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post #101 of 128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

^ Productivity is hard to quantify. How did it make you any more productive over Windows 7? What did Metro do that increase your work performance?

By keeping out of my way the simple stuff (email, music, checking the weather etc) and having in my taskbar the serious stuff when I'm working like my programming IDEs, my video editing software etc.

In other words I have the simple stuff completely separated from the serious stuff and I really like this. Also I really like not cluttering my taskbar with programs. I like how neat I can have everything in categories in the start screen. Yes I know that I can do that with software like rainmeter and I have used rainmeter heavily but I just prefer this simplistic way.

Also I took my time to learn shortcuts and also assign stuff that I need in my macro keys (12 of them). It really is a shortcut oriented OS and I really prefer that because I really like shortcuts.

Furthermore the new start menu in general really gave me a boost in searching and managing my applications.

Oh and not to forget that I love the removal of the start button, as a multitasker it was an extra not used space in my taskbar and I have all of its functionality either but right clicking in the bottom left corner, or by going to the new start menu, or by using shortcuts.

In general the biggest plus for me was separating the simple from the complex stuff and the organizing I can do.
post #102 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

why should we listen to their opinion, when you don't even really explain what it is? it could be related to stuff that it entirely irrelevant to how the average person use their computer, like integration with server software of something and isn't necessarily related to the interface at all even. or just the fact that they have to teach people how to use a different system.
i wouldn't say strictly that metro is more efficient, more that keyboard shortcuts and commands are just much more efficient than using a mouse for everything. that's more or less objective fact, because as i said before, it means you don't have to move a mouse and click through windows. this also true for gestures in many instances (that they are more efficient than using the mouse interface).
as far as the metro interface goes, having a full screen interface is not in itself more efficient. but if you are primarily using keyboard commands, you might as well get rid of the elements of the mouse interface and give yourself more screen space.
as far as all of this leading to more productivity, yeah it's hard to objectively say it will. just because something is more efficient doesn't mean it will necessarily lead to more productivity. people might use it to switch back forth between facebook more often because they can do it more quickly. there are social and cultural factors that affect productivity

Yeah, aren't most of those keyboard shortcuts exactly the same in Windows 7 and other versions, bar the few that were added for the specific Win 8 stuff?

For something to be more efficient it has to be better across the board. When a lot of people vehemently hate this "new way" of doing things it kind of speaks for it.
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post #103 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheByt3 View Post

By keeping out of my way the simple stuff (email, music, checking the weather etc) and having in my taskbar the serious stuff when I'm working like my programming IDEs, my video editing software etc.
In other words I have the simple stuff completely separated from the serious stuff and I really like this. Also I really like not cluttering my taskbar with programs. I like how neat I can have everything in categories in the start screen. Yes I know that I can do that with software like rainmeter and I have used rainmeter heavily but I just prefer this simplistic way.
Also I took my time to learn shortcuts and also assign stuff that I need in my macro keys (12 of them). It really is a shortcut oriented OS and I really prefer that because I really like shortcuts.
Furthermore the new start menu in general really gave me a boost in searching and managing my applications.
Oh and not to forget that I love the removal of the start button, as a multitasker it was an extra not used space in my taskbar and I have all of its functionality either but right clicking in the bottom left corner, or by going to the new start menu, or by using shortcuts.
In general the biggest plus for me was separating the simple from the complex stuff and the organizing I can do.

Like I said, a lot fo the shortcuts are in Windows 7 too.

I personally use my taskbar a lot. I have Winamp, Visual Studio, Eclipse, Chrome, Thunderbird, WinMerge, Filezilla and Notepad++ on there. That's ALL the apps I use really. I have a 1080 27" screen so I still have room left for other stuff should I need it, but that's basically it. I don't need to personally save taskbar space.

All I want and have ever wanted is the option to have the start menu back and not see Metro. Other than Metro, Win8 is a solid OS and I could really sink my teeth into it... but every time I wanted to do something it was there all the time, getting in my way and pissing me off. thus, I uninstalled. I keep meaning to give ClassicShell a proper attempt but I've been that put off by Windows 8 I just don't want to anymore.


Anyway, not to be attacking you guys for LIKING it, it's just that I'm tired of seeing the "haven't tried it" "haven't bothered to learn the shortcuts" and the rest of the arguments given against people don't like it. As though everyone who doesn't like it is lazy or being a sheeple.
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post #104 of 128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Like I said, a lot fo the shortcuts are in Windows 7 too.
I personally use my taskbar a lot. I have Winamp, Visual Studio, Eclipse, Chrome, Thunderbird, WinMerge, Filezilla and Notepad++ on there. That's ALL the apps I use really. I have a 1080 27" screen so I still have room left for other stuff should I need it, but that's basically it. I don't need to personally save taskbar space.
All I want and have ever wanted is the option to have the start menu back and not see Metro. Other than Metro, Win8 is a solid OS and I could really sink my teeth into it... but every time I wanted to do something it was there all the time, getting in my way and pissing me off. thus, I uninstalled. I keep meaning to give ClassicShell a proper attempt but I've been that put off by Windows 8 I just don't want to anymore.
Anyway, not to be attacking you guys for LIKING it, it's just that I'm tired of seeing the "haven't tried it" "haven't bothered to learn the shortcuts" and the rest of the arguments given against people don't like it. As though everyone who doesn't like it is lazy or being a sheeple.

