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[Wired] Copyright Scofflaws Beware: ISPs to Begin Monitoring Illicit File Sharing - Page 17

post #161 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McNasty View Post

Everyone knows p2p file sharing is illegal, the fact that the powers at be are implementing ways to stop them doing this is no surprise.
Personally, and forgive the unintended pun here, but i find it a little rich when the rich complain their not getting enough money.
HOWEVER, am I going to risk criminal action against myself just for a copy of a movie or music on the cheap???
No, and you'd have to be on crack to think it is worth that risk.
P2p file sharing has been about for well over a decade and as far as I can tell, the movie industry is still in full swing, as is the music company and games company etc etc, however us the average Joe public are facing unemployment on a daily basis, poor jobs, poor pay and just generally being treated like crap.
Nobody seems to be asking why huge movie stars or "musicians" (and I use that term VERY loosely these days) haven't be subject to the same treatment?
Why haven't they been given a pay cut?
How come when the general public complain their being layed off or having to work a 70 hour week for pitiful pay, we're told to basically deal with it!
However when members of the entertainment industry complain their only being paid 20 million instead of 30, the powers at be move heaven and high water to correct this "injustice"
Take Lady Ga Ga as an example, she gets paid more money than most of us could dream of, yet what does she actually do to deserve this???
She gets music handed to her on a silver plate to "sing", she dresses in clothing that in most cases would get you committed to some kind of metal institute or arrested for indecent exposure.
Yet shes held in more high regard than say, a doctor or a soldier but these people contribute more to society and aren't really appreciated.
So when these megastars start complaining their not getting enough money because people are downloading their work.....i find it a very bitter pill to swallow.
Are p2p down loaders criminals.....no, not really. Cheeky yes, but certainly not criminals.
I for one think we've had a good run, a decade of sticking it too the man in a very VERY miniscule way, but the internet is changing and p2p downloading is dying......maybe not this year or the next but it wont be around forever.
The sooner we realize this, the better.
Otherwise, the p2p down-loaders will be paying fines and getting sent to court for downloading a movie or a few mp3s.....and where do all these fines go???
Straight back into the pocket of the rich, so yet again......the general public are the ones being screwed.
Nice to see things getting back to normal. *ahem

P2P file sharing itself is not illegal. It's the distribution of copyrighted content that is illegal. There are plenty of legitimate things that are spread by P2P, such as Linux distros, game patches, etc. It's just the most notorious (and most newsworthy) use of P2P is for distribution of copyrighted content.
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post #162 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

We shut them off....
Large amounts of P2P traffic easily break "fair usage" policies, and we can terminate their connections. Additionally, you two are aren't understanding a few things....
1) You can encrypt the data, but we can still see where it is going, and then through various tools determine who is at the other end.
2) Even encrypted data isn't 100% safe in today's world, and it is possible to view that data - But that is a conversation for another time.
3) You two act like it is your legal RIGHT to use an ISP. Nope! It is a privilege and you are subject to our usage rules.


Is "fair usage" set in stone within the user agreements? Because it certainly seems unfair that people spend so much money here in the US for internet that it is rather rediculous to be limited. And I would argue that having an ISP is not a privilege, simply because society has dictated that the internet is an integral part of our everyday lives. If every ISP was available to everyone throughout the world so people had a real choice as to who they could turn to for an ISP THEN I would say you have an argument as it being a privilege. Simply because the consumer then has free choice to where he gets his connection from, but since that obviously is not the case we become bottlenecked and forced to decide on a small selection of providers. For example, I only have Comcast and AT&T available in my area, two very big names in the ISP business. In the end the internet has become nothing more than a commodity which is exploited, and this fact is being used to exploit everyone.
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post #163 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

I would LOVE to see the "facts" that back this statement up.....not the cost part, I am aware we get shafted, but the reason for it you listed.
I have seen maps of the fiber infrastructure in this country that aren't public domain, it is scary compared to other developed countries. I am also aware of the cost of fiber at multiple tiers, and how the Tier 1 providers tend to interact.
The single biggest reason for our woes in this country are draconian restrictions in place by our FCC. Hence why I said pirates are "PART" of the reason, they aren't helping! So with that....
I will be waiting on your presentation of "facts" for your statement.

With restrictions I assume you mean the millions ISP's were given to upgrade their infrastructure, to compete with Korea, Japan and Sweden. The ISP's, in their gratefulness saw that money as extra profit and handed it all out as bonusses to managers and shareholders.
Edited by Liranan - 10/11/12 at 1:44am
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post #164 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McNasty View Post

Everyone knows p2p file sharing is illegal, the fact that the powers at be are implementing ways to stop them doing this is no surprise.

You need to tell Blizzard and their lawyers that P2P is illegal because that is how they transfer patches of WoW at least.

P2P will be around for a very long time, you live in a tiny bubble if you think it's dying because a lot of software developers use it to make their wares available to the wider public.

