/13 at 12:46am
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post #9100 of 33835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokies83 View Post

His max is 1.55v quit being a soft core user and quit suggesting what is not true to users.

He said do not pass 1.6v on Air / Water making 1.55v plenty in the safe Zone.

dang, its a, lets pick on VonDutch day ...lol

you are all right, AS5 is bad, and 1.52V max vcore, is not correct either,
i leave it to others to decide whats best for them, and what the limits are,
i will keep on using the numbers i gathered so far tho,
if asked whats the best tim to use on die, or what is the max "safe" vcore for ivy, 1.3-1.45V vcore for me,
i think 95% of the users will agree.. for people personally, you can use 1.55V 24/7, upto you smile.gif
theres a difference between Max vcore, and recommended or safe vcore..

so, hokies, how did you get that 1.55V vcore?
pls provide any kind of other proof..
or are you also only using/quoting the number Sin0822 suggests in his graph?
Edited by VonDutch - 1/20/13 at 1:13am
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