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$100 vs. $5 HDMI cables? - Page 3

post #21 of 38
Here's a very good resource explaining all you need to know about HDMI cables:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-cable-information.htm

Here's your short answer from the article linked above:
Quote:
The answer is that, at short lengths, in the vast majority of circumstances, all non-defective HDMI cables will perform equally well (and no, it doesn't matter what spec version it is)
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post #22 of 38
Only difference is shielding. A digital signal can still be disrupted just like anything else electrical. However this only matters over long distances past any sort of high power electronics.
post #23 of 38
Yea, dont cheap out on cables. If its $1, then its for a reason. Also, watch premium branding. Which can over price them.
In the A/V company I work for. We use pretty much AudioQuest cabling for most AV connections. It is available at BestBuy, but dont go there. Over priced. You can find much better pricing through other retailers, or a local dealer.
Here is AudioQuests page: AudioQuest

A document by them, also available on there webpage. Warning! Big Article (Click to show)
HDMI Demystified
April 20111
What is HDMI?
High-Definition Multimedia Interface, or HDMI, is a digital audio, video
and control signal format defined by seven of the largest consumer
electronics manufacturers. HDMI specifications and compliance are
enforced by an organization called HDMI LLC, which is controlled by
representatives from the seven founding companies. Released on
12/9/2002, it is supported by more than 300 companies. HDMI has
several advantages over previous connection solutions:
• 1080p and higher resolution capability
• Multichannel high-resolution audio
• One cable for video, audio and control
• Two-way communication for easy system control
• Automatic display and source matching for resolution, format
and aspect ratio
• Computer compatibility
• Ethernet/Internet Connectivity
The Evolution of HDMI
Since HDMI’s inception, the capabilities have changed as updates
have been made to the specification. Version numbers, such as 1.2,
1.3, and most recently 1.4 and 1.4a, have marked these updates.
The majority of the changes involve an increased number of options
for manufacturers to choose from. All new versions are compatible
with electronics designed to meet previous standards, but will not
add features that the existing products in your system do not have.
For example, a Blu-ray player with 1080p, built to version 1.3 spec
will work with a 1080i television built to version 1.2 spec, but will not
give you 1080p.
The current version of HDMI, version 1.4a, includes many new
feature options, including audio return channel, 4k x 2k resolution,
support for 3D video and 3D broadcast video formats, as well as
support for Ethernet.2
Features and Data
Electronics manufacturers must carefully choose from these
features. This is because the current HDMI specification limits the
amount of data any piece of electronics can send and receive to 10.2
Gbps (Gigabits per second) or less. This limit is not arbitrary, but is
based on current technological realities. A good way to think of this
is as if HDMI LLC has created a buffet of options and has given you a
10.2 Gbps plate. It is all you can eat, but it must fit on this 10.2 Gbps
plate. Some features take up more room on this plate than others, so
the electronics manufacturers must determine what features will be
most desirable for their customers.
Video Options
• Resolution: Refers to the number of pixels in both the horizontal
and vertical direction per frame. Although measured in both
dimensions, it is usually referred to by only one of the dimensions.
For example, 1080p is 1920x1080 pixels per frame, which is in
wide use on Blu-ray Disc and a variety of other consumer highdefinition sources. The current highest resolution video format
supported by HDMI 1.4 and 1.4a is 4k, which can be defined
as either 3840x2160 or 4096x2160 pixels per frame. While 4k
is often mentioned prominently in discussions of HDMI 1.4’s
capabilities, no current or planned consumer video formats employ
4k resolution. Such an increase in resolution would dramatically
affect the amount of data transmitted.
• Interlaced/Progressive Scan: Progressive scan displays the
video as a series of complete images or frames, while interlaced
divides these frames into two fields, one made of the even horizontal rows of pixels and the other of the odd rows. The most common
interlaced format is 1080i, which uses half as much data as 1080p/60.
• Color Depth: This is the amount of color information per channel/
per pixel (red, green, and blue), usually described as the
