Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › Razer Deathadder 4G
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Razer Deathadder 4G - Page 11

post #101 of 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by meih View Post

The only gripe I have with the Deathadder's shape is this area:

Bothers my ringfinger if I hold the mouse like this (not my pic):

Were it just straight and not curved it would be much more ergonomic for me. Other than that part it fits like a glove.

Yep... that and the /__\ shape has been a major problem with me. I couldn't really put my ring finger on the right mouse button because of the wave-like shape (really? of what use is that anyway?), therefore I had to put my ringfinger on the side of the mouse... because of it's broad curved shape this not only feels really awkward, but also automatically rotates the mouse counter-clock wise inside your hand.
post #102 of 565
ehrm the ringfinger is not for the right mouse button. It is supposed to be on the right side. you can google "how to hold a mouse" with picture search if you don't believe me smile.gif Are you by any chance a lefty that holds the mouse in the right hand ??? Cause I used to hold it like u 2 and I am such a lefty but I changed it long ago.
post #103 of 565
You guys (appear to) hold your DeathAdders weird.

My thumb is always resting on the back button, which puts my wrist at maybe a 10-15 degree angle to the desk.

You both appear to be resting your thumb on the bottom area of the mouse with your wrist flat to the desk, which is basically fighting the ergonomic shape of the mouse and treating it as if it were an ambidextrous mouse. (which are flat)

In both your photos, your index finger is not being supported by the mouse as a result of this - you're stretching it in such a way that your proximal phalanges appear to be hanging off the side of the mouse rather than resting on it.

7okbw.jpg

The bottom of my ring finger rests on that area at the top-right of the mouse which seems to bother you, not the side of it.

I would say that the DeathAdder shape is definitely designed for your middle finger on the right mouse button (as are most mice) rather than your ring finger. When I move my ring finger onto the right mouse button, it changes my grip to be more like a claw grip so that the middle part of my hand is hovering over the mouse rather than resting on, and being supported by the mouse.

P.S. when you try to take photos of your hand holding a mouse, it ends up looking weird.
post #104 of 565
When I used the Deathadder, I had the thumb like in the picture with the red X. I activated the back button with the thumbs knuckle by moving the thumb up and the front button with the thumb tip. That way I had not to bend the thumb and use the tip for both buttons, means less movement, faster response.
post #105 of 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAgain View Post

You guys (appear to) hold your DeathAdders weird.
My thumb is always resting on the back button, which puts my wrist at maybe a 10-15 degree angle to the desk.
You both appear to be resting your thumb on the bottom area of the mouse with your wrist flat to the desk, which is basically fighting the ergonomic shape of the mouse and treating it as if it were an ambidextrous mouse. (which are flat)
In both your photos, your index finger is not being supported by the mouse as a result of this - you're stretching it in such a way that your proximal phalanges appear to be hanging off the side of the mouse rather than resting on it.
7okbw.jpg
The bottom of my ring finger rests on that area at the top-right of the mouse which seems to bother you, not the side of it.
I would say that the DeathAdder shape is definitely designed for your middle finger on the right mouse button (as are most mice) rather than your ring finger. When I move my ring finger onto the right mouse button, it changes my grip to be more like a claw grip so that the middle part of my hand is hovering over the mouse rather than resting on, and being supported by the mouse.
P.S. when you try to take photos of your hand holding a mouse, it ends up looking weird.

I certainly disagree with the thumb placement in that photo , theres rarely a universalscience on how to hold things, you should see how unnaturally I hold a gold club or tennis racket but it works. I rest my thumb under the side buttons and my palm is comfortablly guiding the mouse still not a claw grip.
Edited by duox - 11/8/12 at 10:48am
Kara
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k Asus Maximus Hero VIII ASUS Strix 980 TI GSKILL Ripjaws V (2X8 gb) 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Kingston Hyper X Savage Crucial M500  Corsair H110i GTX Windows 10 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ 2420TE Corsair Strafe (MX Browns) EVGA P2 850w Corsair Air 540 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G303  Roccat Taito Sennheiser HD558 Blue Snowball Microphone 
  hide details  
Reply
Kara
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k Asus Maximus Hero VIII ASUS Strix 980 TI GSKILL Ripjaws V (2X8 gb) 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Kingston Hyper X Savage Crucial M500  Corsair H110i GTX Windows 10 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
BenQ 2420TE Corsair Strafe (MX Browns) EVGA P2 850w Corsair Air 540 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G303  Roccat Taito Sennheiser HD558 Blue Snowball Microphone 
  hide details  
Reply
post #106 of 565
First thing I'll do when I get it is change the green led back to the original blue. Don't like it at all.
post #107 of 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAgain View Post

You guys (appear to) hold your DeathAdders weird.

