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post #211 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Then go back to that thread; you are not needed here.

well, you are the one who brought the other threads discussions here, not me

and oh, u mad bro?
post #212 of 252
All I know is I am very disappointed in the way Nvidia is handling overclocking this generation. This is coming from a guy that was absolutely in love with my 580's. They got OC right with Fermi so why go backwards???
post #213 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Yeah, I can tell by your post and your signature that you are far from an Nvidia fanboy...
Lol, The sig actually came from one of the AMD fanboy threads, where everyone was bashing Nvidia. Everyone was saying that Nvidia was getting trounced, and then they released the 690, and other 680 versions.

I like Nvidia better overall, but if AMD came out with a world beater, I would get the best, whatever color the logo.
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post #214 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlindDeafMute View Post

Lol, The sig actually came from one of the AMD fanboy threads, where everyone was bashing Nvidia. Everyone was saying that Nvidia was getting trounced, and then they released the 690, and other 680 versions.
I like Nvidia better overall, but if AMD came out with a world beater, I would get the best, whatever color the logo.
Right now, the 7950 is pretty much that world beater card. It's a $300 card which performs about the same as a $400 card, and even better at high resolutions. If only Nvidia has made a 384 bit card.
post #215 of 252
They didn't need to. They improved the efficiency of their ROPs and managed to bump their memory clock high enough to avoid it. Yeah, 384 bit would help, but every design has to have a weakness somewhere.
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post #216 of 252
Imagine going back to this time last year with a 7950 and showing people that in less than 6 months AMD will release a card up to 50% faster than a GTX 580 for just $300!










(I know, I know, the 7950 was $400 at launch but still)
post #217 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

They didn't need to. They improved the efficiency of their ROPs and managed to bump their memory clock high enough to avoid it. Yeah, 384 bit would help, but every design has to have a weakness somewhere.
But based on the fact that overclocking the memory gives more performance than overclocking the core, and that the 670 becomes inferior to the 7970 (stock) in triple monitor at high resolutions, it really seems like a bottleneck. I don't know much about circuit design, but it seems like they could have just made the bus wider; this is why it seems like they have been trying to tone down the performance of the 600 series, to me.
post #218 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

They didn't need to. They improved the efficiency of their ROPs and managed to bump their memory clock high enough to avoid it. Yeah, 384 bit would help, but every design has to have a weakness somewhere.
But based on the fact that overclocking the memory gives more performance than overclocking the core, and that the 670 becomes inferior to the 7970 (stock) in triple monitor at high resolutions, it really seems like a bottleneck. I don't know much about circuit design, but it seems like they could have just made the bus wider; this is why it seems like they have been trying to tone down the performance of the 600 series, to me.

My guess is that the memory bus is a remnant of the time when they actually were planning on releasing GK100. It's fairly unbalanced.

Damn me if this posts results in the thread being derailed and turned into another flame war full of people speculating about GK100.
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post #219 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Vanelay View Post

But based on the fact that overclocking the memory gives more performance than overclocking the core, and that the 670 becomes inferior to the 7970 (stock) in triple monitor at high resolutions, it really seems like a bottleneck. I don't know much about circuit design, but it seems like they could have just made the bus wider; this is why it seems like they have been trying to tone down the performance of the 600 series, to me.

It is a bottleneck, I agree. Like I said, there's going to be a bottleneck somewhere. That is inevitable.

The performance tradeoff from adding another 64 bit memory controller and 16 ROPs (as they're tied to the bus) was likely not enough to warrant ballooning the die size. They probably would have beaten AMD by a good amount (10%?), but it'd be a rather inefficient use of die real estate.The bottleneck would then just shift to the shaders/TMUs, and it would be an even more severe one than before. Realistically, they'd have to add more shaders and TMUs to make better use of the extra pixel fill rate and bandwidth — suddenly it stops being a GK104 and becomes a GK100. Also, you could probably throw any performance per watt advantage out the window. And Nvidia's supply issues suddenly become unspeakably terrible, even if they hadn't added the TMUs and shaders as I had mentioned.

I really don't think a wider bus is the answer. I think that Nvidia should do exactly what they're doing with GK110. The only reason why GK104 is under such scrutiny for a bandwidth bottleneck is because it ended up as their top part. It's a well balanced chip, really.

Tahiti on the other hand has a lot of strain on the caches. I think AMD should have gone with a 3-3-4 configuration like they did with Cape Verde and Pitcarin. They probably could have kept the performance crown, but performance per watt would look much better. Complete speculation on my part, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

My guess is that the memory bus is a remnant of the time when they actually were planning on releasing GK100. It's fairly unbalanced.
Damn me if this posts results in the thread being derailed and turned into another flame war full of people speculating about GK100.

I don't see a GK100, therefore it doesn't exist! I don't care about the mountain of evidence for it!

Pretty much the opposing argument. They also tend to miss the entire point: the lack of GK100 is the problem; it doesn't actually matter if it existed or not.

But, enough with my ranting.
Edited by Homeles - 10/8/12 at 7:31pm
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post #220 of 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

My guess is that the memory bus is a remnant of the time when they actually were planning on releasing GK100. It's fairly unbalanced.
Damn me if this posts results in the thread being derailed and turned into another flame war full of people speculating about GK100.
Based on Nvidia's naming system, it most likely existed, but it won't be ready for a while, and even then most of those cores are sold out already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

It is a bottleneck, I agree. Like I said, there's going to be a bottleneck somewhere. That is inevitable.
The performance tradeoff from adding another 64 bit memory controller and 16 ROPs (as they're tied to the bus) was likely not enough to warrant ballooning the die size. They probably would have beaten AMD by a good amount (10%?), but it'd be a rather inefficient use of die real estate.The bottleneck would then just shift to the shaders/TMUs, and it would be an even more severe one than before. Realistically, they'd have to add more shaders and TMUs to make better use of the extra pixel fill rate and bandwidth — suddenly it stops being a GK104 and becomes a GK100. Also, you could probably throw any performance per watt advantage out the window. And Nvidia's supply issues suddenly become unspeakably terrible, even if they hadn't added the TMUs and shaders as I had mentioned.
I really don't think a wider bus is the answer. I think that Nvidia should do exactly what they're doing with GK110. The only reason why GK104 is under such scrutiny for a bandwidth bottleneck is because it ended up as their top part. It's a well balanced chip, really.
If they released a 685, though, it might have actually put them on top, though, and that will win over a lot of the enthusiasts. It would be interesting if Nvidia actually released reasons why they did or didn't do things, but I guess they like to keep those things as industry secrets.
Quote:
Tahiti on the other hand has a lot of strain on the caches. I think AMD should have gone with a 3-3-4 configuration like they did with Cape Verde and Pitcarin. They probably could have kept the performance crown, but performance per watt would look much better. Complete speculation on my part, though.
How can you tell if there is a cache bottleneck? This makes me wish I actually new anything about computer design.
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