number of bits per color channel, such as 8-bits, for a total of 24-bits
per pixel. While color depths up to 16-bits per color channel are
currently supported by HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.4, when engaged,
Deep Color transmission is typically 10-bits or 12-bits per color
channel, increasing the color bit depth to 30-bits or 36-bits total 3
per pixel. Increases in color bit depth, such as those typical when
the Deep Color feature in HDMI 1.3 and HDMI 1.4 components
is engaged, dramatically increases the amount of data sent over
HDMI cables.
• Color Space: Different types of source material use different
ranges of colors. Color spaces act as a map to translate these
different color ranges between sources. For example, standard
definition video from DVD, cable and satellite sources all conform
to a different color space than HDTV and HD video sources like
Blu-ray. Having multiple color spaces available allows color to
be more accurately reproduced from source to source. Additional
color space options do not affect the amount of data transmitted.
• 3D: A 3-dimensional effect is created by rapidly displaying
separate images for each eye, and keeping the images intended
for each eye as entirely separate as possible. This new feature
offers resolutions up to 1080p in a variety of configurations for a
3D effect. The data rate for 3D varies depending on the system
being used. The frame compatible 3D systems used for cable
and satellite broadcast signals are most commonly 1080i using
so-called “top/bottom” or “side by side” formats that reduce
either horizontal or vertical resolution to conform to the data rates
required for typical 1080i HD broadcast signals. Broadcast 3D
doesn’t require a higher data rate than a typical 2D 1080p signal.
The frame sequential, or frame packing system currently used
for Blu-ray 3D offers full 1080p resolution for each eye, which
doubles the data rate of the signals transmitted via HDMI.
• Refresh rate: Refresh rate refers to the number of times the
image on the television is updated per second. It is described in Hz
(hertz), and should not be confused with fps (frames per second).
One of the most common refresh rates used in HDTVs in the
United States is 60 Hz. Currently1080p at 60Hz is the maximum
signal resolution and refresh rate that will be transmitted between
HDMI-connected components. The 120 Hz and 240 Hz refresh
rates that are increasingly common in today’s HDTVs are created
in the display and not encoded in the source or created by the
source component, so they have no impact on the data rates of
HDMI-connected devices.4
Audio Options
• Audio formats: Options range from Dolby Digital and DTS,
which are standard lossy compression formats, to uncompressed
multichannel PCM and newer formats such as Dolby TrueHD and
DTS-HD Master Audio that offer lossless, high resolution digital
surround sound. Uncompressed or lossless audio formats have a
minor impact on the data transmitted over HDMI.
• Lip sync: Synchronizes audio and video compensating for signal
processing delays. There is no impact on the data used.
• Audio Return Channel: Abbreviated as A.R.C. This is a new
feature that allows a single HDMI cable, connected to an AV
receiver or surround sound processor, to not only send video
from the AV receiver to the HDTV, but to also send audio from
Built-in Tuner
HDMI HDMI
Audio Cable
Audio Return Channel : Current
Built-in Tuner
HDMI HDMI
With
Audio Return Channel
Audio Return Channel : Future
Simplies cabling by combining the upstream
audio capablity into a single HDMI cable
Built-in Tuner
HDMI HDMI
Audio Cable
Audio Return Channel : Current
Built-in Tuner
HDMI HDMI
With
Audio Return Channel
Audio Return Channel : Future
Simplies cabling by combining the upstream
audio capablity into a single HDMI cable5
the HDTV back to the AV receiver. Although it is a new feature
for HDMI 1.4, it does not require a special cable. There is no
impact on data transmission rate. The HDMI components in the
system must support this feature, and this feature is not backward
compatible with HDMI components that do not support A.R.C.. In
short, if the components do not have the A.R.C. marking near the
HDMI jack, that indicates that A.R.C. is not supported, and the
A.R.C. feature will not work.
Additional Features
• Ethernet: A feature included in HDMI 1.4 and 1.4a that allows
enabled equipment to share a bi-directional 100 Mbps Ethernet
connection through the HDMI cable, as long as one of the HDMIconnected components in the system is connected to the
Internet. This feature requires an HDMI cable specified as “with
Ethernet.” The optional Ethernet feature does not effect the amount
of data transmitted over the four audio+video signal-carrying pairs.
All connected components must support this feature in order for it