The rest of your arguments are correct but you need to do some more research before you make such wild claims.
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post #165 of 411
P2P will never 'die' and will only keep evolving. P2P in one form or another has been around since we've had a means of recording data which can be transfered between parties. Example... physical writing... whether that is papyrus, tablets, books, etc... the trading of these objects is essentially a P2P transfer using a physical medium.
Now, take that to the digital world... I buy a book, I read it, I finish it... I let a friend borrow it before I shelf it for posterity. Legal, fine, even noble in the sharing of intellectual works that another may not have had access to. I buy an 'ebook', read it, finish it, distribute it to my online friends via a P2P service (pick your flavor), get fined for 'copyright infringement', risk financial ruin and jail time... Lets say that book/ebook were a medical journal, scientific journal, textbook, classical work... something that is actually beneficial to share... in such cases, it is detrimental to society to limit these P2P exchanges.
Replace the above example of a book with 'song', 'program', 'porn', et al... most of which are in the ballpark for pricing ($5-$30 for a book, song, cd, basic program..) and it becomes absolutely beyond reason that P2P should be limited or criminalized when there is no proven harm to the industry related to the medium being shared. Without sharing on a large scale, REAL innovation in society would grind to a halt in a generation or two and we would stagnate.
Can we say that none of the current artists; be they musical, physical art, programming, writing, engineering, et al., have been influenced by some material that they were given access to, but did not own or have even second-hand rights to access? Reading a book at a friends house to influence your own writing endeavors. Reading an architectural journal a friend has access to from a limited source that influences your own architectural style. Listening to a mix tape, burned cd, etc that influenced your own musical style.
P2P is nothing more than the modern terminology given to the digitial distribution of knowledge via a given medium. If 100 people memorize different passage of a copyright protected, limited access book, and proceed to tell that book piecemeal to a friend to inform them what they otherwise would not have known, is to me no different than just one of those with access to lend the book to that friend.
As has already been stated time and again, this is about nothing more than money. Greed pure and simple.
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post #166 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

Constant upgrading of wireless infrastructure is a huge burden in itself (and it only increases as the number of cells increase).

What you are judging your opinion on is the wireless industry in its current state, which is very poor. Many "experts" in the field aren't looking at what could be used and what could be deployed, only what is currently allowed. The difference between what is possible and what is allowed is......beyond vast.

There isn't a need for constant upgrading up wireless infrastructure, especially if proper technology was deployed. There are technologies that are capable of delivering capacities that rival fiber, without the expense of putting down fiber or the potential cost for repair should the line be compromised. Mile for mile, fiber can not compete with wireless in terms of cost! Fiber can cost up to $40,000 per mile depending on how it has to be deployed. I just deployed a wireless link that is pushing over 1Gbps across two miles, for under $5000. The cost to run fiber that same distance was going to be nearly $100,000 because how it would needed to of been deployed. That is even under current restrictions of the industry, and not the "good stuff" that we could deploy if allowed!

Now, I know what you are going to say, "Fiber can go faster than that!", yes, Fiber is amazing in that regard. That is why fiber isn't going to go away, and why I love fiber! That is why this country needs a Fiber/Wireless hybrid system to meet our needs. People keep saying "Well Korea..." or "Well Japan...", guess what? Japan is smaller than California! South Korea is about the size of Illinois! Their systems are HEAVILY subsidized by their governments, both for consumer cost and infrastructure cost and up-keep.

We aren't talking about deploying services to California or Illinois, we are talking about the entire United States of America, a massive landmass. It is impossible to drag fiber everywhere access is needed. Please, lace our larger population centers in fiber, for the love of god we need it. Outside of that, let us use WhiteSpace, there is more than enough room available to meet our needs. Without a Fiber/Wireless hybrid system, this country will fail in providing proper access.

As for the alternate energy tower I mentioned, they have been done, we did a small one ourselves for a little community. It actually worked out far better than we expected, its a champ. The larger ones I have seen are also doing very well. Of course these have their limits, but typically where you would have one the load on the tower will be very low compared to other towers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis158 View Post

What Hajile says is right. If you want to use Wireless to achieve 100% penetration,

We aren't talking about 100% penetration with wireless, but a Fiber/Wireless hybrid. See the above.

EDIT:

To give an idea on what a Fiber/Wireless hybrid system would look like....

City A: Large population center, laced with Fiber, high performing and great speeds.

25 rural miles away you have Town A. Low population , 5,000 people maybe, needs service.

You would push wireless link from City A to Town A, with the right technology it would be several Gigs in capacity. From center of Town A you would broadcast a next generation technology, DOCSIS over the air, and deliver 20+ Mbps, or faster, connections to customers.

