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[Bit-Tech] Nvidia accused of crippling board partners' designs - Page 12

post #111 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Nah, Gabe Newell is just a marketing genius.
AMD is probably not like this either, they probably just realize how great it is to be able to win over the enthusiasts.
That is very true. He is.

How would winning over enthusiasts make a difference to AMD?
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post #112 of 252
Is Nvidia becoming the Apple of the GPU world? hehe.

Ok, enough fun there, kinda disappointed that I am or others are spending money on a product thats being limited for no major reason. With the 700 series coming soon, one would wonder why the hell Nvidia would be worried about over-performance. The way I see it, it allowed them the chance to hit AMD hard with the 600 series and then follow up with the 700. Oh well, I guess AMD can now rebound and should not hit them hard and crush their 700 series.

I'm all for competition, but when I know I can get a better product and I have people willing to help give me that product, It pisses me off that their hands are tied. Come on Nvidia, what about the OCK community?
post #113 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by iEATu View Post

That is very true. He is.
How would winning over enthusiasts make a difference to AMD?
...enthusiasts spend money on graphics cards.
post #114 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

...enthusiasts spend money on graphics cards.
Yeah, I didnt realize that enthusiasts are (probably? I think probably less. There are hundreds of thousands of PC gamers that arent "enthusiasts") greater than people with more knowledge about the workings of other companies that are "generally" not liked. Meaning some people and most people on message boards. Which I think are a pretty small percentage of all companies' consumer base.
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post #115 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by elreyhorus View Post

I don't want to read into this too much, but...
NVIDIA is hurting us enthusiasts by doing this. By leashing AIB manufacturers, consumers are getting less performance for their money. Is NVIDIA so protective of their brand reputation that they are willing to force AIB to comply with their demands while limiting the true performance potential of Kepler? Don't bite the hand that feed you...
The negative press and potential consumer backlash should have given NVIDIA pause to think twice about their stance towards overvolting.

I foresee a good opportunity for amd to really pull ahead in gpu sales if they stick to letting us consumers have voltage control, If they fail to see this then amd are as dumb as nvidia

How? The amount of people having voltage control is really minimal. AMD are already guaranteed to pull ahead of nVidia simply because they have Llano, Bobcat and Trinity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zylonite View Post

using cheap capacitors i wonder!!!!

that is why XFX left Nvidia and that is why I left Nvidia long time ago....

Uh, no, Fermi, Telsa, etc were massive and not making XFX, BFG, etc much money, so XFX wanted to make AMD cards..When nVidia found out they pretty much stopped giving XFX any of their GPUs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vonnis View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chewy View Post

If card manufacturers are forced to leave out voltage tweaking on their cards and high oc claims to attract customers then they will be forced to focus more on extreme cooling or bundled items included in the sale of a gpu such as games or maybe t-shirts or sweets etc anything to
differentiate themselves from the competiton..... This could be a good thing ?
How are t-shirts, sweets, or games you can pick up for cheap on steam a good thing compared to being able to tweak your card for extra performance? I'd much rather see awesome cards with great features than locked down cards that come with a bunch of frivolous bullcrap I couldn't care less about.

Especially if you buy CFX/SLI, what point is there in having a second copy of DiRT or something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigkahuna360 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hukkel View Post

This has nothing to do with RMAs. If you overclock it you lose warranty anyway.

It is just about Nvidia and the different cards they sell for different prices. If they allowed overvolting and you could OC a 680 to a spot better than the 690 they lose sales and a lot of money. Same counts when 670s pass 680s like that. It is a marketing game. The reason why we still buy the best cards.

And the red team pfffff. Come one. AMD would do the same thing. This is bigger than a couple of thousand overclockers. This is a billion dollar industry. The one n top will use such strategies to increase their profit and market share.

If you want to punish them don't buy new stuff at all. Like that is going to happen.

That is a blatantly false information.

They wouldnt have made half the profits that they do now if they didnt include overclocking.

Does Nvidia make most of their money with Tesla/Quadro and HPC? Perhaps the enthusiast/overclocking market is not important to Nvidia?

