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Looking for THE mouse.

post #1 of 119
Thread Starter 
Allright ladies and gentlemen.

It is now my turn to make a thread which makes the semi-intelligent mind and above consider this thread stupid and furthermore ignorant and probably a thread started without the OP having read the "Looking for mouse? read this first..."

But for a matter of fact, I might be one of the "WHAT MOUSE SHOULDZ I BUYZ?!?!?!" who has read the most into mice, technology and shape and most of all: how to determine my preferences. I am also asking for help so I dont have to buy 5-6 mice and do individual testing and waste money.

USELESS BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

Games I play:

I have played competetive Counter-strike 1.6 for about 6 months (Played the game for 3-4 years) and then 6-months at approximately professional level. Without mentioning any notable titles or competitions won or attended, i just want to say that I am very, frankly speaking, freakish about my equipment and its functionality. When I played this game I have played mostly with laser mice, (Roccat Kone, Steelseries Xai and Steelseries Sernsei), and as a user of Mouse-acceleration and user of MouDrV acceleration, the positive and negative acceleration of laser mice was never a concern to me and since these mice delivered a better shape for me I wasnt thinking about optical kontra laser sensor technology.

HOWEVER

Since counter-strike 1.6 has died about 6 months ago, I started playing another game with goals of going solo- therefore I started playing starcraft 2.

In Starcraft 2 however, acceleration is NO option when it comes to consistent high-level performance. I have played the game for about 4 months now and I am top 8 masters on EU ladder. Speaking of a experienced acceleration user, here are my thoughts:

- Acceleration in RTS is bad since you do much more than you do in FPS; rely on fast-paced movements on 2 different levels: The macroscopic and the Microscopic. Macroscopic speed in SC2 is what I refer to when you constantly move the mouse around to select different things and move as fast as possible. This is going from a building to a unit to the minimap ETC - it is about getting the mouse to certain areas. The Microscopic speed is where acceleration becomes a problem for you. In SC2 you dont need pixel-precision as you do in FPS. In FPS you can play with acceleration since you make a macroscocpic speeds to do 180 degrees turns and try to shoot the head, but since macroscropic speeds with high-dpis can result inaccurcay and macroscopic speeds with low-dpis can result slow 180 turns, acceleration can be a compromise for that solution.

In RTS games you are constantly relying on macroscopic speed when moving the most despite what DPI you use. The faster you do things, the better. You cant play with acceleration and expect to do things "faster" since you rely on macrscopic and micoscopic speeds on all CPI/DPI levels, and if those constantly change as a cauuse of acceleration (Im talking about TRUE hardware/software acceleration and not windows-acceleration) youre going to factor Microscopic and Macroscopic cpis into infinite levels on control, resulting that your movements are no longer faster than you wish it to be - tehrefore acceleartion in RTS is a bad thing.

So to the point:

Ive now started playing SC2 for 4 months as said and Im now switching from my current mouse. Steelseries sensei to a mouse that fits my non-acceleration mousetracking the best. After constantly watching pro-players Ive realised how their mice-tracking compared to my sensor (at about 2000 DPI with 6/11 windows-sens and 1920 1080 windows screen) seem to make much more precise playing and Im convienced it is because they use an optical mouse instead of me using laser - however it is not for all programers I see that and it is not neccessarily important to be fast to be good at SC2, I just say that this is the case for me - I want to be as fast as possible.

- Mouse Preferences

- Optical mouse. I use a customized claw/palm grib with 1 finger on button1, 1 finger on scroll and 1 finger on button2. I dont really care about mouse shape or size as long as I- after testing- can see that I play at a given level or not.

- I need an optical sensor that can track 1600 DPI or above non-interpolated, no acceleration, no hardware acceleration, no jittery and as few problems as possible.

- The lighter the mouse the better, and the smaller the mouse, the better. However I can tend to prefer it has at least 1 or 2 extra m-buttons (IE buttons.) But then again, it is not going to be alpha omega for my choice. i just need a mouse where I can perform as good and fast as possible.

- The feel/shape/surface of the mouse is also irrelevant, as long as it doesnt cause any problems.

- My hand is "mid-size" and mice bigger than abyssus but smaller than deathadder (old version) fits in my hand the best, but its only a VERY slight feeling-difference. I can totally play with deathadder and totally play with abyssus too.

- I dont care about Lift Off Distance. As long as tracking while mouse is maintaining contact with mousepad I want AS BEST possible tracking. My philosphy is basically taht I want a mouse where I can have as high-dpi as possible and still maintain pixel-precise accuracy. The way I define this is if I can move the mouse to make a square 1-by-1 pixel almost without failing. If the mouse starts skipping or jumping too frequently it is prbobably not what I want.

- I do not care about the cord.

- I want Mousebutton 1 and 2 to be as spammable and clickable as possible - Ive actually had experience with razer deathadder (Old version) where the buttons might be big with omron-switches but the "flexibility" of the button itself allows finger-force to spam the button almost as frequently as with palm-force (if you know what I mean)

For example:

Finger force is used to spam buttons when the hand is EXCLUSIVELY using the fingers as the trigger-machine. This is present when you use claw or palm gribs.

