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[Bit-Tech] Nvidia accused of crippling board partners' designs - Page 15

post #141 of 252
^ Oh I agree, but we don't really have a good reason to fuss. Simple as a pencil mod sometimes, the 6800 (by that I mean taking the vanilla 6800 and making it a 6800GT) comes to mind, using rivatuner to unlock pipe lines etc. So that is more so what it will lean towards but will also get a nice bit of a rise in hardmods to imo.

Certain things won't change, when that was done even back more then a few years ago it was not A typical for the AiB to cover warranty if they could tell it was ran outside NV/.AMD spec, that for most AiB's is new, and especially giving software to enable it. It's only been really the past few years which isn't that long in my mind.

So yeah, it's just now everyone takes it for granted and thinks it's a "right".
Quote:
Originally Posted by xXSebaSXx View Post

There.... You've nailed it right on the head. nVidia's obligations as a company are not to us (The consumer)... They are to their stock holders. They are in the business of making money by selling a product and if limiting the amount of voltage that consumers push through their GPUs makes for a better "bottom line"... They are obligated to do so.

I want to agree with this as well.

I will add I was one of the first to be disgusted when the GTX 680 was first launched. The signs were there, knew it was coming.
Edited by rx7racer - 10/5/12 at 11:30pm
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post #142 of 252
Someone just send a link to someone at Nvidia of this thread... I want overclocking always.
    
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post #143 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by rx7racer View Post

Honestly not sure what the fuss is all about. Voltage control is rather a new feature to have and Nvidia is feeling the effect as the AiBs add more and more features to manipulate what NV set as "their" standards.
Guess hardmodding may make a comeback. thumb.gif

Other than custom designs being completely worthless now? Yeah I see no problem with that! Way to screw the AIC makers over.

For years now custom boards were designed for overclocking and noise. Nobody is going to buy that crap only for noise purposes, I don't believe -- these cards have been designed from the get-go with overclocking / overvolting in mind and have been for years. Now with nvidia backtracking, that REALLY lowers the value of such boards.

Anyone defending this garbage should take their ivy bridge and immediately cease over volting them.
post #144 of 252
Judging from a few nVIDIA responses, they still allow AIC to go mental given that they take full RMA responsibility for it.

To be honest, such things are impossible to judge fairly, cause we don't and never will have full info on the subject and getting to the bottom only on PR responses is impossible as they are always skewed.

nVIDIA might be forcing those things under the table regardless of what AIC partner does, but the case might be as well that MSI and EVGA when presented with choice decided against waving nVIDIA's RMA obligations for special editions as it would decrease their margins, so they instead decided to follow nVIDIA's guidelines instead of taking full RMA responsibility for themselves.

Bottom line, without hard facts it's impossible to get to the bottom of it.
post #145 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by feniks View Post

hard to reply to your multi-quote post, but anyways I do, since for some reason I can't stop lurking around this thread LOL! tongue.gif

I don't understand your point about no way to break a GPU from volt-modding rolleyes.gif ... uhmm, missed a "not" somewhere I guess? never mind.


I have an honest and very simple explanation of why Lightning and Classified were crippled after launch (no EVBot on Classified) ... it's pretty simple ... the vendors decided to keep the nvidia warranty and in order to be OK with Nvidia Green Light they had to remove the over-volting features ... it pretty much seems that vendors care more about being able to return faulty GPUs to nvidia for RMA under nvidia warranty then to pay for certain % of repairs/replacements out of their own pockets (perhaps the percentage is high and would eat too much of their profits so they decide to cripple the product making customers unhappy) ... and here comes the question - how many of such RMAs is there among all sold? ... it's not really hard to come to this conclusion ... even an nvidia rep stated the same and I have no reason to not believe it, really, why not?

I remember XFX switch to ATI/AMD and thei nearly instant drop on nvidia products ... well, there is this stupid war between green and red guys and it seems that neither of sides tolerates vendors who are not loyal? (however their are exceptions that do, not my business to know why, probably it's a bout money as always) ... I think that since those 2 companies (nvidia vs amd) created a hell of a duo-poly in the market and they can't really allow their certified vendors to support the competition, why would they (cutting own profits)? it's pure economy, the bottom line rules here..