It used to be overclocking and the "halo effect" (ie. I have the fastest card, you'll also look more favorably on my mid-range and lower end cards because of that) which is where voltage unlocking would be really important...However, for today's day and age I'd say AMDs biggest income is APUs and nVidia's is HPC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mygaffer View Post


Well the proof is in the pudding. Why else would EVGA remove the voltage control? Why else would we see so much homogenous products on the Nvidia side?

It sounds like Nvidia is setting these restrictions. Why I am not sure but they must have some reason that they think benefits them. Maybe it has to do with warranty costs?

There's a reason that nVidia gets compared to North Korea often, it's most likely because nVidia doesn't want to have it appear like they can't make their cards as fast as they possibly could and also because..well, the difference between the 660Ti, 670 and 680 really isn't that much...You can easily OC a 670 to 680 performance levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drbaltazar View Post

If you volt to CPU spec you should be fine.

That's false, my 32nm CPU can handle higher voltages than my 40nm GPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AznDud333 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

EVGA...
I hope that they start producing ATI cards. It's hard to be an EVGA fanboy when Nvidia pulls this stuff.

amd needs to work on their drivers first...i had 3 generations of amd cards and it was the driver support that made me switch

I've ran a x1600Pro, HD4550, HD545v, HD4890 CFX (With two screens, too), HD4890 single card and a HD7850 and I am yet to get any bugs that I couldn't trace back to an unstable OC (Insanely tight DDR2 memory timings causing the grey screen of death with the HD4890 CFX for example) or that were about the same as the bugs I get on nVidia. (ie. Random but rare crashing in some games, few hiccups with GPU accelerated video rarely)

It's for this reason that I call all AMD driver problems out, unless the user has tested at 100% stock (No CPU OC at all, memory at JEDEC speed and timings, GPU at stock even if it has a factory OC) and still gotten the bugs and has reinstalled drivers, tried newer ones, older ones, etc as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AznDud333 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

You could just stay with Fermi forever. 4 way 580s. biggrin.gif
Haven't they fixed that by now? They even have better multi monitor support than Nvidia.

i dont see how mutli monitor is gonna help if they refuse to fix existing bugs(3 series had serious flickering in GTA iv, 5 series has shadow artifacts in crysis) if they refuse to fix a product that's 3 generations old, how could i expect them to support a product that just came out?

That's because they mostly stop work on older architectures...I don't expect nVidia to fix bugs with my 470 (Random crashes in game on 296 drivers, crashes in anything that puts it at 3D clocks on 306) because it's 4 generations old.

That said, nVidia's drivers have really slipped recently, especially on Linux.
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by friend'scatdied View Post

There's a difference between owning/experience and understanding, and a difference between skimming and reading.tongue.gif
This article purports that Nvidia is borderline threatening its AIBs, while the other article is directly from Nvidia painting a comparatively rosy portrait of ostensible "choice" by the vendors. If this article is correct, it's more like coercion backed by threat than choice.

sorry bro, I am not interested in your lectures and I could less about this whole thread and whining loosers who expect a vendor warranty (paid by nvidia) for highly overclockable and over-volted products way above the reference designs, so they get a free replacement (paid by nvidia( when things get burned. well, now the vendors will have to cover it and will probably sell such products at higher price then they used to.

you can always get a cheap locked reference design to and flash it with a modded bios, you know?

You are clearly missing the point..This is not about being able to RMA cards that the user broke because they're dumb (Seriously, how can someone kill a GPU from volt-modding without some extreme bad luck or stupidity?), give me a good reason why MSI and eVGA can't launch their Lightning and Classified designs with full voltage adjustment? Like many have said, do the Intel performance tuning plan if you want them to have a chance at RMA, or just have no RMAs..Or some form of switch that is only blown when you over-volt the card, why are they bad ideas? nVidia is being childish over this as this will hurt their bottom line (Not too much, but nonetheless).
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMD2600 View Post

Nvidia doesn't want to look stupid with all the RMA's. What's the big deal? Protecting the brand name.