This link would require very little upkeep, and the capacity far exceeds what Town A will ever use. Cost? Next to nothing compared to running fiber from City A to Town A and hard wiring each home. Again, keep in mind this is with technology that we currently have, but just aren't allowed to use.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 10/11/12 at 12:00pm
    
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post #167 of 411
I'm looking at this from an IT perspective and am more concerned about the insane abuse of power and privacy that would come with it. It's actually very telling where it's already at, if they're proposing this that means this system is already up and active, they just need a green light to go make it legal. All ISP's already have the capability to monitor any and everything you do on the internet either at home or on a mobile device, and now they're going to intrusively monitor for private peer to peer traffic. So under the guise of 'possible violations of intellectual property rights' they have the keys to the kingdom to spy on or acuse whoever they wish for whatever reason suites them. This will be so ripe for abuse it's not even funny. Consolidation of power and the makings for outright tyranny is so out in the open these days, right in our face!! but it's always sold to the people under a different name, usually promising protection or safety. Kind of like these DHS fusion centers that already conduct themselves outside of the law.
Edited by ]\/[EGADET]-[ - 10/11/12 at 12:15pm
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post #168 of 411
we arent even ot anymore. You came in here claiming that this was good for ISPs because of the cost that things like torrenting burdens their backbone's with. Ive never heard of Chinese ISPs complaining about it, when its an arguable Fact that the Chinese pirate the most. The fact of the matter is that our backbones that public domain runs on are severely lacking to begin with, and these ISP CEOs dont want to get up off their solid gold toilet to do anything about it, so they find things like this to blame. Im pretty sure Legitimate content uses far more bandwidth on our networks than illegitimate. YouTube? Netflix? im sure there are more i could name. streaming sources like these are generally more reliable then most p2p transfers, so they can use more bandwidth.

To give you a picture of what i deal with. i live 5 miles outside a major City, and i CANNOT stream any video without buffering (thats Standard def on utube, i cant do any netflix or much else). If i buy a game on steam, I have to leave my computer on overnight because no one would be able to use the internet if i did it during the day.
The problem isn't there not being cable in the ground. there are 20+ places further away from said major city that have better access than i do. the problem is Greed and lack of competition. I'd like to see how fast Century link decides to upgrade their equipment out here when ALL their customers leave if a service is offered on that Fiber line running straight past my house.
post #169 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis158 View Post

we arent even ot anymore. You came in here claiming that this was good for ISPs because of the cost that things like torrenting burdens their backbone's with. Ive never heard of Chinese ISPs complaining about it, when its an arguable Fact that the Chinese pirate the most. The fact of the matter is that our backbones that public domain runs on are severely lacking to begin with, and these ISP CEOs dont want to get up off their solid gold toilet to do anything about it, so they find things like this to blame. Im pretty sure Legitimate content uses far more bandwidth on our networks than illegitimate. YouTube? Netflix? im sure there are more i could name. streaming sources like these are generally more reliable then most p2p transfers, so they can use more bandwidth.
To give you a picture of what i deal with. i live 5 miles outside a major City, and i CANNOT stream any video without buffering (thats Standard def on utube, i cant do any netflix or much else). If i buy a game on steam, I have to leave my computer on overnight because no one would be able to use the internet if i did it during the day.
The problem isn't there not being cable in the ground. there are 20+ places further away from said major city that have better access than i do. the problem is Greed and lack of competition. I'd like to see how fast Century link decides to upgrade their equipment out here when ALL their customers leave if a service is offered on that Fiber line running straight past my house.

Out of curiosity, who's going to pay the millions to lay F/O outside of a city?

The issue I have with this statement is a simple one...You don't comprehend the cost of industrial F/O or the costs of actually "laying the pipeline" to individuals, like yourself.

Look up how much google spent giving Kansas F/O ~ I'll give you a hint, it cut into their revenue stream by over 50%. That's right, Google's revenue, over 50%.

So, where's the money come from? Is it growing on trees outside or...because I hate to break it to you but, 1m people leaving a cable service doesn't even remotely cover the costs of 5m of fiber.
post #170 of 411
And you know what will happen? Movie sales will go up 5%. Back in the old days before everyone went internet happy people just bought bootlegs. If I really wanted to I could rent a movie from redbox, break the encryption, and burn several copies with better video quality than pirated files, and do it in far less time too. I buy movies because I want to - not because of some false sense of power the MPAA thinks they have. Anytime you doubt the correlation between quality and cd/dvd sales you should check Adele's album figures. People are willing to pay for art - not the mass produced crap you're trying to make us like.

Anyways, if those corrupt bastards are going to crack down on piracy then the government seriously needs to look into price gouging. MS Office and Adobe Photoshop is entirely too expensive. They've barely even been upgraded then past 4 versions so you can't tell me they haven't recouped their expenses by now. All this "because we can" pricing is another major contributing factor to piracy - whether you mindless sheep want to believe it or not.
    
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › [Wired] Copyright Scofflaws Beware: ISPs to Begin Monitoring Illicit File Sharing