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[UCLA] astronomers discover star racing around black hole at center of our galaxy - Page 9

post #81 of 97
haha yah, thats the best answer yet, if either. maybe we can see a picture of our Galaxy from a rebound off some planet from Andromeda.. Talkin out me butt on that one though, no clue if even close to possible.. But have to imagine that Light from our Galaxy has reached Andromeda, and something could potentially reflect that light back towards us, maybe give us a view of our Galaxy , but form long ago

Could show us a picture of our Galaxy from 4.975 million years ago if this is even possible.

That would be cool eh?

would there be considerable blue shift involved ?
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post #82 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

There is the cosmic recycling theory...basically you have a Big Bang...black holes form and suck everything back into one spot...eventually black holes will eat other black holes until you get all the matter back in one spot again and the gravity can't contain it...then you have another big bang which would really just be a super nova on the black hole scale. Not everything would have to be gathered up either. There might be parts of our universe that are older than the rest of it.
So I am sure the black holes would just eat each other up eventually. They orbit because they didn't have a direct collision and have enough velocity to counter the gravity, but I am pretty sure every orbit will eventually decay. It may take a number of years that unfathomable to the human mind, but it will happen. Even the moon's orbit is decaying at something like a half inch a year...in a billion years or so the moon is going to come crashing down.

From my understanding, that is incorrect. The big bang isn't just matter exploding into space. It's space -itself- expanding. Even if all the matter in the universe was in one point, it would just be a huge black hole, because as far as I know, black holes can't suck in the fabric of space itself, only dent it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormX2 View Post

Hmm, well yoru first link was nothing, second picture if you look closely its almost the same as the one I posted. location wise, we are considered Middle / Closer to center, then we are Middle / Close to Outer edge
I too am a believe on the idea of Big Cruch = Big bang.
And I agreee with the decayed orbit, over time everything will have entered the event horizon of it galactic center, I also believe that to be true will planets orbiting stars.
Might help explain how that one system with the Gass Planet closer to its star than Murcury, since we firmly believe gass giants only form in outer ranges. All will be sucked in someday.
some, rediculously far away day ;p

Pretty sure the "big crunch" hypothesis was disproven when dark matter/dark energy were discovered.
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post #83 of 97
I must have missed that unprecedented event where they Proved Dark Energy existed.

As far as I remember, it was Simply something thrown into Computer simulations to keep the Galaxies together.
Human Simulation is not Law.

Though I understand that side of the thought process, I just feel as though Big Crunch to Big Bang makes too much sense to ignore. Its just, much like every other theory out there, damn near impossible for Us to Prove.

I will accept that Big Crunch has been discredited, but never disproven, and doubtful we will ever truly know, Ever
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post #84 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormX2 View Post

I must have missed that unprecedented event where they Proved Dark Energy existed.

As far as I remember, it was Simply something thrown into Computer simulations to keep the Galaxies together.
Human Simulation is not Law.

Though I understand that side of the thought process, I just feel as though Big Crunch to Big Bang makes too much sense to ignore. Its just, much like every other theory out there, damn near impossible for Us to Prove.

I will accept that Big Crunch has been discredited, but never disproven, and doubtful we will ever truly know, Ever

Not only is the universe expanding, but it's actually accelerating in its expansion. So there is currently no sign of any slowdown that would indicate a big crunch being possible.
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post #85 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormX2 View Post

I must have missed that unprecedented event where they Proved Dark Energy existed.
As far as I remember, it was Simply something thrown into Computer simulations to keep the Galaxies together.
Human Simulation is not Law.
Though I understand that side of the thought process, I just feel as though Big Crunch to Big Bang makes too much sense to ignore. Its just, much like every other theory out there, damn near impossible for Us to Prove.
I will accept that Big Crunch has been discredited, but never disproven, and doubtful we will ever truly know, Ever

There is something there, they call it dark energy. It is the current accepted hypothesis. Even if dark energy turns out to be something else, the observation itself (that space expansion is accelerating, not deccelerating) disproves the big crunch hypothesis.
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post #86 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

From my understanding, that is incorrect. The big bang isn't just matter exploding into space. It's space -itself- expanding. Even if all the matter in the universe was in one point, it would just be a huge black hole, because as far as I know, black holes can't suck in the fabric of space itself, only dent it.
Pretty sure the "big crunch" hypothesis was disproven when dark matter/dark energy were discovered.

Incorrect assuming that a big bang isn't actually just exploding matter into space...we haven't proved that space actually has a fabric. In the end it could just be an ultimate vacuum devoid of any and all particles and energy. Just simply...nothing. As the universe expands there is then something there and it becomes space. Suck the matter out of it and then it is nothing again. The simplest explanation is often the correct one.

We haven't had a black hole big enough to start sucking the galaxies of the known universe back to one spot either...no way to know what something with that much pull could do. It co-insides with the time warping theory that is hoping to be tested by this discovered star. A black hole could be strong enough to suck in "time", to take any fabric of existence and compact it down to its raw elements...whatever they may be.

No telling what could happen when you have a massive black hole with most of the universe inside it...not that it matters to us since every star in the universe would be gone before it would exist.

And dark matter doesn't disprove anything...it is just one more thing that will get eaten by the black holes. Likely is their primary "food source". It might even be what the black holes will use to start pulling the currently expanding universe back together. Kind of like pulling on a rope. The dark matter just drags everything else with it.

