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[Official] Delidded Club / Guide - Page 922

post #9211 of 34072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joa3d43 View Post

Quote:
Swag and Valgaur & Co

..thank you very much - very valuable information ! This is actually good news that the IHS sits on the die once the glue is out of the equation...and if the IHS is nickel-plated copper, all the better. thumb.gif

Basically, I am looking at three options

1.) run 'unlid' (no IHS), with 4 screws that hold the water-bloc down, making sure of a perfectly straight mount and thin 'drop' of CLP/U
or 1b) have a thin layer of pure extra soft copper sitting between the unlid die and the water-block

2.) cut the IHS to make it a 'convertible' if this makes any sense, with tiny vent holes drilled in the sides of the IHS (re trapped air). Not as good as 1, but a cabriolet version of the IHS may help to seat the CPU better

3.) much more involved: fabricate a custom water-block out of copper that not only sits on the die but is chamfered and basically 'encloses it half way' on teh die sides (sort of like a hat on a head)...this however is tricky, especially with different expansion rates in hot-cold cycles (can crack the die if not done right...I used to do a lot of metal work, but this requires a specialty shop with CNC...the advantage of a custom water block is that I can set it up multiple ways with different liquid 'and other' inlets outlets to experiment...again, what is critical with this approach is to know what the expansion rates are of the die

I appreciate your valuable insights thumb.gif ! Never having seen an exposed die (YouTube does not count) and touched it, it's great to communicate with folks who have...obviously there is very little room for error...and the pressure is even higher given that my 3770K runs very well (CPUz 5.210 4c/8t @ 1.464v), it seems to require slightly less volt at any given speed than average...if I screw that one up - oh dear

Out of all those, I would probably go with the 2nd option, much easier, much quicker, and much safer!
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post #9212 of 34072
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joa3d43 View Post

..thank you very much - very valuable information ! This is actually good news that the IHS sits on the die once the glue is out of the equation...and if the IHS is nickel-plated copper, all the better. thumb.gif

Basically, I am looking at three options

1.) run 'unlid' (no IHS), with 4 screws that hold the water-bloc down, making sure of a perfectly straight mount and thin 'drop' of CLP/U
or 1b) have a thin layer of pure extra soft copper sitting between the unlid die and the water-block

2.) cut the IHS to make it a 'convertible' if this makes any sense, with tiny vent holes drilled in the sides of the IHS (re trapped air). Not as good as 1, but a cabriolet version of the IHS may help to seat the CPU better

3.) much more involved: fabricate a custom water-block out of copper that not only sits on the die but is chamfered and basically 'encloses it half way' on teh die sides (sort of like a hat on a head)...this however is tricky, especially with different expansion rates in hot-cold cycles (can crack the die if not done right...I used to do a lot of metal work, but this requires a specialty shop with CNC...the advantage of a custom water block is that I can set it up multiple ways with different liquid 'and other' inlets outlets to experiment...again, what is critical with this approach is to know what the expansion rates are of the die

I appreciate your valuable insights thumb.gif ! Never having seen an exposed die (YouTube does not count) and touched it, it's great to communicate with folks who have...obviously there is very little room for error...and the pressure is even higher given that my 3770K runs very well (CPUz 5.210 4c/8t @ 1.464v), it seems to require slightly less volt at any given speed than average...if I screw that one up - oh dear

first off you don't need a custom WC for the die only. and you don't need to mod the IHS either. Copper is the best form metallically to transfer heat so in all the ways the IHS helps wiht the heat dissipation by spreading it over a bigger area. thats why a lot of us use it. but with SonDa5 (if I spelled it wong my bad buddy) so in other words use a normal mount of the IHs and you will still see great results.

Now if you really want to get some crazy results and go custom think about this. Make the IHs convertable but change it up and leave the latch on the mobo and put the modded IHS and tack weld it to the inside of the latch so when you close it it holds the die perfectly still with the correct amoutn of pressure. Then with the WC block make it so it has a loop or a curve on the bottom incase the LP or LU oozes out (I take no chances) then you can leave the sides open for air cooling as well to help with the thermal dissipation since air is a decent coolant passively. This way to will get great flat on flat contact and amazing pressure reditribution and one heck of a mean ass looking WC block. if you want I can take it into further detail in PM's So I don't confuse everyone lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vi0lence View Post

i did 2 chips so far and didnt need any glue or anything between the chip and the ihs. put both back together with liquid pro and it fit perfectly. ihs from what i can see lapping it is copper plated in nickel like said above. it polishes up like a very high grade copper.

