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Do I need better cooling?

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Ok so I been trying to get my FX-8150 to 4.5ghz on air. Currently on a CM HYPER 212+. Now 4.4ghz, 1.29v, it sits pretty 52c doing intel burn test on very high. I was suggested very high is the most I really need, extreme is silly. I turn it up to 4.5ghz (22.5x200fsb) and left the voltage. Well that was a fail, pc froze, hard reset. Cranked it up a notch. After that it just overheats. So I'm guessing I need a better cooler for 4.5+. Now another thing is, past 1.28v my cpu voltage gets weird. It starts to jump big numbers. 1.85, 1.296, 1.313, 1.333, and so on. So I have no idea if im overheating it from too much voltage. But 4.4ghz seems to be the last I can get on the MP without overheating it.

I may also need a new case. I currently have http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068&Tpk=cooler%20master%20centurion%205%20ii and boy is it a little cramped lately.

Full specs:

FX 8150 w/ cmh 212+
7970 lightning
12gb ddr3 1600mhz
MSI 890fxa-gd70
4 fans (front/side intake, rear/spout exhaust)
OCZ ZX 850w gold


Just in case someone requires them, I get complaints from other sites for not posting specs.
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post #2 of 28
The Hyper 212+ is a budget cooler, a decent one, but still budget. You can't expect it to keep up with high end air. AMD chips generally like cold, and get unstable when near their thermal ceiling- this is a given, but higher end air setups are generally quite an increase in price, unless you can find used.
Quote:
Now another thing is, past 1.28v my cpu voltage gets weird. It starts to jump big numbers. 1.85, 1.296, 1.313, 1.333, and so on

This is not natural. What are you using to read the vCore? 1.85vCore is really, really bad if this is infact true, even if it is a short duration transient. Could be a problem with the voltage regulation from pushing the clock, or jsut a software bug. Are you actively cooling the VRM section of the motherboard? IT WILL NEED IT. Bulldozer is power hungry.
    
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post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 
Thats what my board shows for voltages and it says in the bios "its based on the cpu VDD". I'm using the bios to read all this. And I'm not actively cooling the VRMS. The board as DR.Mos on it and I was pretty sure the vrms and mosfest were combined or something under this cooler? So no I am not even sure. I do believe the voltage is weird after switching to bulldozer because I dont remember it being like that on my phenom. But no the bios is regulating these voltage offsets. I wasn't meaning to say my cpu runs theres weird voltages, but they are the options in the bios past a certain point.
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post #4 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by heroxoot View Post

Thats what my board shows for voltages and it says in the bios "its based on the cpu VDD". I'm using the bios to read all this. And I'm not actively cooling the VRMS. The board as DR.Mos on it and I was pretty sure the vrms and mosfest were combined or something under this cooler? So no I am not even sure. I do believe the voltage is weird after switching to bulldozer because I dont remember it being like that on my phenom. But no the bios is regulating these voltage offsets. I wasn't meaning to say my cpu runs theres weird voltages, but they are the options in the bios past a certain point.

Ah I see, slight misunderstanding there; it seemed as though you were running the chip that high. You mention a Phenom, have you updated the BIOS since you installed your new chip? This could potentially be an issue if not.
Quote:
And I'm not actively cooling the VRMS. The board as DR.Mos on it and I was pretty sure the vrms and mosfest were combined or something under this cooler?

Not to be picky, but this is suicide on an MSI board. I'd definitely recommend putting a fan on this if you can. (Sorry, I just don't trust MSI, they have way to many failure prone VRM designs).
    
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post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 
Yes this board is known to have had failures in its past, I understand it. This one was given to me by msi as a replacement. But as I have read there was also a bad batch of these back when it came out. They claim it was fixed and so far, I got no issues. How would I even get a fan on that? The buggers don't seem to get all that hot, then again im not sure which temp is them. I been using multiple tools and keeping a average. I know the FX series lacks sensors so its heat is based on the socket temps. Mostly HW monitor and HWinfo x64. Temps for system and such stay low. besides the cpu temp getting to 59c before it shuts down ( give or take the cpu is a few degrees hotter than the socket)and things like aux and ti/d1+ stay in the 40c area. Motherboard temp hardly gets past 35c.

My bios is the latest. I just know the bios overhauled its self when I switched from phenom II x4 925, to FX 8150. A lot of OC options obviously changed, what with it being different. I never really OC'd the phenom much. I got it stable 3.5ghz (stock 2.8) with the FSB alone and it was great.
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post #6 of 28
Quote:
How would I even get a fan on that?

