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[Wired] Copyright Scofflaws Beware: ISPs to Begin Monitoring Illicit File Sharing - Page 34

post #331 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Technically you can run into MAC address conflicts, but to directly answer why MAC tracking works is.....
They can pair the MAC address to other identifiable information...and the biggest reason of all....
When a court is presented with a MAC that matches the recovered hardware! It is impossible for someone to say "But you can change a MAC" when the hardware recovered contains the illegal material and/or matches the MAC that was identified. You don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to obtain warrants, just have cause.
Again, the MAC not being the ONLY identifiable/traceable part of the equation, I just can't openly discuss the other means that take it to that "beyond reasonable doubt" level. But I can say that it is extremely scary the type of things government and other law enforcement agencies can do....

Huh? what are you CIA and I'm sure whatever you are talking about is public knowledge. Especially if they are used in a court case they automatically become "public knowledge"

Ok then what's to stop someone like that creep porno dude you talked about earlier from Downloading something THEN changing his mac every time (i know he was probably too stupid to try to hide his actions) so when they recovered his nasty computer it wasn't the same MAC ? My point is it's in no way beyond a reasonable doubt.

Heres another hypothetical: What if someone didn't like person A or just wanted to be terrible and installed a virus somehow then downloaded some sort of highly illegal crap and then "anonymously" reported the person?

My point is whenever its a "machine" and you don't actually see the person doing something, there is usually "reasonable doubt"

Example: Someone see's a car hit another car and drive off and all they see is the license plate not the driver. The police might show up at the house wanting to arrest Mom and Dad but it was the 17 year old who did the crime. I actually had the hitting the car and someone got the license plate but did not really "see" the driver part while I was at a restaurant the other day.

In Conclusion since I'm done going back and forth about this, I may not know every single technological aspect.

I do know this however an IP/MAC or whatever the hell else does not = the same weight as say pulling someone's DNA from a crime scene thus giving it whatever insane number of probability that it is them.

I mean geez I could go to my friends house COPY his mac change my mac to his, go to some wifi coffee shop or even use his NET and do whatever I wanted. Does this mean he did it? NO!!!!!!
Edited by HardwareDecoder - 10/18/12 at 5:09pm
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post #332 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwareDecoder View Post

Huh? what are you CIA and I'm sure whatever you are talking about is public knowledge. Especially if they are used in a court case they automatically become "public knowledge"
Ok then what's to stop someone like that creep porno dude you talked about earlier from Downloading something THEN changing his mac every time (i know he was probably too stupid to try to hide his actions) so when they recovered his nasty computer it wasn't the same MAC ? My point is it's in no way beyond a reasonable doubt.
Heres another hypothetical: What if someone didn't like person A or just wanted to be terrible and installed a virus somehow then downloaded some sort of highly illegal crap and then "anonymously" reported the person?
My point is whenever its a "machine" and you don't actually see the person doing something, there is usually "reasonable doubt"
Example: Someone see's a car hit another car and drive off and all they see is the license plate not the driver. The police might show up at the house wanting to arrest Mom and Dad but it was the 17 year old who did the crime. I actually had the hitting the car and someone got the license plate but did not really "see" the driver part while I was at a restaurant the other day.
In Conclusion since I'm done going back and forth about this, I may not know every single technological aspect.
I do know this however an IP/MAC or whatever the hell else does not = the same weight as say pulling someone's DNA from a crime scene thus giving it whatever insane number of probability that it is them.
I mean geez I could go to my friends house COPY his mac change my mac to his, go to some wifi coffee shop or even use his NET and do whatever I wanted. Does this mean he did it? NO!!!!!!

Not CIA, and no, the tools used to catch large enough targets aren't public knowledge. The fact that they work and are used, obviously is, but the tools themselves and how they work don't have to be declared. Even if they did, public knowledge isn't equal to common knowledge, and certain things should be kept out.

As for the MAC issue....

You can change the MAC address that an adapter presents, but you can't actually change the hard coded MAC address itself. So even if you configure the MAC to spew out something else, proper tools will simply bypass that and pull the actual unchangeable, hard coded, MAC. Again, this just being one of several ways to identify beyond a reason of a doubt what system is being used.

EDIT:

I will also add that the number of different types "samples" on a keyboard that can have DNA pulled, is...well....extensive. Hair, skin, body fluids....they are all present. Again, being able to place the person, without any reasonable doubt (again) in front of the computer.

Oh and your example of the car accident, that is just where good old fashion detective work comes in. I can say without a doubt, and as a parent, that if my child were to perform a hit and run and police came to my door. My child would have more to worry about than the police.
Edited by PostalTwinkie - 10/18/12 at 7:53pm
    
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post #333 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Not CIA, and no, the tools used to catch large enough targets aren't public knowledge. The fact that they work and are used, obviously is, but the tools themselves and how they work don't have to be declared. Even if they did, public knowledge isn't equal to common knowledge, and certain things should be kept out.
As for the MAC issue....
You can change the MAC address that an adapter presents, but you can't actually change the hard coded MAC address itself. So even if you configure the MAC to spew out something else, proper tools will simply bypass that and pull the actual unchangeable, hard coded, MAC. Again, this just being one of several ways to identify beyond a reason of a doubt what system is being used.
EDIT:
I will also add that the number of different types "samples" on a keyboard that can have DNA pulled, is...well....extensive. Hair, skin, body fluids....they are all present. Again, being able to place the person, without any reasonable doubt (again) in front of the computer.
Oh and your example of the car accident, that is just where good old fashion detective work comes in. I can say without a doubt, and as a parent, that if my child were to perform a hit and run and police came to my door. My child would have more to worry about than the police.