I love how it polishes up but the pain on your fingers man. freaking annoying. I had a sheet of sand paper and my hands to hold/move both took me around an hour.
post #9213 of 34072
Guys, imagine a company make a waterblock that surrounds the die, so basically, it is a normal water block except in the middle, there is an indentation exactly the size of the die and you just put it on. That would be amazing!
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post #9214 of 34072
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

Guys, imagine a company make a waterblock that surrounds the die, so basically, it is a normal water block except in the middle, there is an indentation exactly the size of the die and you just put it on. That would be amazing!

what i just stated lol. tongue.gif
post #9215 of 34072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valgaur View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

Guys, imagine a company make a waterblock that surrounds the die, so basically, it is a normal water block except in the middle, there is an indentation exactly the size of the die and you just put it on. That would be amazing!

what i just stated lol. tongue.gif

I stared at the huge wall of text and I said to myself "Nah."
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post #9216 of 34072
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

I stared at the huge wall of text and I said to myself "Nah."

Sheesh thats just being lazy college boy thumb.gif
post #9217 of 34072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valgaur View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swag View Post

I stared at the huge wall of text and I said to myself "Nah."

Sheesh thats just being lazy college boy thumb.gif

I can't help it, when I see a block of text, I just pretend to have not seen it and ignore it! Even in politics, I just ignore all the handouts and just wing it during discussions.
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post #9218 of 34072
Quote:
Valgaur, Swag and everyone who had input

...Guys, imagine a company make a waterblock that surrounds the die, so basically, it is a normal water block except in the middle, there is an indentation exactly the size of the die and you just put it on. That would be amazing!

...what i just stated lol

...well, that's what my option 3 is above ('hat on a head')...it increases the contact area for heat transfer...plus on the upper sections, one can have custom fittings 'for all kinds of ' experiments. There are a few smaller metal shops I see every day as I drive by...I'll see what they say after I make some drawings / CAD for them and may be show you "Godzilla' of cooling once it is down, or more likely the most hideous contraption you'll ever see on top of a CPU biggrin.gif
post #9219 of 34072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

Hey VonDutch I see you got the UD3H. I got one too. Still waiting on the RAM (en route from canada).

What do you think of the board? I can't seem to figure out if it has offset voltage options or just vid.
Isn't offest voltage the better one to use anyways (so you can keep those eist, etc features)?

i like it, for the prize i paid for it, its one of the best, compared to others with about the same prize,
it has offset, where you put in cpu vcore, you have to change that to Normal, and the offset will not be "greyed" out,

Dynamic Vcore(DVID)

yea, i think offset is the way to go, make full use of all the powersavings smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtW 420 View Post


Mine is bugging me with memory overclocking. Last night set a 2400Mhz memory clock, pi32m & IBT max mem pass, restarting while running benches, all good, shut down & went to bed.

Wake up, turn on PC, failed overclock. Loosen timings, fail. more vdimm, fail. Reset to 2133, boots, up to 2200 all good, 2400 at the same settings as it was when first starting, works now & reboots fine
Shut down for 15 minutes or so, start up, failed overclock...

FtW has a point here, i always thought my ram wasnt really good for ocing, and im not good ocing ram also lol,
could be my mobo too..idk for sure..

what bios are you using on that mobo FtW420?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joa3d43 View Post

...working on prepping for the delid and want to add a custom cooling solution...I hope to confirm / find out:

1.) what material the actual die is...I would think silicon but it seems it has a metal sheen to it (I am asking re different expansion rates of i.e. copper and silicon /glass, given what I am working on which would partially 'hug' the die)

2.) Once delidded - AND WITHOUT the original glue that added a bit of height to the IHS, what (if any) is the height difference between IHS (no glue) and the die ? Conversely, without the glue, does the IHS sit on the die (with only a bit of CLP/U in-between...or is the IHS still higher than the die measured from the top of the pcb

Thank you very much for your feedback thumb.gif

check my avatar, thats the IHS spinning freely on the die biggrin.gif
the die is made of "glass" , the upper layer is..


Putting these data together, we can compute whether or not a gap exists between the CPU and the underside of the IHS or if the gap exists between the IHS and the PCB:


Now I can verify by eye that a gap between the IHS and the PCB does indeed exist, but it is an extremely small gap (as the number would indicate) and attempts to take a photo detailing the gap is pretty challenging. I took a lot of different pics, varied the lighting, etc, and here is the best I could come up with:


But perhaps the most compelling argument that I can make to support the assertion that the IHS is resting on top of the CPU once you delid the IHS and remove the black rubbery adhesive and CPU TIM is the following video I took in which I could freely rotate (spin) the IHS while it sits on top of the CPU and PCB...it wouldn't spin so freely if it were resting or contacting the PCB at any point.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?s=da99c2fb53f26e74f9473e7305656ae7&t=2261855
Edited by VonDutch - 1/21/13 at 12:02am
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post #9220 of 34072
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joa3d43 View Post

...well, that's what my option 3 is above ('hat on a head')...it increases the contact area for heat transfer...plus on the upper sections, one can have custom fittings 'for all kinds of ' experiments. There are a few smaller metal shops I see every day as I drive by...I'll see what they say after I make some drawings / CAD for them and may be show you "Godzilla' of cooling once it is down, or more likely the most hideous contraption you'll ever see on top of a CPU biggrin.gif

I'll find it more beautiful
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