Something like a 40mm fan (not sure of the exact layout of the VRM heatsink here, I do not own this board) and a couple long screws like radiator screws. Zipties also work. This tends to drop temperatures dramatically on small motherboard heatsinks that don't have a lot of flow on them. 2cents.gif
Quote:
I been using multiple tools and keeping a average. I know the FX series lacks sensors so its heat is based on the socket temps. Mostly HW monitor and HWinfo x64. Temps for system and such stay low. besides the cpu temp getting to 59c before it shuts down ( give or take the cpu is a few degrees hotter than the socket)and things like aux and ti/d1+ stay in the 40c area. Motherboard temp hardly gets past 35c.

Temps don't seem too bad, but the CPU temp is a little high. How does it shutdown at 59? Thermal rating on those are 62C, if I remember right. Unless your sensor is off slightly, but that I doubt, because AMD sensors as a whole- are not very helpful. Could just honestly be a heat issue, as you are close to the thermal ceiling, which for AMD, means unstable and inconsistent. I'm curious, say you open Prime95, how does your vCore react? Set vs. Effective, that is?
    
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post #7 of 28
Thread Starter 
The vcore gradually increases from the minimum it runs up to the max its set for (in this case for 4.4ghz it starts at 1.248, then increases to some in between voltages, till it hits the set bios voltage of 1.296) usually taking a minute to get its self up. Seemed pretty normal to me, as it was using more voltage as the cpu increased workload. Right now its idle at 4.4ghz and the system temp is 28c and so is the cpu, so im not sure if these are the same damn thing. AUX is 36c and t1/d1+ is 29c, but I got no idea what that even is. I am 110% sure the cpu is over heating though, because yea, its fine when I have it clocked slightly less and the temp stays around 50c.

When it overheats, the pc just freezes over. Monitor sleeps, pc stays running, gpu lights become in active ( my gpu has like 10 lights that blink when at load).

And just to include, the quiet type features of my board are off. C1E, AMD CNQ, etc.
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post #8 of 28
Quote:
(in this case for 4.4ghz it starts at 1.248, then increases to some in between voltages, till it hits the set bios voltage of 1.296)
Quote:
C1E, AMD CNQ

Do you also have Turbo turned off? I saw you mention Very-High LLC in the OP. You might want to try a lower LLC and a higher static voltage, but don't lower it to the point where it droops under load. Also, you might try increasing the LLC to "Ultra High" if you board has that option, not "Extreme", however. Not 100% on how your BIOS is laid out, so this is a little confusing. I just don't see pushing too much more vCore through it without adding additional cooling.

And at that voltage, you probably have nothing to worry about at all on your board as far as MSI issues.
    
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post #9 of 28
Thread Starter 
Yes turbo is off, and I do not have LLC on this board. Not sure what other things it goes by either. Upon a short google search I see a guy got it to 4.7ghz on this board no problem, which is why I give it more credit than it receives. I'm unsure where I implied high Load line calibration though, because I'm not sure what else is considered such.

here are some bios pictures





also while in the bios I noticed I have cpu/ddr phase control off and hpet on. I know when I was phenom OCing hpet was known to cause issue with stability.
Edited by heroxoot - 10/6/12 at 11:48am
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post #10 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by heroxoot View Post

Yes this board is known to have had failures in its past, I understand it. This one was given to me by msi as a replacement. But as I have read there was also a bad batch of these back when it came out. They claim it was fixed and so far, I got no issues. How would I even get a fan on that? The buggers don't seem to get all that hot, then again im not sure which temp is them. I been using multiple tools and keeping a average. I know the FX series lacks sensors so its heat is based on the socket temps. Mostly HW monitor and HWinfo x64. Temps for system and such stay low. besides the cpu temp getting to 59c before it shuts down ( give or take the cpu is a few degrees hotter than the socket)and things like aux and ti/d1+ stay in the 40c area. Motherboard temp hardly gets past 35c.
My bios is the latest. I just know the bios overhauled its self when I switched from phenom II x4 925, to FX 8150. A lot of OC options obviously changed, what with it being different. I never really OC'd the phenom much. I got it stable 3.5ghz (stock 2.8) with the FSB alone and it was great.

I really don't buy this.

The 890FXA-GD70 borrows the same ill-fated design as the 790FXA-GD70 and is among MSI's most failure-prone boards in their crap 790/890/870/970 lineup.

Two points need to be noted here:

1. The FX 8150 is AMDs most power-hungry chip till date and has been known to throttle quality 4+1 phase boards including the ASrock 970A/990FX extreme 3 and the Asus M5A88M (with VRM cooling).

2. The GD70 is far from being reliable even on overclocked Phenoms, let alone FX chips.

And the whole "improvement" propaganda is bs TBH. They tried pulling the same thing with the 970A-G46 by including heatsinks over the 'fets and claiming the board was "new and improved"....the very next day we get news that the board blew under a stock 8150.

DRMos actually lends to the overall problem here. They are not capable of handling high current/power draw over a prolonged period of time reliably.

I wouldn't OC an 8150 on that board if I were you.
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