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[TR] Raspberry Pi RAM Doubled - Page 5

post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

That's right... the RAM is on-package. tongue.gif
The developers discussed about going with Broadcom already.... the most important criteria for the project was price. They had awknowledge the restrictions with Broadcom but it was by far the best choice to hit their pricing.

Quite correct, it is indeed "on-package" thumb.gif

I had quite the post typed and then hit ctrl-r instead of ctrl-t causing everything to be lost. Sick of typing this over, I'll be brief (and maybe suggest an auto-save redface.gif ).

I was told some months ago (long before most people had heard of the pi project; take the story, despite its sense with a grain of salt) that some people at pi knew some people at Broadcom. An agreement was struck that pi could get end-run chips for near production cost. End run chips is (for explanation for whomever does not know) referring to extra chips made to ensure supply. For example, if a company orders 5 million chips, rather than make exactly that many and hope that all the chips work and that none are damaged before the chips are delivered, companies often make a few thousand extra chips. These add a little to the overall production cost, but can save millions in fees from not delivering enough chips on time. These chips would be perfect for both pi and Broadcom. Broadcom would be able to recover the base cost of the chips (and maybe get some good PR) while pi (who only expected unit sales from the thousands to low tens of thousands) would get cheap chips.

Despite this fact, I would rather pay a few dollars more and get a product that has a more open architecture. The focus of pi is software anyway. Increasing the difficulty with loads of binary blobs and (even worse) a blackbox architecture hurts the goals of the project more than a slight increase in price (IMHO). The only reason I can think of for Broadcom to be so protective is that TV or dvd player manufacturers (the primary purchasers of these chips) fear that opening the architecture will allow someone to steal free cable or something. While they may have a good business point, it is this exact point that states why these chips are unsuitable for the project; that is, hacking the pi (the old meaning of hacking) is nearly impossible. In addition, with the amount of orders that pi has, what are they doing for chips? Either they are placing their own orders (either at full price or getting some kind of deal, presumably because they're a charity) or they are delaying shipments until new end-runs appear.

edit: The Allwinner A10 is a 1.2GHz A8 processor with a Mali400 GPU for only $7 per unit. With the Allwinner costing at most $7 more than the Broadcom chip (and I bet it's more like $1-2), while offering much greater openness and much better performance, I don't see there being a contest. Also on the table for similar pricing is the Ingenic Xburst JZ4770. It's single-core 1GHz MIPS chip offers an IPC slightly lower than A9 (that's still better than the Allwinner A8 and much, much better than the ARM11 in the pi) while great 3D (and dedicated 2D) performance (there's OpenCL support too). Anyway, the point is that there are other less locked down options without breaking the budget.
Edited by hajile - 10/15/12 at 8:59pm
post #42 of 68
I hope the 8 Pi's that our Tech Club put orders in for come with this updated quantity.
post #43 of 68
where can one buy one and have it shipped to Canada?
Hows android going on on these? whats the latest update there?
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post #44 of 68
Lol - got the e-mail from Newark/Element 14 which basically says good news you're getting more RAM tongue.gif not only that but it shipped today and I should have it Tuesday (tomorrow). Wasn't expecting it to ship till early November... wheee.gif
Edited by Sainesk - 10/15/12 at 9:14pm
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post #45 of 68
The purpose of the Raspberry Pi isn't that it's just an inexpensive computer, it's that it's super small and inexpensive! You can go out and get a used $50 tower that has much more power. Also it's fun to be able to play around with an ARM chip. Just wanted to get that out there lol
post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisx View Post

where can one buy one and have it shipped to Canada?
Hows android going on on these? whats the latest update there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAQ 
A version of android can be found in the forum. It is not presently stable enough for everyday use, however work is continuing on it.

I'm in Canada and got mine from Newark - think it comes to around $47 with taxes (amount depends on which Province you're in I think) and 1 day shipping, and you may or may not be charged an import fee since it's coming over from the US (should be under $10).
I think they switched back to "register interest" instead of being able to place an order though... sadsmiley.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newark 
Unfortunately, due to the high demand we have experienced today, we have temporarily suspended sales of the new Raspberry Pi board while our systems catch up. Please add your name and email address below and we will contact you when you can place your order. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Edited by Sainesk - 10/15/12 at 10:01pm
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post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

Quite correct, it is indeed "on-package" thumb.gif
I had quite the post typed and then hit ctrl-r instead of ctrl-t causing everything to be lost. Sick of typing this over, I'll be brief (and maybe suggest an auto-save redface.gif ).
I was told some months ago (long before most people had heard of the pi project; take the story, despite its sense with a grain of salt) that some people at pi knew some people at Broadcom. An agreement was struck that pi could get end-run chips for near production cost. End run chips is (for explanation for whomever does not know) referring to extra chips made to ensure supply. For example, if a company orders 5 million chips, rather than make exactly that many and hope that all the chips work and that none are damaged before the chips are delivered, companies often make a few thousand extra chips. These add a little to the overall production cost, but can save millions in fees from not delivering enough chips on time. These chips would be perfect for both pi and Broadcom. Broadcom would be able to recover the base cost of the chips (and maybe get some good PR) while pi (who only expected unit sales from the thousands to low tens of thousands) would get cheap chips.
Despite this fact, I would rather pay a few dollars more and get a product that has a more open architecture. The focus of pi is software anyway. Increasing the difficulty with loads of binary blobs and (even worse) a blackbox architecture hurts the goals of the project more than a slight increase in price (IMHO). The only reason I can think of for Broadcom to be so protective is that TV or dvd player manufacturers (the primary purchasers of these chips) fear that opening the architecture will allow someone to steal free cable or something. While they may have a good business point, it is this exact point that states why these chips are unsuitable for the project; that is, hacking the pi (the old meaning of hacking) is nearly impossible. In addition, with the amount of orders that pi has, what are they doing for chips? Either they are placing their own orders (either at full price or getting some kind of deal, presumably because they're a charity) or they are delaying shipments until new end-runs appear.
edit: The Allwinner A10 is a 1.2GHz A8 processor with a Mali400 GPU for only $7 per unit. With the Allwinner costing at most $7 more than the Broadcom chip (and I bet it's more like $1-2), while offering much greater openness and much better performance, I don't see there being a contest. Also on the table for similar pricing is the Ingenic Xburst JZ4770. It's single-core 1GHz MIPS chip offers an IPC slightly lower than A9 (that's still better than the Allwinner A8 and much, much better than the ARM11 in the pi) while great 3D (and dedicated 2D) performance (there's OpenCL support too). Anyway, the point is that there are other less locked down options without breaking the budget.

Consider that the design for these things was done before either chip you mention was available. Going back and redesigning the whole thing for a new chip would take considerable time and money.
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post #48 of 68
sigh, got mine last week and now they double the ram.
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post #49 of 68
I just need to grab one of these they're awesome.
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post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Not quite the same.... there's no programmable controller and it costs twice as much.
Different devices for different needs.

I have no idea. The previous poster mentioned it.
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