I have no idea who Charlie is, never heard of him. however I wonder what he says about this big fuss discussed here?

However I am aware of the newly developed mid-range card switcheroo nvidia did making it a new top dog while holding back the real top ace for future release (700 series) ... and to be honest I am fine with that, because the current 600 series is beefy enough to perform much better than 500 series I used to own. I don't think we have any right to judge nvidia why they decided to delay the top ace release and chose to make the whole 700 series out of it, their right to do so.

really, too many people called me ignorant, naive or stupid today in this single thread alone, but the truth is that I follow a simple logic and while it makes sense to me that's what I follow, not gossips, rumors, conspiracy theories, ghost stories or paranoid schemes... wouldn't be able to work in my profession if I did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

You are clearly missing the point..This is not about being able to RMA cards that the user broke because they're dumb (Seriously, how can someone kill a GPU from volt-modding without some extreme bad luck or stupidity?), give me a good reason why MSI and eVGA can't launch their Lightning and Classified designs with full voltage adjustment? Like many have said, do the Intel performance tuning plan if you want them to have a chance at RMA, or just have no RMAs..Or some form of switch that is only blown when you over-volt the card, why are they bad ideas? nVidia is being childish over this as this will hurt their bottom line (Not too much, but nonetheless).

nVidia isn't going to say that outright, however, this is the nVidia kind of tactic to use (They cut XFX's supply when XFX made AMD cards despite the fact that Fermi being 6 months late was literally putting them in debt) and it makes too much sense, why else would the Classified not have eVBot support randomly without eVGA knowing?
Let me guess, Charlie was completely wrong about Fermi too, it definitely wasn't an overly leaky, late product, I mean nVidia never said that, did they? rolleyes.gif

You're believing nVidia's PR over a fairly well known site and their insider sources, when it comes to nVidia the insiders generally tend to tell the truth...Remember before Fermi launched? Charlie says it'll be delayed, nVidia denies it. Then delays Fermi. Charlie says it'll be way too leaky and costs a fortune to make...Proven right again. Wood screws, etc as well, nVidia PR said it was a real Fermi right up until Charlie called them out on it with proof that it was fake.
The fact you'd believe PR in the first place (They're literally paid to lie and make a companies failings look as good as possible) is sad, I can understand not believing the insiders but believing the PR is just..naive.

Why can't nVidia offer a low, but still unlocked voltage? And offer more insane voltages on top of that? That's my point, there's no good for the consumer reason not to do that...Only making it cheaper for nVidia which is arguably worse for consumers as we then have to deal with cheap VRMs and all their associated drawbacks (For example, increased heat generation even at stock voltages and a shorter lifespan), I somehow doubt we'd get the savings passed onto us either..Also, keep in mind that the 570s only failed because of a bad batch of VRMs in an early model, later models were fine, the 590 had a few problems because..well, nVidia cheaped out on VRMs; for that reason I doubt you'll see many functioning 590s in 5 years from now, especially compared to the amount of 580s and 570s, that's not even taking the amount sold into account, just that the 590s VRM was minimum for stock operation.

Why can I pick between HD7970 and GTX 680 MSI Lightnings, ASUS DirectCUs and Gigabyte SuperOverclocks if manufacturers can't be on both sides? That was plain pigheadedness from nVidia.

He owns a site and hates nVidia, but has some great insiders and great pre-release information if you ignore his fanboy problems.

You want to know the main reason I think this is bad for everyone, not just us? Competition. Remember, nVidia has GPU Boost to get OCed numbers against AMDs stock cards (Not that it's a bad thing, in fact it's great for laptops and consumers) so this will directly impact how high GPU Boost can let the cards clock if Nvidia goes cheap on VRMs due to this, it will also affect longevity among other things; I won't be boycotting nVidia simply because of this but if AMDs cards OC higher due to having OV and also run faster due to that...I'll definitely be going to AMD. However, I have a feeling this is in the best interests for nVidia and that knowing the GPU industry nVidia will be back to software overvolts within 5 generations of cards.
    