With finger-gribs, you can use the palm sometimes to make a shaking-trigger to the mousebutton and therefore press the button significantly faster than you can with palm/claw cribs. This is not super relevant but it is a demental perference for me.





So far Ive played with Razer Taipan and Sensei, and so far my experience is that Razer Taipan delivers SLIGHTLY better accuracy (Probabyl just because i control it beter.) I have 2000 dpi on that mouse and I can make a 1-by-1 pixel square and fail only every 4th or 5th attempt with a 1 or 2 pixel inaccuracy.


- Mice im thinking about so far and why:

I have had trouble finding exact tracking differences between Avago S3888 and Abago A3090, but I assume both sensors are "perfect sensors" in a gaming-mouse vocalaboray, but I guess some high-quality minds can help me on the matter.

Basically I am looking for a mouse with THE BEST and MOST RELIABLE and with MOST DPI sensor available.


Razer Deathadder 3.5g


The main reason im considering this mouse is basically how popular it is. It appears to me that most people find this mouse the best. The only minus with this mouse is the shape, sins its mainly designed for palm-grips with little and ringfinger resting on the ergnomic side of teh mopuse, however, I only use the little finger for my grib. I can 100% still play with this mouse and i dont want you to exclude this suggestion if u sincerely think its best.
The second reason is because of the button-flexibility that allows spamming, however, since razer-build quiality is not near precise the button-feel can vary but ive tried a couple of deathadders time to time.

Zowie AM

This mouse is in my thoughts because of its very nice MSI 1.1 shape and it has 4 total side-buttons (I almost require at least 2), but I am not sure if this mouse supports better tracking than Deathadder does. However if I should choose out of shape, this would win over the deathadder. Zowie also seem very strick that the DPI is non-interpolated and therefore they must have made the mouse both in soft- and hardware to deliver at its best. (So has razer tbh.)

Roccat Savu


Beside it is "the new king of mice" and has an exact same sensor as zowie AM but magically delivers "4000 dpi without interpolation" and 16.8 million colors etc.etc this mouse might also be in my thoughts because of its shape, And tbh; i might find it slightly better looking that zowie AM given my hand is SLIGHTLY wider than it is longer compared to "standard handssize comparison".

Logitech G400

This mouse is also on the list because of popularity, but Im not sure if I can rely on it because it has malfunctioning tracking to 800 DPI and above. Therefore the CPI I need, which is 1500+, would be interpolated and inaccurate. However if any einsteins to clear things for me, this mouse might stay on the list, but so far I dont want it. The shape of this mouse is no doubt my favourite, especially since the buttons seem so slim and easy-to-press, but I still have a feeling that deathadders flexibility in button 1 and 2 is best suiting for me.

CM Storm Recon

This mouse compared to Savu:
- Same sensor
- A bit better mousebuttons on the side
- A tiny bit better form

"Precise Tracking

Thanks to the best Optical Sensor on the Market (Avago 3090) The CM Storm Recon tracks movements with the highest optical sensitivity on the market. Users can fine tune the sensitivity and define up to 4 DPI Levels for each Profile."

Can I rely on this statement from the website? It is the same roccat says about their sensor but, how can avagao 3090 be 4000 dpi on this mouse and 2300 on Zowie AM? Is it because of custom lens? Does CM Storm and roccat savu ahve inaccuracte / interpolated CPI values?

Abyssus and EC1 Evo is also on my list but I have "semi-outcasted" them since I would alwayus choose zowie AM over EC1 evo and Deathadder over abyssus.

So, after this fine fairy tale, please feel free to share your handsomeness with my handsomeness. And to those interested, this is my priority so far:

1. Razer Abyssus
2. Roccat savu / CM storm spawn / CM storm recon
3. Razer Abyssus
5. Logitech g400
5. Deathadder 3.5g

If you have any other mice for suggestion, feel free. I would prefer not to hear about laser mice. Thank you

EDIT:

I have tried razer abyssus and it disappointed me.

My new list would be:

1. Razer Deathadder 3.5g
2. Roccat Savu
3. Zowie AM
4. Logitech g400

Read post #66 for reasons why.
Edited by Theobeo - 10/13/12 at 7:05am
post #2 of 119
Hmm.. after reading the title, I was going to say when I lose my mouse I start looking on the mouse pad.

I have had good experiences with Roccat customer service, but that is with a kone +. If you do go with the death adder I recomend the one without the high gloss sides. They are truly, and I mean truly, a feature that I cannot overcome to use what I consider to be a good mouse.
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post #3 of 119
Thread Starter 
My mousepad is the best I can get ATM, no problems there.