It is all interesting stuff for sure. There might even be multiple separate yet related things happening. Quantum mechanics allows for such, I believe.
Edited by Vagrant Storm - 10/9/12 at 11:27am
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post #87 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

Incorrect assuming that a big bang isn't actually just exploding matter into space...we haven't proved that space actually has a fabric. In the end it could just be an ultimate vacuum devoid of any and all particles and energy. Just simply...nothing. As the universe expands there is then something there and it becomes space. Suck the matter out of it and then it is nothing again. The simplest explanation is often the correct one.
We haven't had a black hole big enough to start sucking the galaxies of the known universe back to one spot either...no way to know what something with that much pull could do. It co-insides with the time warping theory that is hoping to be tested by this discovered star. A black hole could be strong enough to suck in "time", to take any fabric of existence and compact it down to its raw elements...whatever they may be.
No telling what could happen when you have a massive black hole with most of the universe inside it...not that it matters to us since every star in the universe would be gone before it would exist.
And dark matter doesn't disprove anything...it is just one more thing that will get eaten by the black holes. Likely is their primary "food source". It might even be what the black holes will use to start pulling the currently expanding universe back together. Kind of like pulling on a rope. The dark matter just drags everything else with it.
It is all interesting stuff for sure. There might even be multiple separate yet related things happening. Quantum mechanics allows for such, I believe.

General relativity is currently accepted. Fabric is an analogy used to describe the behavior of spacetime in general relativity.
445468b-i1.0.jpg

You can't "suck in" time, it's not matter, it doesn't have particles, the same way you can't "suck in" length, height or width.

Yes, dark energy/matter does disprove things, like the big crunch hypothesis. Or rather, it provides strong evidence against it, and there is no evidence supporting it.
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post #88 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhill2029 View Post

This is something i've always been curious about, are black holes static or do they move? Based on the super massive black hole in the centre of our galaxy it would seem to be static otherwise our galaxy wouldn't exist. Hmm...

Everything is moving relative to something else.

This galaxy is moving, and there are black holes that aren't in the centers of galaxies, many of which are orbiting a wide variety of things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heat Miser View Post

Its possible to escape black holes through magnetic fields. Magnetic fields aren't affected by black holes and they can pull objects out of the black hole. Since not even light can escape a black hole's gravity, and the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second, then these objects being pulled out of the black hole through the magnetic fields escape route are traveling faster than the speed of light.
I did a quick google search for an article:

No.

The particles mentioned weren't past the event horizon, and were no traveling faster than light.
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post #89 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Not only is the universe expanding, but it's actually accelerating in its expansion. So there is currently no sign of any slowdown that would indicate a big crunch being possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

There is something there, they call it dark energy. It is the current accepted hypothesis. Even if dark energy turns out to be something else, the observation itself (that space expansion is accelerating, not deccelerating) disproves the big crunch hypothesis.

yes yes we all saw the same videos on Science channel ;p

The truth is still far out of our reach unfortunately, Dark energy is a "we think its there, because the models say it should be there" but its far from disproving or proving anything as it stands.

there are alot of wacky ideas out there, so it is hard to put stock into any one thing. But I still feel as though the ChrunchBang makes sense as to how an initial; Big Bang started. Matter wasnt created, just recycled? over and over again, before us and after us.

And if you subscribe at all to the Multiverse idea, which Im not so sure where I stand on that one, then everything that we could ever imagine would be possible , probable, impossible, and improbable.



Ikon, thats the only reason why I just cant be all in with the CrunchBang, pretty well accepted that expansion is accelerating, what we as Humans know pretty much dictates that it would be impossible at that point.

We still could be horribly wrong on that idea though, and Id prefer it to be wrong lol, go against everything we thought possible.

but hey, that survey being done on quasars that experience gravitational lense effect are helping to prove many of those theories. Just for me it will take more than that for me to truly believe anything ;p
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Nameless Traitor
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post #90 of 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormX2 View Post

yes yes we all saw the same videos on Science channel ;p
The truth is still far out of our reach unfortunately, Dark energy is a "we think its there, because the models say it should be there" but its far from disproving or proving anything as it stands.
there are alot of wacky ideas out there, so it is hard to put stock into any one thing. But I still feel as though the ChrunchBang makes sense as to how an initial; Big Bang started. Matter wasnt created, just recycled? over and over again, before us and after us.
And if you subscribe at all to the Multiverse idea, which Im not so sure where I stand on that one, then everything that we could ever imagine would be possible , probable, impossible, and improbable.
Ikon, thats the only reason why I just cant be all in with the CrunchBang, pretty well accepted that expansion is accelerating, what we as Humans know pretty much dictates that it would be impossible at that point.
We still could be horribly wrong on that idea though, and Id prefer it to be wrong lol, go against everything we thought possible.
but hey, that survey being done on quasars that experience gravitational lense effect are helping to prove many of those theories. Just for me it will take more than that for me to truly believe anything ;p

It's not "there because models say it should be there". It's a proposed explanation for a phenomena. The phenomena itself is what says the big crunch hypothesis is likely incorrect. Even if dark matter/dark energy are disproven, it doesn't make the big crunch any more likely.
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