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post #146 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distaste View Post

If I've understood the whole situation correctly. Most consumers aren't getting less performance for their money and might actually get lower priced cards due to more chips being out there that don't get fried. Enthusiasts get to keep their overclocking warranty, would you rather there be no OC warranty coverage or voltage control because that's probably the situation. If a card manufacturer wants to go outside of that spec, that's fine, but they won't be able to go back to NVidia with "defective" chips. That leaves them a choice of either no giving warranties for OCing or conforming to NVidia's specs. You can bet they will quickly conform to the specs since they don't want to foot the bill for defective chips either and they don't want to lose the major draw of having OC covered under warranty.
If I had to guess, since the current cards were originally meant to be midranged cards they weren't designed and don't handle extra power/heat from pushing them to the limits well. Card manufactures were pushing those chips to the limit in sales competition and Nvidia was footing the bill. Nvidia had to bring down the hammer so they didn't end up losing money. It's just a simple case of a company trying to save money. Should Nvidia or AMD be responsible for "defective" chips when card manufacturers are trying to put 1.21 GW through their chips and only say 10% hold up? I don't think so. That won't stop people from trying to vilify Nvidia though, but I'd wager AMD is probably heading that direction as well and when it happens it will be all sunshine and rainbows for them.

Sure, NVIDIA is trying to save money. But do you think they would pass on the cost savings to us consumers? I highly doubt it.
I agree that consumers who purchase mainstream graphics cards probably have little need for overclocking or overvolting, but this is OCN here. We demand the best from our hardware, and consequently, we are willing to bear any risks involved with overclocking. For me, I want to at least have the option of unlocked overvolting, even if it completely voids any existing warranties.

Sacrificing overvolting for warranty coverage may seem reasonable to most consumers, but this shouldn't be standard practice across the board for every market segment (especially not the ultra high-end enthusiast cards).

AIB manufacturers should be allowed to factory overvolt their graphics cards provided that they take on all additional liability involved with overvolting. AIB have purchased the GPUs from NVIDIA, so they should be allowed to implement them in whatever manner they see fit. In other words, overvolting should be an option without the use of a soldering iron or flashing a card's BIOS, but solely at the risk of whoever does the overvolting.

If you agree with NVIDIA's approach, that's fine. But by agreeing, you also accept more limited choice in AIB features with minimal cost-savings in return.
    
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post #147 of 252
nvidia is retarded. if they continue this crap this gtx 690 and gtx 670 are my last nvidia cards. this made me regret getting a gtx 670 the other day.
post #148 of 252
This could be what AMD GPUs need to get back in the game. If NVIDIA locks voltages on the 7xx series and AMD takes advantage of that with the 8xxx series, then AMD has a chance to push NVIDIA out of the Enthusiast sector. However, a lot of good things have to happen for AMD to do this.
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post #149 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7Stealth1366 View Post

This could be what AMD GPUs need to get back in the game. If NVIDIA locks voltages on the 7xx series and AMD takes advantage of that with the 8xxx series, then AMD has a chance to push NVIDIA out of the Enthusiast sector. However, a lot of good things have to happen for AMD to do this.


For one amd would need to push out their next series while this is a hot topic and market online pointing it out ALOT. It is possible because amd does have a solid maketing and pr team, most my non enthusiast friends think amd is the best for gaming (0rocessors and graphics) simply because they have better advertising than intel and nvidia on the gaming front.
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post #150 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by i7Stealth1366 View Post

This could be what AMD GPUs need to get back in the game. If NVIDIA locks voltages on the 7xx series and AMD takes advantage of that with the 8xxx series, then AMD has a chance to push NVIDIA out of the Enthusiast sector. However, a lot of good things have to happen for AMD to do this.

Get back in the game? I wasn't aware that they're out of the game, considering AMD has competed quite well with nVidia (And unarguably won the generation at least once, twice if you don't count later price drops) since the HD4k series.
    
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