No I definitely do not believe that about anyone, I can actually clearly see that a lot of people will not like this OS at all and I personally thought I'd hate it but because of my character (being a perfectionist) I wanted to get rid of all the clutter in my taskbar. I never ever use desktop shortcuts, for some reason I always hated how unorganized it made my life so I firstly moved to software like rainmeter and rocketdock which made my life easier but to achieve that easiness I had to try a lot (programming in rainmeter etc) so I moved to the taskbar which I filled up too quickly (I really only put there my essential programs) with my most used software and then I used the start menu for searching my least used software (which I REALLY hated doing).

Then Windows 8 came along where I got rid of almost everything from the taskbar (except File Explorer, MSN, task manager and Calculator) and put everything (including the things I used to search in the start menu) in categories in the new Start Screen.

That's the basic reason why I really liked Windows 8.

As for people bashing Windows 8 about the new UI I completely understand that and it's a really reasonable thing to do. Since the change is so big not everyone will like it but I personally do like it.

For the shortcuts I know that most of them are used in Windows 7 but one button that I have never used in my life and I have been using it now is the Start keyboard button. They gave some shortcuts more reason to use them and that's why I like them.
post #105 of 128
A huge improvement in win8 is its search functionality. You can now search what application you want to run right after the welcome screen without clicking start button or winkey + F. It also unified in-app search by providing the search button on the charm bar.
post #106 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

^ Productivity is hard to quantify. How did it make you any more productive over Windows 7? What did Metro do that increase your work performance?

Everything is relative and subjective.

My line of work has me using test instruments to take readings and creating reports based on those readings at the same time on a laptop, then emailing those reports when I'm done.

In Windows 7, I'd have to:

1) Create the report

2) Export to PDF (wait for PDF program to open, load document etc).

3) Open Internet browser. Wait for loading.

4) Navigate to email provider website. Wait for loading (on mobile internet connection).

5) Send email.


In Windows 8, I now:

1) Create the report

2) Export to PDF, which opens up in the already running, pre installed "Reader" app that always stays open in the background, yet is never seen (aka not taking up space in my task bar due to it being a metro app) unless I want to use it.

3) Press start, type "m", press enter to open the already running (live tile) mail app that constantly monitors multiple mail accounts and gives me notifications when I get new mail. Also does not take up room on my taskbar despite it being in constant use.

4) Send mail.

Differences between the way I use W7 and W8 in the steps above may not seem like a lot, but its much more streamlined in practice, especially with the light weight, persistent apps that require no loading times. That's just one way I cut time out of a job. The comparatively super speedy boot up/standby recovery on a 5+ year old machine compared to how long it used to take is also very convenient.

When the surface tablets or similar arrive, I'll no longer need to have a laptop in one place and have to keep going back there to either enter or check on data on the program I use. I can put a W8 tab in a sling/case and carry it around with me.

The ability to open and play my favourite radio stations in a metro app (that again does not clutter my desktop or taskbar) with no more than two clicks is also helpful.

Then there's the Sky Drive app that I use to store all the reports I create so I can quickly access them from my phone/laptop/main rig whenever I need to.

That's why people making blanket statements about W8s lack of any productivity benefit as a whole come across as ignorant as they only consider what they feel important and nothing else, even if there are things that others find beneficial.

People may indeed find that W7 caters to their productivity needs better, but I don't see how that makes it impossible for W8 to do the same for somebody else.
Edited by GrizzleBoy - 10/11/12 at 9:45am
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post #107 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Like I said, a lot fo the shortcuts are in Windows 7 too.
I personally use my taskbar a lot. I have Winamp, Visual Studio, Eclipse, Chrome, Thunderbird, WinMerge, Filezilla and Notepad++ on there. That's ALL the apps I use really. I have a 1080 27" screen so I still have room left for other stuff should I need it, but that's basically it. I don't need to personally save taskbar space.
All I want and have ever wanted is the option to have the start menu back and not see Metro. Other than Metro, Win8 is a solid OS and I could really sink my teeth into it... but every time I wanted to do something it was there all the time, getting in my way and pissing me off. thus, I uninstalled. I keep meaning to give ClassicShell a proper attempt but I've been that put off by Windows 8 I just don't want to anymore.
Anyway, not to be attacking you guys for LIKING it, it's just that I'm tired of seeing the "haven't tried it" "haven't bothered to learn the shortcuts" and the rest of the arguments given against people don't like it. As though everyone who doesn't like it is lazy or being a sheeple.