can change hard coded ones too bro
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post #334 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

.../snip, public knowledge isn't equal to common knowledge, and certain things should be kept out.
.../snip

I disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwareDecoder View Post

can change hard coded ones too bro

no, you can't. not without changing the LAN/WLAN adapter.
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post #335 of 411
Oh well then if anyone wants to do anything highly illegal i'd say buy a $10 NIC and throw it away when you are done haha
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post #336 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwareDecoder View Post

Oh well then if anyone wants to do anything highly illegal i'd say buy a $10 NIC and throw it away when you are done haha

tongue.gif
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post #337 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwareDecoder View Post

can change hard coded ones too bro

No, you can't, and frankly based off this statement and this one....
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardwareDecoder View Post

...I may not know every single technological aspect...

You have very little idea what you are talking about, which is perfectly fine, as very few people do. Mostly because very few people get involved with systems to the level we are trying to discuss. Even fewer so have actually seen the tools I am talking about.

Oh, and simply changing your NIC won't do you a bit of good. Again, you are focusing on one of many aspects of how people are identified, not to mention any given system has more than one unique MAC address.
    
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post #338 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

No, you can't, and frankly based off this statement and this one....
You have very little idea what you are talking about, which is perfectly fine, as very few people do. Mostly because very few people get involved with systems to the level we are trying to discuss. Even fewer so have actually seen the tools I am talking about.
Oh, and simply changing your NIC won't do you a bit of good. Again, you are focusing on one of many aspects of how people are identified, not to mention any given system has more than one unique MAC address.

As an Admin that's had to actually do this, work with an ISP and the "authorities"...Postal is beyond correct.

Changing your MAC does nothing because both connections from your place on the line are actually recorded...This seems to be something none of you people understand so, I'll explain it in "stupid".

If you use a proxy, where are you connected FROM? If you change your MAC, where are you connected FROM? If you change your MAC and use a proxy or a VPS, where are you connected FROM?

You people seem to forget that regardless of what you change, there's a HOST, there's always a host, you have to connect from somewhere, just like Neo had to in the Matrix.

Every single time you "jack up" there's a record...Even if you're WAP'ing from Starbucks.

The ONLY issue with this bill what-so-ever is wireless IP's being guilty of crimes until proven so...What's that mean? They can't point at you and say your guilty. That doesn't stop them from calling the ISP, monitoring your connection and then PROVING YOU GUILTY...It only stops them from pointing a finger at YOU without proof.

It also doesn't matter if you call it pirating or stealing...It's illegal to the authorities that can actually arrest you.

I honestly, can't believe that this has to be explained over OCN...How do you think you connect to the internet? Magic?
Edited by Masked - 10/19/12 at 7:53am
post #339 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

No, you can't, and frankly based off this statement and this one....
You have very little idea what you are talking about, which is perfectly fine, as very few people do. Mostly because very few people get involved with systems to the level we are trying to discuss. Even fewer so have actually seen the tools I am talking about.
Oh, and simply changing your NIC won't do you a bit of good. Again, you are focusing on one of many aspects of how people are identified, not to mention any given system has more than one unique MAC address.

Again, it comes down to the scale and reasoning behind attempting to 'identify' people. At the very best, even if you narrow it down to the very system used, at best you get the location, but the person. Person lives alone... they have friends. Maybe remote access used the PC to perform all the actions... that would still point everything to that PC. Reasonable doubt is inherently present as there is no physical proof that THAT specific person did the downloading. They may own the PC, so you can attempt a liable or complicity claim, but outright charges are not reasonable.

So far, all you seem to keep doing it saying, 'We got you, you just don't know it yet...". Why are you looking at me? If you're looking at me... why haven't you done anything if you're so sure i'm doing something illegal. If all these super-awesome-investigative-wonder tools are available to 'the Man' and his cronies and the ISPs... obviously they're of no practical use against the population at large who are ALL already suspect simply by owning a PC with internet access. For that end, even owning a web-enabled phone makes you suspicious.

It doesn't matter what you have if you can't make practical use of it. We have nukes. We could end all this Middle East conflict overnight. 1 Billion followers in those countries... gone.. 6 billion in the rest of the world survive. We're fine. We DON'T do that as it's simply not practical and carrying out what's necessary to reach your goals would only make things exponentially worse.

Spare us your fear mongring, we got it from your first posts that the ISPs are to be believed to be all powerful and can do whatever they want. Personal property and privacy rights be damned. After all, we're on 'your network' so you can look at everything we do and perhaps even into our computers, without permission. Again, I'm glad I'm not under your ISP. My ISP isn't perfect, but I've had no privacy breaches or notices from having visited TPB or other torrent sites to get my legal material. Also, no notices of 'excessive' bandwidth usage as compared to the majority of my neighbors or local population. The alternative being Time Warner... I'll stick with who I'm with.
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post #340 of 411
guess I don't really know, because I never needed to know. Since i got 0 to hide. But I know you can stay "anonymous" on the internet if you want to badly enough. Look at the hackers group "anonymous"
Edited by HardwareDecoder - 10/19/12 at 8:02am
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