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post #121 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

We shut them off....
Large amounts of P2P traffic easily break "fair usage" policies, and we can terminate their connections. Additionally, you two are aren't understanding a few things....
1) You can encrypt the data, but we can still see where it is going, and then through various tools determine who is at the other end.
2) Even encrypted data isn't 100% safe in today's world, and it is possible to view that data - But that is a conversation for another time.
3) You two act like it is your legal RIGHT to use an ISP. Nope! It is a privilege and you are subject to our usage rules.

1) Large amounts of P2P traffic means they could be playing a MMO- or downloading, movies, games from LEGAL sources... THOUSANDS of companies use P2P to distribute media. P2P is and will remain the best (cost effective, fastest, and generally most secure) way to transfer large amounts of data.

2) Encrypted data is perfectly safe, no company or government is going to spend thousands of hours decrypting data as a "GUESS" to see if it is pirated material. This would be a massive waste of resources.
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post #122 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcguru000 View Post

2) Encrypted data is perfectly safe, no company or government is going to spend thousands of hours decrypting data as a "GUESS" to see if it is pirated material. This would be a massive waste of resources.

Not to mention many pirates are now using a premium service that feeds them billions of encrypted text files and those create the file you want after it's already downloaded. No seeds or P2P needed, will max any connection on the market, etc.

So even if they break the 256-bit encryption that most of those services offer, it's still just billions of text files. Good luck spending thousands trying to figure that out just to give 1 guy a warning. Without proof you downloaded it, they can't do anything against you legally.. and the companies that offer these services are still just storing billions of text files on their servers. Until they revise the law, it's perfectly legal for both parties until the text files create the file you want (which is then only illegal for the user, not the company that supplied text files), and unless they have a warrant and are monitoring your local computer activity, they can't do anything because it's already stored on your hard drive and the ISP will never see it.

They can't stop piracy, they need to stop trying. They need to compete with it. Good products with no DRM/advertisement/unskippable warnings/etc is the way to go. People will buy quality products. When I buy a movie for $20 I expect to put it in my player and the movie to start immediately. I don't expect an inferior version than the internet has.

This brings up something else. All shows are now airing in 720p, but they only release many of them on DVD. So you have to choose between pirated 720p or an inferior 480p DVD. This should NEVER be the case. They are to blame for their poor sales by expecting people to pay for inferior products. They need to stop trying to stop piracy, and start offering headache free products that don't hurt the legit buyers.

Seems like they spend more money trying to stop pirates than to catch pedophiles. rolleyes.gif
Edited by Murlocke - 10/10/12 at 9:40am
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post #123 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

Not to mention many pirates are now using a premium service that feeds them billions of encrypted text files and those create the file you want after it's already downloaded. No seeds or P2P needed, will max any connection on the market, etc.
So even if they break the 256-bit encryption that most of those services offer, it's still just billions of text files. Good luck spending thousands trying to figure that out just to give 1 guy a warning. Without proof you downloaded it, they can't do anything against you legally.. and the companies that offer these services are still just storing billions of text files on their servers. Until they revise the law, it's perfectly legal for both parties until the text files create the file you want (which is then only illegal for the user, not the company that supplied text files), and unless they have a warrant and are monitoring your local computer activity, they can't do anything because it's already stored on your hard drive and the ISP will never see it.
They can't stop piracy, they need to stop trying. They need to compete with it. Good products with no DRM/advertisement/unskippable warnings/etc is the way to go. People will buy quality products. When I buy a movie for $20 I expect to put it in my player and the movie to start immediately. I don't expect an inferior version than the internet has.
This brings up something else. All shows are now airing in 720p, but they only release many of them on DVD. So you have to choose between pirated 720p or an inferior 480p DVD. This should NEVER be the case. They are to blame for their poor sales by expecting people to pay for inferior products. They need to stop trying to stop piracy, and start offering headache free products that don't hurt the legit buyers.
Seems like they spend more money trying to stop pirates than to catch pedophiles. rolleyes.gif

Why can't I rep you, WHY??
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post #124 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

Not to mention many pirates are now using a premium service that feeds them billions of encrypted text files and those create the file you want after it's already downloaded. No seeds or P2P needed, will max any connection on the market, etc.
So even if they break the 256-bit encryption that most of those services offer, it's still just billions of text files. Good luck spending thousands trying to figure that out just to give 1 guy a warning. Without proof you downloaded it, they can't do anything against you legally.. and the companies that offer these services are still just storing billions of text files on their servers. Until they revise the law, it's perfectly legal for both parties until the text files create the file you want (which is then only illegal for the user, not the company that supplied text files), and unless they have a warrant and are monitoring your local computer activity, they can't do anything because it's already stored on your hard drive and the ISP will never see it.
They can't stop piracy, they need to stop trying. They need to compete with it. Good products with no DRM/advertisement/unskippable warnings/etc is the way to go. People will buy quality products. When I buy a movie for $20 I expect to put it in my player and the movie to start immediately. I don't expect an inferior version than the internet has.
This brings up something else. All shows are now airing in 720p, but they only release many of them on DVD. So you have to choose between pirated 720p or an inferior 480p DVD. This should NEVER be the case. They are to blame for their poor sales by expecting people to pay for inferior products. They need to stop trying to stop piracy, and start offering headache free products that don't hurt the legit buyers.
Seems like they spend more money trying to stop pirates than to catch pedophiles. rolleyes.gif

Yes in every way. yes. Thank you.
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post #125 of 411
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Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Why can't I rep you, WHY??