to work.
• Control: Consumer Electronic Control (CEC) allows electronics
to control one another without additional hardware or add-on
control systems. Controls are somewhat limited, but often enable
the customer to reduce the number of remotes needed. CEC
does not impact the data used.
HDMI Cables:
All HDMI cables are made up of
19 individual conductors. Many
of these wires perform multiple
tasks and transmit large amounts
of data, so the quality of the conductors, precision of the geometry,
and the quality of the termination
all affect the ability of the cable to
properly implement its tasks.
For the most part, unlike HDMI enabled components, HDMI cables
do not have features, they have capacity (often described as “speed” 6
and measured in Gbps). The one exception to this is the new
Ethernet feature, which requires a Ethernet-compatible cable. Other
than this exception, the cable does not care what the resolution, color
depth, or refresh rate of the signal is, as long as the data that makes
up the signal is not too large for the cable to pass. HDMI LLC has
approved two different categories of cable based on their respective
speed ratings.
High Speed: meets or exceeds the maximum
current data rate for HDMI of 10.2 Gbps,
capable of transmitting 100% of the data
required for al of HDMI’s current audio/video
features, including Blu-ray 3D. Nearly all short length cables meet or
exceed this category. Very high quality cables will meet this specification for lengths up to about 10m. For the most part, longer length
HDMI cables can only meet the High Speed specification with the
use of active-circuit equalization or amplification.
Standard Speed: meets or exceeds the minimum HD data rate of 2.25 Gbps, the amount
needed to transmit 1080i or 720p. Many
Standard Speed cables are capable of higher
data rates that allow for features such as 1080p or broadcast 3D
(which requires about 4 Gbps), but do not have the capacity to
achieve the High Speed rating. A well-made moderate length (such
as 12m) cable may even be able to pass Blu-ray 3D, but still be rated
as Standard Speed. Even the best long length HDMI cables are
currently limited to a Standard Speed rating.
Since the ability for an HDMI cable to pass Ethernet requires an
additional twisted-pair of conductors inside the cable, HDMI has
added two additional cable types. These are High Speed with
Ethernet and Standard Speed with Ethernet.
To recap, there are four cable types approved for home use by
HDMI LLC:
1. Standard Speed
2. High Speed
3. Standard Speed with Ethernet
4. High Speed with Ethernet7
Other speed rating systems are on the market, but are not approved
by HDMI LLC and are primarily for marketing purposes. Only the four
cable types listed above are certified by HDMI LLC. Also be wary
of cable manufacturers that tout incredibly high data rates or speed
ratings on very long length cables. These manufacturers are usually
labeling long length cables based on results obtained from testing
shorter versions of the cable.
Cable Length, Data Rate, and the Cliff Effect:
In earlier sections, length is often mentioned as a concern for HDMI
cables. The reason for this is that HDMI cables function differently
than analog cables, like component video. When a component video
cable is run longer, it will pick up noise and lose signal along the way
in a very linear fashion. It is unrelated to the amount of signal being
sent, and will result in visible noise and loss of detail and brightness.
A better component video cable will lessen this effect and give you
better performance by reducing the amount of distortion in the cable
and shielding the signal from outside noise.
HDMI cables transmit packets of digital data along twisted pairs of
wire. While there is still noise and loss, as long as enough of the
signal gets to the television, error correction inside the TV will fill
in the missing pieces and give you a good clean picture that is
difficult to distinguish from a picture with fewer errors. If loss is
too great, the image will appear to “sparkle” or you will lose picture
completely. This is called the “cliff effect,” which will be explained
further below.
Picture Quality
100%
Cable Length
Picture Quality
100%
Cable Length
Picture quality of an analog signal gradually declines over
longer length of cable.
Picture quality of digital signal (e.g. HDMI) drops suddenly
after certain length of cable.8
The primary factors that affect any given quality level of HDMI
cable’s ability to provide a picture, are the amount of data being sent,
and the length of the cable. Higher data rates bump up against the
capacity of the cable, a capability which very simply diminishes with
length. A cable that may be capable of passing 1080i at 30m may
not be able to pass 1080p until it is as short as 15m, and will not be