They're not protecting it at all, if they really wanted to they could incorporate a way to make sure they know you've overvolted your card or offer an expanded warranty like Intel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

/facepalm
WHAT PART OF NVIDIA THREATENING TO CUT OFF CHIP SUPPLY DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? The point this article was making is that regardless of whether the vendor chooses to opt out of the warranty or not, if they make an overvolting board, nVidia will cut off their supply, or at least reduce it.

show me an OFFICIAL public and confirmed statement from nvidia on this and I WILL believe that it means the vendors drop such products from the line up.

nVidia isn't going to say that outright, however, this is the nVidia kind of tactic to use (They cut XFX's supply when XFX made AMD cards despite the fact that Fermi being 6 months late was literally putting them in debt) and it makes too much sense, why else would the Classified not have eVBot support randomly without eVGA knowing?

Let me guess, Charlie was completely wrong about Fermi too, it definitely wasn't an overly leaky, late product, I mean nVidia never said that, did they? rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by erunion View Post

Nvidia wouldn't cut partners off from chips

Yes. they would..Remember when they cut XFX off from Fermi because they started selling AMD cards in order to remain in the green?
    
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post #116 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by iEATu View Post

Yeah, I didnt realize that enthusiasts are (probably? I think probably less. There are hundreds of thousands of PC gamers that arent "enthusiasts") greater than people with more knowledge about the workings of other companies that are "generally" not liked. Meaning some people and most people on message boards. Which I think are a pretty small percentage of all companies' consumer base.
Enthusiasts are not all of the consumers of high end graphics cards, but they make up a significant portion of it. A lot of the people who are going to spend >$400 on a GPU are going to be enthusiasts, as that is a lot of money to throw down for a computer these days. Enthusiasts also know the market fairly well, and if they have the option of a card that has been voltage locked, or another with relatively similar performance that has unlocked voltage, more of them are going to go for the one with the unlocked voltage. Since enthusiasts spend money on cards, and often a lot of money, it is probably going to be a good thing if they like you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia 
With Green Light, we don’t really go out of the way to look for ways that AICs enable manual OV. As I stated, this isn’t the core purpose of the program. Yes, you’ve seen some cases of boards getting out into the market with OV features only to have them disabled later. This is due to the fact that AICs decided later that they would prefer to have a warranty. This is simply a choice the AICs each need to make for themselves. How, or when they make this decision, is entirely up to them.
I still don't understand the reasoning behind this. How many people who have flashed their BIOS and killed their cards actually returned the cards?
post #117 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by iEATu View Post

Yeah, I didnt realize that enthusiasts are (probably? I think probably less. There are hundreds of thousands of PC gamers that arent "enthusiasts") greater than people with more knowledge about the workings of other companies that are "generally" not liked. Meaning some people and most people on message boards. Which I think are a pretty small percentage of all companies' consumer base.
Enthusiasts are not all of the consumers of high end graphics cards, but they make up a significant portion of it. A lot of the people who are going to spend >$400 on a GPU are going to be enthusiasts, as that is a lot of money to throw down for a computer these days. Enthusiasts also know the market fairly well, and if they have the option of a card that has been voltage locked, or another with relatively similar performance that has unlocked voltage, more of them are going to go for the one with the unlocked voltage. Since enthusiasts spend money on cards, and often a lot of money, it is probably going to be a good thing if they like you.

Enthusiasts often are the ones who make recommendations as to what computers normal people should buy. If they use x, they're probably going to recommend x to others.
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post #118 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Enthusiasts often are the ones who make recommendations as to what computers normal people should buy. If they use x, they're probably going to recommend x to others.
That's definitely true, and enthusiasts often get jobs in computer stores, and further recommend things that they like to more people.
post #119 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Yes. they would..Remember when they cut XFX off from Fermi because they started selling AMD cards in order to remain in the green?

Actually I don't. But according to this nvidia did what I suggested, made XFX wait to get Fermi.
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post #120 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by erunion View Post

Actually I don't. But according to this nvidia did what I suggested, made XFX wait to get Fermi.

Wait or refuse.

Call it what you want, XFX didn't get Nvidia chips full stop, and rather than go BFG's way, they came under ATI's wing.
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