Maybe because my hands are too large? I can palm a G400 just fine but not a Deathadder as it's not long enough.
Intalus
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 860 ASUS P7P55D Deluxe MSI Lightning GTX 580 1536MB Corsair Dominator 16GB 1333 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB, Western Digital Caviar Blac... Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Dell Ultrasharp 3007 WFP-HC Realforce 103 [variable weighted] 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Silverstone TJ-07 Razer Krait 2013 / Roccat Savu Steelseries Experience I-2 / Zowie G-TF  
Audio
Ultrasone Pro 900 & HRT Music Streamer II+ 
  hide details  
Reply
Intalus
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i7 860 ASUS P7P55D Deluxe MSI Lightning GTX 580 1536MB Corsair Dominator 16GB 1333 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB, Western Digital Caviar Blac... Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit Dell Ultrasharp 3007 WFP-HC Realforce 103 [variable weighted] 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Silverstone TJ-07 Razer Krait 2013 / Roccat Savu Steelseries Experience I-2 / Zowie G-TF  
Audio
Ultrasone Pro 900 & HRT Music Streamer II+ 
  hide details  
Reply
post #108 of 565
You guys seem not to understand what I meant before. Yes I know the Deathadder isn't designed for the ring finger to rest on the right MB. But that in combination with the wider front makes the mouse rotate counter-clock wise inside your hand... but I'll come to that later again.

The thing is (and not many people know this) that some mice are designed to keep your ring finger on the MB, like the Xai/Sensai or the Lachesis (although it has nothing to do with these examples being ambidextrous per se). Of course you can still put your ring finger on the right side of the mouse but not only will this feel uncomfortable after prolonged usage, but it will also produce the problem I mention with the DA above. It will automatically rotate the mouse counter-clock wise for a few degrees within your hand because the ring finger pushes against the front right side of the mouse and that of course also rotates the x- and y-axis, making your hand coordination needing to compensate for this behavior.

Interestingly I didn't use this grip myself in the beginning when I received a pre-release Xai. So I have to admit I didn't like it's shape that much because of the issues mentioned above but first of all it just didn't feel comfortable (so I didn't really use it after testing it for a while). Now it might have been a year later that I gave it another try and accidentally put my ring finger on the right MB. Now I reckon this felt awkward at first... awkward but WAY more comfortable. So I tried to stick to it for a while and realized that the shape of the Xai has to be one of the most comfortable and natural to my hand WHEN holding it the way I described before (ring finger next to the middle finger on the MB).

Now I know that the DA isn't designed to grip that way -- the right MB isn't wide enough and has this bulge at the edge. So yeah there's no other way with the DA other than to keep the ring finger on the side of the mouse -- and don't get me wrong it does feel really comfortable. Absolutely no issues with that. But this shows the problem I'm talking about without over-explaining this thing:



In the previous picture you could see the angle of the mouse how it is aligned in the hand and how it actually should be aligned (again: this is with the ring finger on the side how probably everybody is holding their DA and how it is comfortable). This rotation wouldn't happen if (Option A:) the right front side of the mouse wouldn't be as wide as they designed it to be, so the ring finger wouldn't be pushed out as far to the side. (Option B:) They could have also made the right MB a little wider but without that bulge (maybe even sloped down a little) just like the Xai/Sensei for example. Option B would make it optimal to put the ring finger on the MB next to the middle finger, so it would change the ergonomics quite a bit making it a bit of a hybrid of the Sensai and DA shape.

Anyway the rotation of the DA within the hand causes another problem (maybe not for everybody but at least for me): As you can see in the next picture that's how holding the DA looks from above -- no issue at first sign. But if you look closely there's a big distance between the index and middle finger and to keep it that way I have to force those finger apart a little. While this doesn't give an issue at first, after prolonged use it does feel a little uncomfortable because after all I still have to force those fingers in that position.



In the following image you can see how my index finger would rather rest naturally (without forcing it away from the middle finger). Now during usage my index finger never rests on the mousewheel as you can see here (as I actively keep it away of course) but I find myself often touching the side of the wheel. So not a BIG issue but after a while forcing the index finger out gets it tired a little, which is enough to show that the design isn't perfectly thought through.



OK just as a comparison here's my Lachesis (and it's no different to the Xai in that matter). In that picture I keep my ring finger on the right MB (actually to be more specific it's the side of the button where the bulge slopes down again).



Here you can see how I'm holding it from above (notice the more natural distance between the index and middle finger as opposed to the DA):



Now the following image is interesting in that it shows that the Lachesis (as an example) is a mouse that's not intended for gripping it with the ring finger on the side:



As you can obviously see the ring finger is pushing the side of the mouse in a way that rotates the mouse within the hand (although the interesting thing is that at least in my hand it's still less rotation than with the Deathadder). But there's one more thing specifically with the Lachesis (doesn't happen with the Xai/Sensai because there's not such a huge difference in width between the front and the back of the mouse). Notice that I have to curl my pinkie in order to have it set lower than the ring finger so I'm able to touch the side of the mouse with it. If I wouldn't do that and stretch the pinkie in a more natural position it would stay pretty much next to the ring finger. That means that the pink line (depicting the angle of the pinkie) would be more parallel to the light green line of the ring finger thus making less contact between the pinkie and the side of the mouse. I noticed it because it leads to less grip when lifting the mouse.

