Razer Deathadder 4G - Page 12

Nice explanation overall. You opened my eyes.

Another simple way to overcome this rotation issue is simply to add an axis calibration option.
I know there's such a thing because my Trackman Marble can be calibrated to have the X axis in the angle you decide to place the trackball, extremely useful if you want to use the ball with your thumb or do weird grips (trackballs are weird so weird is allowed).
If they can place the same sensor within rotations of 90 degrees on different mice, this calibration option should be at least achievable by firmware.

It blows my mind that they're not doing this already, I mean, It would make AMAZING marketing material to add such a feature (within the explanation of the fully customizable grip with axis rotation for the ultimate gaming comfort kickass performance frags!)

I have said what MONVMENTVM has shown like 4 times before on this forum. But people want to argue that I don't know how to hold a mouse and link me to some stupid tutorial or photo.

People need to look at how a mouse dictates your grip and how the sensor is angled with such a grip. It is so obvious to a competent human when they are in game.

Grab any mouse you have, turn it upside down when it is in your hand, look at the sensor (unplug the mouse first) to see the alignment, now align the sensor and see how the mouse now fits in your hand. Is it as comfortable now? Do you have fatigue issues when playing hours at a time with the grip that has the sensor aligned? You don't play better when you hold it in the most comfortable manner if the sensor is not aligned that is for sure.
Edited by popups - 11/8/12 at 6:38pm

A golf club or tennis racket are simple designs though. The DeathAdder is an ergonomically designed mouse that was designed for a specific way of holding it.

It's clearly not intended to be held in such a way that your wrist is parallel to the desk:


This is why there are left and right-handed versions of the DeathAdder.
A symmetrical ambidextrous mouse would be more comparable to something like the golf club or tennis racket in your example.
My thumb is resting on both buttons there. There's no movement to press either button.
This happens when you have your wrist parallel to the desk with the DeathAdder shape, rather than at a 10-15° angle.

On the left is holding the DeathAdder "correctly" with my wrist at the angle the mouse is designed for, on the right is holding it with my thumb below the side buttons, wrist parallel to the desk:

Note how much more relaxed my fingers are on the left. (weird colors due to the lighting in here)
This is much more like the position your fingers are put into when you have your wrist at an angle on the DeathAdder, except they are curved around the shell, rather than held out straight.

You're holding the DeathAdder as if it were an ambidextrous mouse (like the Lachesis) not an ergonomic one.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to have three fingers on the top of the mouse, but when I do that, I find that my hand position moves forward, and I am starting to grip the mouse when moving it, rather than just resting my hand on the mouse. As you say you lift the mouse a lot (I don't lift at all really) which tells me that you are definitely gripping the mouse, rather than resting on it.

I can't be gripping a mouse when using it all day, because it causes me serious RSI pain, which was a problem for me with the Roccat Savu as that requires you to grip it, due to its narrow design.

I often do end up with three fingers on the mouse when using it in Windows, but when I'm gaming, I'm moving the mouse around a lot more, and at faster speeds, which means I grip it more tightly with my little finger which causes pain after a short period of time.

It's still easy to hold the mouse with your wrist at an angle and your thumb on the buttons with three fingers on top, but if you're lifting the mouse a lot, I can see why you wouldn't want to keep your thumb there. The DeathAdder shape doesn't seem to have been designed with that style of gameplay in mind, which would also explain the weight, and high lift-off distance.
I think it depends how you position your hand on the arch. They're basically the same length, but the G400 has a much flatter profile than the DeathAdder:


I feel bad for making the "you're holding it wrong" argument, but the mouse is clearly not designed to be held with your wrist parallel to the desk, unlike the G400 which has a much shallower angle and flatter profile.

It's too bad they don't offer an ambidextrous mouse with the DeathAdder sensor in it, because it seems like that's what most of you actually want. (whether you realize it or not)
Edited by NotAgain - 11/8/12 at 7:21pm

Honestly, the problem is not with the Deathadder but with your button setup. Or rather with the Deathadder not being meant for such a setup. I hold my DA like NotAgain shows and it is a) comfortable and b) perfectly aligned with my hand. I have my thumb below the side buttons though, as I play lowsens and have to lift it a lot.

Using middle finger for mwheel and ring finger for m2 just doesn't work with the DA.

Honestly, to me the shape of the DA is one of the most comfortable of all mice, maybe because I'm so used to it. But I also liked the G400 and G500 shape wise. The best mouse in terms of shape is still the Mionix NAOS though. If only it had a better sensor.
Edited by Ino. - 11/8/12 at 10:55pm

@NotAgain & Ino.

With my FPS buttons layout aside, as it doesn't really matter.

Have you guys went into a FPS game and did multiple 360s with large swipes to see how well your grip aligns the sensor? If I hold it just like you guys say to the sensor is not perfectly aligned. This makes the crosshair move diagonally.

When you are in a game straighten your wrist, don't allow it to go left or right, then start from the left end of your mouse pad and calmly move to the right. Do this with your eyes closed, just focus on not canting your wrist and keeping your hand movement constant. Keep resetting and swiping for about 6 or more times. After you're done look at your screen and see if your crosshair has moved down from its original position. If you kept your wrist straight it is very likely your crosshair is resting below its starting point.

Competitive FPS players tend to have low sensitivities. My highest sensitivity requires 25" to do a 360. That bing said, the weight and lack of grip (users with dry hands) of this mouse, the style of grip you suggest is not going to allow the player to perform their best. The majority of "professional" gamers that I have talked to that use or used the DeathAdder have told me they don't like the shape. They rather switch, or have already done so, to another mouse.

Maybe Glockateer can comment about the DeathAdder's shape compared to the beta sample of BST's mouse if he has a DeathAdder. He plays in a competitive FPS league. Would he rather use a DeathAdder or the shell BST is using?

Well, I played competitively with the Deathadder in TF2. And I know some of the top guys were using the DA too. I use it in BF3 as well, and although we play in Clanbase Cups and Ladders you really can't call BF3 a competitive FPS.

But coming back to your point: The DA for me goes as straight as I can do with any of my other mice (Abyssus, Kana, G400, G500, Mionix NAOS 5000) as I always have to move my wrist too for a full swipe (~60cm/360°). If I hold my lower arm and wrist aligned I'd always do an arc.

I'm not saying that the Deathadder is perfect for every hand/grip combination. But it is the most comfortable for me. And also the best performing. There is room for optimization though, as someone suggested a \ _ / shape like the Abyssus would be better to lift the mouse. But with the glossy sides I never had a problem with that.

I don't think he'll mind me answering, but he prefers smaller and particularly lighter mice due to his grip. I had my sample sent to him as I am very busy with other things.

This has nothing to do with which mouse shape is better or worse, thou subjectively, I too would also choose a mouse thats comfortable. It's common sense.
Edited by Skylit - 11/9/12 at 2:48am

Is that mouse even released that you guys talk too much? :\

Do not let people tell you how to hold a mouse, all the pictures in the world cannot make a grip that makes you personally have signifigantly less control better.

I'm not condoning what he said, but the term learning can apply to crippling habits. I'll just leave it at that.