my friend who is an IT pro, loves the new fullscreen os's. because he basically only uses command line and hotkeys anyway, he likes that they are getting rid of what is to him pointless clutter. the problem with windows is that they have never emphasized hotkeys. it's always been a secondary, hidden feature for those "in the know."

i haven't used windows 8, i am basing this off my experience of osx fullscreen function and hotkeys. but perhaps that is unfair, because osx has always made hotkeys a more transparent, obvious option. which is helped by the fact that they have a unified, simplified interface. so while hotkeys may not ever be as obvious a choice in windows, it doesn't make them any less effective.

i don't get why people have issues with the startscreen either. fullscreen basically means you can see more information at once, rather than sifting through layers of menus which takes longer and is less efficient. the rule of efficient ui design is "show as much info as possible in each menu and have as few menus as possible." it's not like you can really multitask while using the current start screen either.

i know you said you hate when people ask you if "you bothered to learn the shortcuts." but have you? because i get tired of people saying w8 is "noob" or something when they aren't even using w7 efficiently. i think you'll find they while they take a bit of time to memorize, however, they will save you time in w7 as well. and if you combine the added speed of gestures with the shortcuts you know, you will actually find w8 more efficient.
Edited by perfectblade - 10/11/12 at 10:06am
post #108 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzleBoy View Post

Everything is relative and subjective.
My line of work has me using test instruments to take readings and creating reports based on those readings at the same time on a laptop, then emailing those reports when I'm done.
In Windows 7, I'd have to:
1) Create the report
2) Export to PDF (wait for PDF program to open, load document etc).
3) Open Internet browser. Wait for loading.
4) Navigate to email provider website. Wait for loading (on mobile internet connection).
5) Send email.
In Windows 8, I now:
1) Create the report
2) Export to PDF, which opens up in the already running, pre installed "Reader" app that always stays open in the background, yet is never seen (aka not taking up space in my task bar due to it being a metro app) unless I want to use it.
3) Press start, type "m", press enter to open the already running (live tile) mail app that constantly monitors multiple mail accounts and gives me notifications when I get new mail. Also does not take up room on my taskbar despite it being in constant use.
4) Send mail.
Differences between the way I use W7 and W8 in the steps above may not seem like a lot, but its much more streamlined in practice, especially with the light weight, persistent apps that require no loading times. That's just one way I cut time out of a job. The comparatively super speedy boot up/standby recovery on a 5+ year old machine compared to how long it used to take is also very convenient.
When the surface tablets or similar arrive, I'll no longer need to have a laptop in one place and have to keep going back there to either enter or check on data on the program I use. I can put a W8 tab in a sling/case and carry it around with me.
The ability to open and play my favourite radio stations in a metro app (that again does not clutter my desktop or taskbar) with no more than two clicks is also helpful.
Then there's the Sky Drive app that I use to store all the reports I create so I can quickly access them from my phone/laptop/main rig whenever I need to.
That's why people making blanket statements about W8s lack of any productivity benefit as a whole come across as ignorant as they only consider what they feel important and nothing else, even if there are things that others find beneficial.
People may indeed find that W7 caters to their productivity needs better, but I don't see how that makes it impossible for W8 to do the same for somebody else.

And you couldn't use an mail app on Windows 7? wth.gif
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post #109 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

my friend who is an IT pro, loves the new fullscreen os's. because he basically only uses command line and hotkeys anyway, he likes that they are getting rid of what is to him pointless clutter. the problem with windows is that they have never emphasized hotkeys. it's always been a secondary, hidden feature for those "in the know."
i haven't used windows 8, i am basing this off my experience of osx fullscreen function and hotkeys. but perhaps that is unfair, because osx has always made hotkeys a more transparent, obvious option. which is helped by the fact that they have a unified, simplified interface. so while hotkeys may not ever be as obvious a choice in windows, it doesn't make them any less effective.
i don't get why people have issues with the startscreen either. fullscreen basically means you can see more information at once, rather than sifting through layers of menus which takes longer and is less efficient. the rule of efficient ui design is "show as much info as possible in each menu and have as few menus as possible." it's not like you can really multitask while using the current start screen either.
i know you said you hate when people ask you if "you bothered to learn the shortcuts." but have you? because i get tired of people saying w8 is "noob" or something when they aren't even using w7 efficiently. i think you'll find they while they take a bit of time to memorize, however, they will save you time in w7 as well. and if you combine the added speed of gestures with the shortcuts you know, you will actually find w8 more efficient.

Since I know most of the shortcuts are from Windows7... Yes, I've learned them. I just don't see why I should ahve to use them to replace a previous functionality that is gone. I.E, being in the desktop environment all the time.
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post #110 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Since I know most of the shortcuts are from Windows7... Yes, I've learned them. I just don't see why I should ahve to use them to replace a previous functionality that is gone. I.E, being in the desktop environment all the time.

Pretty much all of the Windows 7 shortcuts are still in Windows 8, and you don't have to use Metro. The only time I use it is when I log on.
    
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