able to pass 1080p 3D signals or Deep Color signals.
The Premium Cable Argument:
More than any other cable category, premium HDMI cables are
maligned for being “not worth it.” This is mostly due to a fundamental
misunderstanding of how digital works as well as oversight of all
the functions an HDMI cable is tasked with. That said, there is an
element of truth to what is often said about HDMI cables. Two
short length (let’s say 2m) cables of different qualities connected to
identical systems will often be difficult to distinguish from one
another in picture quality. This is because the error rate is very low
on a short length cables and the HDMI signal contains extra bits for
error correction. Sharp eyes may see differences in brightness, or
errors when a lot of motion is present. These video differences can
be more pronounced as lengths increase, but are not always as
clear as night and day. Premium cables are capable of reliably going
longer distances at higher data rates. Because of this, most of the grumbling and pushback from naysayers is in regards to shorter cables.
It should be said though, that errors do still exist on shorter cables
and error correction is never ideal. A premium cable, even in short
Picture Quality
100%
Cable Length
Picture Quality
100%
Cable Length
Picture quality of an analog signal gradually declines over
longer length of cable.
Picture quality of digital signal (e.g. HDMI) drops suddenly
after certain length of cable.9
lengths, will result in less error correction and a measurably better
signal, even though the human eye might be easily fooled.
While the human eye is easily fooled, the human ear is in many ways
much more perceptive. Think of this … if you are trying to really hear
something, what is the first thing you do? Close your eyes! This is
because vision can be so deceptive. Don’t forget that HDMI is not just
a video cable, but is also an audio cable. It is THE audio cable for our
most sophisticated consumer level surround formats, but audio is rarely
mentioned, leaving all of the focus on video. For many reasons, audio
is far more complicated to reproduce, and error correction is rarely
proven effective. This is partly due to the more freeform nature of
audio verses video, as well as the ear’s sensitivity to timing errors
(also known as jitter in the digital world). The audio differences in
HDMI cables can be heard just as dramatically on even the shortest
lengths, and improvements in the cable materials make a marked
difference in the sound quality from all HDMI enabled devices.
The AudioQuest Difference:
If you’ve read AudioQuest 101 or the Four Elements, you understand
the fundamental design principles in all AudioQuest cables. Given
the complexity of HDMI, one can imagine that the Four Elements are
integral to the design. Here is a refresher on these design elements
and how they relate to AudioQuest HDMI cables.
Solid Core: Unlike most HDMI cables on the market, all
AudioQuest HDMI cables use only solid core conductors. This
allows for reduced distortion (jitter in the digital world), which means
lower error rates. In our listening, solid core conductors greatly
improve the audio performance of an HDMI cable, even when
simply transmitting signal from a cable box to a TV!
Metals: Great attention is paid to the quality of metals used in
AudioQuest HDMI cables. The same quality LGC (Long-Grain
Copper) used in our analog cables is used as our HDMI cables’ base
metal, with increased amounts of silver plating added as the models
improve. AudioQuest has even introduced a PSS (Perfect-Surface
Silver) HDMI cable, called Diamond. Quality metals make large
improvements in digital audio performance. 10
Geometry: Consistent, reliable performance from an HDMI
cable, particularly a long one, requires very precise geometry
with tight tolerances. This is why AudioQuest HDMI cables are
constructed using the best precision twist machines available.
Dielectric: In HDMI cables, the proper dielectric (insulation)
material can not only reduce jitter and crosstalk, its mechanical
qualities and its resistance to deformation significantly affect its
ability to maintain the necessary precise geometry. AudioQuest
chooses the best dielectric materials for all its HDMI cables in order
to ensure that the geometry maintains its integrity. Coffee and
Diamond also have the additional enhancement of AudioQuest’s
patented Dielectric-Bias System (DBS), which drastically reduces any
distortion and timing errors caused by the dielectric. For more information on DBS, see our separate DBS educational module.
Other technologies beyond the four elements:
Directionality: All audio cables are directional,
including HDMI. The correct direction is determined
through listening to every batch of metal used