I had so much rep I broke the system. frown.gif

tongue.gif
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post #126 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

TL:TR: These things won't have any impact on the majority of pirates, and these companies are absolutely clueless. By creating this, they will force people to learn about that "other service" which is not trackable, currently legal, and will make pirating even easier to do.

Are we not allowed to publicly discuss this? I mean, I realize most of the script kiddies on the site have no idea what we're talking about but, for those of us that do, is this a taboo topic?

You do realize that for the most part, the other service can be tracked...There's still an ultimate source...You can proxy/vpn all you like but, at the end of the day, you still have a source.

While it is currently legal, I can see it being the next step...

It's also not thousands of dollars to trace them anymore... Algorithms created within the last year could circumvent the locations of the host/recipient of the files in less than a few hours, the issue ultimately is prosecuting an individual based on that evidence because THAT is nearly impossible...They can easily be traced, though.

There's such a minority of people within those services, though...On the other hand, that's where most of your bootlegs come from...So, it'll be interesting to see what happens next...

Hrm.
post #127 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by philhalo66 View Post

i see what you mean but is it worth going to prison for? i don't think so

Worth the risk. An eternity working in a low paid mind numbing job is a form of imprisonment.
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post #128 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Are we not allowed to publicly discuss this? I mean, I realize most of the script kiddies on the site have no idea what we're talking about but, for those of us that do, is this a taboo topic?
You do realize that for the most part, the other service can be tracked...There's still an ultimate source...You can proxy/vpn all you like but, at the end of the day, you still have a source.
While it is currently legal, I can see it being the next step...
It's also not thousands of dollars to trace them anymore... Algorithms created within the last year could circumvent the locations of the host/recipient of the files in less than a few hours, the issue ultimately is prosecuting an individual based on that evidence because THAT is nearly impossible...They can easily be traced, though.
There's such a minority of people within those services, though...On the other hand, that's where most of your bootlegs come from...So, it'll be interesting to see what happens next...
Hrm.

The source is a bunch of text files. Nothing illegal under current law. I believe it would be very hard to write up something for this. "If anything illegal can be created from legal files, those files are also illegal" would be very hard to get approved, if not impossible. Law is very complex and has to be very very precise. It would pretty much be like saying the numbers 1 and 0 are illegal. In the future, I see companies becoming more aware of this file sharing method and trying to do something about it. I think they'll have a very hard time doing so though.

There is currently only a minority on those services because torrents are so easy to use, and are absolutely free. If torrents become unsafe (if this program actually works), then I see a demand for the other services skyrocketing... which will ultimately make pirating very safe (again, under current law). It will then be another decade of them trying to shut down the new sharing method, and by that time there will be another loophole found. tongue.gif

As for OCN, I see people talk about piracy every day and it seems not as taboo as it once was. I personally don't see a problem as long as people aren't sharing links, or saying I downloaded "this". That doesn't mean current staff members feel that same way though, and this thread is really a gray area in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised if the thread gets closed though.
Edited by Murlocke - 10/10/12 at 12:02pm
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post #129 of 411
This is much lighter/weaker punishment and less scary than the letter I received in Oct 2009. They basically said they will sue me, it's just a matter of time (my case was being reviewed). For real that scared the crap out of me. Haven't downloaded anything since. I basically thought I was one of those "one in a million people copyright firms decide to sue:rolleyes:"
Edited by windowszp - 10/10/12 at 11:51am
post #130 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

The source is a bunch of text files. Nothing illegal under current law. I believe it would be very hard to write up something for this. "If anything illegal can be created from legal files, those files are also illegal" would be very hard to get approved, if not impossible. Law is very complex and has to be very very precise. There are thousands of gray areas that have never been considered illegal even though they should be. In the future, I see companies becoming more aware of this file sharing method and trying to do something about it. I think they'll have a very hard time doing so though.
There is currently only a minority on those services because torrents are so easy to use, and are absolutely free. If torrents become very unsafe (if this program actually works), then I see a demand for the other services skyrocketing... which will ultimately make pirating very safe (again, under current law).
As for OCN, I see people talk about piracy every day and it seems not as taboo as it once was. I personally don't see a problem as long as people aren't sharing links, or saying I downloaded "this". I wouldn't be surprised if the thread gets closed though.

I agree, it would be incredibly hard to prove ultimately, how the file was re-created...I can also see torrents being avoided to the point of where collectives buy into the service.

My question wasn't aimed at privacy, it was aimed at what we're discussing and like I said, I doubt the vast majority on the site, know what we're talking about so my question was, are we allowed to give name to the process or, is that considered a taboo?

I'm not going to go as far as naming the services but, is this a subject that's an allowed topic or not? ~ I mainly ask that because right now, it IS legal but, in the near future, that may change so...What's OCN's take on our discussing it in depth?
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