I might find plastic my favourite surface. (Rubberized?) Not sure. I dont think I like glossy surfaces either.
post #4 of 119
Yea, if you go death adder I believe the black edition has rubberized sides, and is worth the extra $$$ imo.
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post #5 of 119
mabay aswell look into the cm storm recon, its also using the avago 3090 has a good scroll wheel and well placed side buttons.
I would say its as good as the roccat savu only with better placed sidebuttons. Zowie Am has got huano switches and not omron.
So I would recommend you that one. "Razers Deathadder" some people like it some people dont the shape is good for you or it isnt.
G400 is a good mouse but aswell shape wise you have to get used to it because of the lip at the front left side of the mouse.
I aswell read that you prefer lighter mice. What about the cm storm spawn then its light. Only is more based towards a clawgrip.
This is btw not a commercial for CM storm products haha, but just a headsupp. So that you take them with into youre decision.
post #6 of 119
Thread Starter 
@ Zowie AM

I am not sure if the huano siwtrhces on the zowie AM is bad.

I have a tough time relating to your opinions since you dont differ mouse tracking nor performance, and talking about roccay savu as good as CM storm is also tough for me to rely on, since i dont even know if roccat savu is good.

Anyways,


I will update and put CM on my list

Does CM storm Recon / ROccat savu have inaccurate / interpolated CPi values?
Edited by Theobeo - 10/10/12 at 10:25am
post #7 of 119
I currently use the R.A.T. 7 for all my PC gaming needs. It is a very nice mouse, has all the weights you need, several grips included depending on the type of surface you like your hand to be on. A ton of buttons, even a FPS button that when pressed brings your sensitivity down by 50% for people who like that when sniping. Another great feature is the ability to shorten or lengthen as much as you want depending on the size of your hand. Has 2 thumb and 2 pinky finger rests you can attach to the mouse to reduce any fingers that drag. I also forgot yo mention you can also control the width of the mouse to a certain degree.

They also have a wireless version the R.A.T. 9, comes with 2 rechargeable batteries that last for roughly 9 hours of continuous use per charge.
post #8 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theobeo View Post

@ Zowie AM
I am not sure if the huano siwtrhces on the zowie AM is bad.
I have a tough time relating to your opinions since you dont differ mouse tracking nor performance, and talking about roccay savu as good as CM storm is also tough for me to rely on, since i dont even know if roccat savu is good.
Anyways,
I will update and put CM on my list

I found this post of DeMS mabay this will help you aswell a bit for taking a decision

S3688 - Sensor present in DeathAdder 3G tracked up to 1800CPI
S3888 - Sensor present in DeathAdder 3.5G, DA:BE and Abyssus, tracks up to 3500CPI
A3090 - Sensor present in Zowie AM, CM Storm Spawn, Zowie ECx eVo, Roccat Savu...
S3095 - Sensor present in G400, tracks up to 3600CPI

However, the differences don't stop here, as the A3090 "package" implementation has been modded many times :
S3095 is "more a less" a A3090 sensor with a custom lens and illumination package that make it jitter at high CPI.
Zowie AM and ECx eVo both have a custom Kingsys lens, so it has lower LOD, also lower max tracking speed and custom CPI steps.
CM Storm Spawn (afaik) takes the default package from Avago on the A3090, with the latest SROM and good firmware, but the sensor is rotated 90º.
Roccat Savu takes the default lens but it couples the sensor with an infrared light and it also gets rotated 90º.

So, as you can see, every company treats the sensor in a different way, and thus, achieve different results.

Answering your question, mice with sensors S3688, S3888 and A3090 with Avago lens should have no problem at all tracking up to ~2000CPI, and that's a conservative approach (S3888 tracks great on 3500CPI, and some mice with A3090 track good enough at 4000CPI), however G400 does have that characteristic that it tracks best at 400/800CPI and other native CPI offers do jitter a bit.
post #9 of 119
Thread Starter 
Yeah I have seen that thread, however by quanitifcating the countless amount of whine of the different mouse and taking up the Deathadder popularity it still confuses me - I really want to avoid testing the mice myself so I am sincerely looking for "It is definitely better to buy deathadder over savu because...." etc.

Too much input from forums are preferences - good, but its preferences based on child molested arguments taht i cant use.

But thanks for the answer though, but it doesnt help me super much.

I Assume that Roccat Savu & Cm Storm has a "better" avago 3090 sensor considering i dont want the LOD to be low, hence why they can track 4000 dpi. I also asume 3090 standard sensor is newer than DA sensor, and I also assume that all the sensors deliver about the same tracking.

I am still not sure if I like CM storm or Roccat Savu shape more than Deathadder, but we will see.
post #10 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theobeo View Post

Yeah I have seen that thread, however by quanitifcating the countless amount of whine of the different mouse and taking up the Deathadder popularity it still confuses me - I really want to avoid testing the mice myself so I am sincerely looking for "It is definitely better to buy deathadder over savu because...." etc.
Too much input from forums are preferences - good, but its preferences based on child molested arguments taht i cant use.
But thanks for the answer though, but it doesnt help me super much.
I Assume that Roccat Savu & Cm Storm has a "better" avago 3090 sensor considering i dont want the LOD to be low, hence why they can track 4000 dpi. I also asume 3090 standard sensor is newer than DA sensor, and I also assume that all the sensors deliver about the same tracking.
I am still not sure if I like CM storm or Roccat Savu shape more than Deathadder, but we will see.

Okay Theobeo good luck finding youre mouse. I will keep an eye on this tread.
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