in every AudioQuest audio cable. Care is even
taken to run the conductors used in the Audio
Return Channel in the opposite direction to ensure the best
performance for that application. Arrows are clearly marked on the
plugs to insure you get the best sound quality.
Terminations: All AudioQuest HDMI cables are terminated using
a wave solder machine, an automated process that allows for the
greatest control of conductor placement, solder flow and temperature.
This not only insures a reliable connection, but also further reduces
signal loss and distortion.
AudioQuest High Speed with Ethernet:
All HDMI cables up through 10m currently made by AudioQuest,
meet or exceed the 10.2 Gbps maximum current data rate for HDMI.
These cables are rated and labeled as High Speed with Ethernet,
regardless of price level. From 12m to 20m, AudioQuest HDMI cables
are rated and labeled Standard Speed with Ethernet. AudioQuest 11
HDMI cables will transmit 100% of the data required for Blu-ray 3D
up to and including 12M lengths, and they will transmit 100% of the
data required for broadcast 3D from cable and satellite sources up
to 20M. Every cable is tested to ensure that it passes 1080p on a Bit
Error Rate (BER) machine. 100% QC is unheard of in the cable
industry, but AudioQuest feels that HDMI is complicated enough
without having to worry about defective cables.
Troubleshooting HDMI Cables:
Despite rigorous QC, issues can arise in HDMI systems. It is rarely
a defective cable, but it can sometimes seem that way. There is a lot
going on in a system configured with HDMI and that means troubleshooting an issue may not be as simple as it is with analog cables.
Not only does the video and audio need to be transmitted, but also
data and copy protection (HDCP) and various “handshaking” metadata. These issues can be broken down into a couple of categories
as they relate to cables.
Cliff Effect: Cliff effect typically affects only long length cables. If all
the gear in the system is set up properly and capable of the desired
resolution, but you are not getting a picture or the image appears to
“sparkle,” it is most likely cliff effect. You can test this by lowering the
resolution on the source and seeing if the picture appears. You can
have this problem even if a cable is rated to be capable of a certain
resolution. Physical damage to the cable, low or noisy signal output
from the source, or TV sensitivities can affect the ability for the
signal work properly. The best solution is to go with the highest
quality cable at the shortest length possible for the system. If incredibly
long lengths are required, there are solutions on the market commonly
called electronic extenders or “baluns” that send the signal over CAT5
or CAT6, or fiber. These solutions have a varying degree of success
and cost.
Data and HDCP: While both Data and HDCP signals are weakened
over distance, Data and HDCP issues can be a problem even in
systems using short cables. A single wire inside the HDMI cable is used
for two-way communications, such as HDCP, format and resolution
synchronization. Much like two-way traffic on a single lane road, the
timing of the data transmissions is very important. Small variations 12
in transmission voltages in the electronics, combined with variations
in wire properties like capacitance, can result in poor timing and
data crashes. While no particular product in the system is defective
(for example you can put the HDMI cable on a different system and
it works fine), the system as a whole fails. The solution is often to
change the system slightly by using a different model HDMI cable, a
different source or TV, or even adding a device into the system like
an HDMI splitter.
In Conclusion:
HDMI is the most advanced connection method available today, but
its complexity can often be intimidating. Hopefully, this educational
module answered some questions. AudioQuest believes the best
marketing is an informed and inspired consumer, and that begins
with you! 13
Summary:
1. With the exception of Ethernet, HDMI cables are described as
High Speed or Standard Speed, which indicates whether a given
HDMI cable at a given length is compatible all of HDMI’s current
features.
2. All AudioQuest HDMI cables up to and including 10 meters are
rated High-Speed with Ethernet, the highest rating possible, and
can therefore transmit 100% of the data required for all of HDMI’s
current features, including Blu-ray 3D.
3. AudioQuest HDMI cables are designed to maximize the audio
and video experience through the best materials, design, and
testing©2011 AudioQuest 2621 White Road, Irvine CA 92614 USA Tel (US): 949.585.0111 Tel (EU): +31.165.54.1404 www.audioquest.com
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post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberDemonz101 View Post