Also in comparison with the Deathadder there's not that problem of an unnaturally wide distance between the index and middle finger. Nope but the same thing happens now between ring finger and the middle finger, because as you can see the width of the front of the Lachesis is quite gigantic compared to other mice and as you keep the ring finger at the side it really pries them apart. And while with the Deathadder this gets uncomfortable after prolonged usage, with the Lachesis it's just horrible from the second you put it there.

So in essence: I know that was a pretty long explenation but all I'm trying to say is that the Deathadder in it's actual shape when gripping it the way it is (poorly) designed for, leads to rotation of the mouse in the hand which may also lead to a wider distance between the middle and index finger (tiring because unnatural). One way to solve this would be to put your ring finger next to your middle finger on the right MB. Unfortunately the right MB is not wide enough to keep both fingers resting on it without stuffing them together and you would also have to keep the ring finger on this bulge which is not that ergonomic either.

To eliminate these issues there'd be 2 ways to reshape the DA:
a.) Make the right side at the front and the button itself a few millimeters narrower. That way people could continue using the mouse with the ring finger on it's side but without that (excess) rotation issues.
b.) Make the right MB a little wider but ditch that bulge and shape it a little convex with a downward slope. That way it would be possible to keep the ring finger next to the middle finger on the right MB and therefore also eliminating the rotation issues.
Edited by MONVMENTVM - 11/8/12 at 5:05pm
post #109 of 565
Whenever I place my ring finger on my MB, I tend to accidentally click often, but it's very comfortable this way and is the only way I can hold it really. To fix it, maybe narrower buttons so they can put a place for the ring finger to rest on?
post #110 of 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by krokdylz View Post

ehrm the ringfinger is not for the right mouse button. It is supposed to be on the right side. you can google "how to hold a mouse" with picture search if you don't believe me smile.gif Are you by any chance a lefty that holds the mouse in the right hand ??? Cause I used to hold it like u 2 and I am such a lefty but I changed it long ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAgain View Post

You guys (appear to) hold your DeathAdders weird.
My thumb is always resting on the back button, which puts my wrist at maybe a 10-15 degree angle to the desk.
You both appear to be resting your thumb on the bottom area of the mouse with your wrist flat to the desk, which is basically fighting the ergonomic shape of the mouse and treating it as if it were an ambidextrous mouse. (which are flat)

I would say that the DeathAdder shape is definitely designed for your middle finger on the right mouse button (as are most mice) rather than your ring finger. When I move my ring finger onto the right mouse button, it changes my grip to be more like a claw grip so that the middle part of my hand is hovering over the mouse rather than resting on, and being supported by the mouse.
P.S. when you try to take photos of your hand holding a mouse, it ends up looking weird.

I know that the mouse is designed for the middle finger on mouse 2. But I never had issues with other mice that also "intend" to have that placement. The Zowie is very similar and I have no real issues with that mouse with the same grip.

It is funny that people say I hold a mouse wrong. I hold a mouse the most natural way for my hand size. I relax my hand and place it on a mouse. I don't allow my hands to touch the mouse pad. I try to use my palm to lift the mouse by bringing the thumb and small finger toward one another. Another reason I place my middle finger on the scroll wheel is because I use it just as much or if not more than I do mouse 2. I use mwheeldown as jump and mouse 3 as voice communications. Since scroll wheel is always busy I need to use the ring finger to take the position of mouse 2.

An example would be when AWPing I need to use mouse 1 and 2 just to use the AWP. I still need to jump and talk to the team when I am using the keyboard for player movement. Since you use walk (for me that is space bar) all the time, you only have one finger left to crouch (I use shift), as WASD is for your movement.

I place my thumb right under the side buttons because I do not want to accidentally actuate the buttons. If you relax your hand that is where it goes anyway. With my sensitivity requiring me to do two swipes on a 16 1/2" mouse pad to do a 180, I lift the mouse a lot. So placing my thumb on the side buttons is a silly thing to do.

So that would explain my "wrong" hand placement purely on efficiency within game. Now onto the other reason I know the DeathAdder is shaped wrong; that would be just as the very smart guy [MONVMENTVM] has shown. The DeathAdder forces you to hold it wrong regardless of grip style as it places the sensor off axis. It is an uphill battle with the DeathAdder's shape.

I could give advice to Razer on how to improve their mouse shape but why would I give that away for free. It isn't hard to figure out anyway.
Edited by popups - 11/8/12 at 5:06pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mice
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › Razer Deathadder 4G