I actually got ahold of a Monster Cable 1 meter HDMI cable and I compared them to a Panasonic JVC Sony cables and i could see the difference with the quality of gaming and fast moving objects especially on a Plasma tv. Plus the cable has lasted me several years now. Thous $5 cable allow alot of interference, which degrades the signal.
If you have a high end system that extra money is well worth it.

No. Just no.

They are simply passing a digital signal. If even one bit fails to pass, then the signal will experience huge problems, such as full signal loss, or "blocking". There is NO WAY the cables themselves are going to improve "quality of gaming and fast moving objects." Not only that. But, to legally be sold in the US and Europe as an "HDMI" cable, it HAS TO PASS a certain specification. HDMI is not just a cable type, it is a standard to which products have to be held to, legally.

http://www.tested.com/news/feature/3329-the-difference-between-cheap-and-expensive-hdmi-cables/
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385346,00.asp
http://hdguru.com/all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same-or-are-they-full-test/4373/
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-entertainment/1292371/expensive-hdmi-cables-make-no-difference-the-absolute-proof/3

....and the list goes on....
 
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post #25 of 38
Read this.

And this.
Quote:
All HDMI cables can handle 1080i. High-speed (Category 2) cables are rated up to 4,096x2,160p24. In other words, even if you buy one of Sony's new 4K projectors for $25,000, your $2.50 high-speed HDMI cable is rated to carry all that resolution.

You'll understand it much better if you read it.
post #26 of 38
You could have found this out quite easily by googling it. Yes, there are crap cables (due to build quality and usually cheaper than 5$). No, there is no reason to spend $100 for a 4' cord. If you're in the market and unsure, just buy from a reviewed source or buy in store (return easily).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberDemonz101 View Post

I actually got ahold of a Monster Cable 1 meter HDMI cable and I compared them to a Panasonic JVC Sony cables and i could see the difference with the quality of gaming and fast moving objects especially on a Plasma tv. Plus the cable has lasted me several years now. Thous $5 cable allow alot of interference, which degrades the signal.
If you have a high end system that extra money is well worth it.
Bahahaha!
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post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-Diamond-2m-Braided-Cable/dp/B003CT2A2M/ref=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
i bought this one and it's awesome, it turned my 720p hdtv to 1080p

QFT. Also adds 10 fps.
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post #28 of 38
I personally feel $5-$10 is the sweet spot for HDMI cables (on sale, maybe $20-$25 if there's no good deals anywhere on the internet sad-smiley-002.gif), and if you must go over then I hope you have a really good reason for it...

I've gotten gold-plated HDMI ones that have protective coating and braiding that could probably withstand a tank driving over it and has lasted for years for $5 on sale from NCIX - I wouldn't be surprised if it outlives me.
Of course i'd never go for one that is a $1 no name brand off some sketchy site or from a dollar store just because I fear cheap materials (can a HDMI cable catch fire? redface.gif).
Edited by Sainesk - 10/8/12 at 5:11pm
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post #29 of 38
I'm pretty sure most\all hdmi cables are the same quality wise since in the end all its sending are 1's and 0's. If you buy analog cables them you should get the best you can get.
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post #30 of 38
Just remember this. Cheap cables will fail when trying to use them for 3D BD players etc. Versus at least a decent quality one will still give you a picture.
Yes its all 1 n 0. But if the resistance is to high, you loose picture etc. Just like Cat5/5e/6 still has a length limit for the same reason.
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