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post #51 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partol View Post

Look at all of your arguing with each other about which departments to cut and no one mentions interest payments on debt.

There is no need to pay back the debt.
Nationalize (or abolish) all private central banks.
There is no need to borrow money (at interest) from a private central bank.
Government is 100% capable of printing it's own interest-free money
After the private central banks are nationalized, there will be no need to pay back the debt, since the central bank will be a government department.

By the way, if we did actually pay back the debt, it would cause massive deflation and high unemployment.
Most countries are very heavily in debt. Paying back all the debt is not a realistic option. just forget about it.

Not paying back the debt means that countries lending money to us lose faith in our ability to pay back out debt at any time, and then money lent to us starts having increased interest amounts, which means it is even harder to repay, and you end up in a vicious cycle much worse than we're in now.

Printing a ton of extra money will devalue the currency and make inflation go crazy, effectively cancelling out all of the printing of extra money.

Paying back the debt is realistic, the country has been in and out of debt many times in the last century, no reason to believe we cannot do it again. It's simply that we're in the largest economic slump since the great depression, so it's going to take some time. The biggest hurdle right now is a political one, but we can't really go into that here on OCN.
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post #52 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

since my post was removed even though it discussed mostly the economic factors
NASA R and D developed how many techs?
2 techs keeping us from crashing into the ground that Military R and D created? Internet (Darpanet) and CELL phones (first backpack radios of ww2 were cell phones)
Please list the technologies MORE valuable than these 2 to the world economy that NASA R and D created.
You might not like it but wars breed more innovation than the drive to get into space. Sorry, but its true. I like space stuff too but I understand fundamentally it does not drive publics to support massive amounts of spending. Saving your butt from the other guy does. Its a simple fact of life.
This is why privatizing space is a good idea. Because they will get up there a lot faster because profit motivates them not public policy.

Where do I begin. Things NASA R&D has led to

-LEDs
-Infrared ear thermometers
-Ventricular assist devices (the thing that keeps you alive for a heart transplant)
-Artificial limbs
-Invisible braces
-Scratch resistant lenses
-Aircraft anti-icing systems
-Highway safety (the grooves in highways to help with traction)
-Improved radial tires (you know, the stuff we DRIVE on)
-Chemical detection
-Video enhancing and analysis systems
-Fire-resistant reinforcement
-Firefighting equipment
-Temper foam
-Enriched baby food
-Portable cordless vacuums
-Freeze drying
-Water purification
-Solar energy collection
-Pollution remediation
-Structural analysis software
-Embedded web technology
-Powdered lubricants
-Improved mining safety
-Food product and processing safety
-Shock absorbing shoe insoles
-Long distance telecomm
-Adjustable smoke detectors
-Velcro
-Polymer coatings
-Lockable knee braces
-Robotic joints
-Photorefraction screening
-Periodontal probes
-Magnetic separators
-Lithium batteries
-Advanced control systems for helicopters
-Aerodynamics research
-Fiber optic sensing
-Advanced X-rays
-Wireless fluid-level measurement systems
-Aerogels
-Improved outboard motors
-Portable nanomesh filters
-Improved stemless valves
-Web-based geographical mapping


That's just a portion of what NASA research has led to and you want to tell me that those 2 technologies you listed are more important that ALL of those? Cell phones? Really? The world worked well without them for how long? Same with the internet. Sure, they made life easier, but you're fooling yourself if you think we wouldn't survive without them. Maybe the people who rely on them 24/7 (and I feel sad for those folks), but MOST of the world can get on just fine without them.
Edited by Marafice Eye - 10/15/12 at 7:17pm
 
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post #53 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasyalive View Post

A lot of people hate that we even spend 2 billion on Nasa. Their is quite a large number people in the US who feel like its should be cut completely and turned over to the private sector in its entirety. They believe its unconstitional and unjustified spending of tax dollars. So definately an uphill battle.

That's unbelievable. NASA and its programs have come up with countless major innovations and technological advancements, as well as advancing science and math. If anything it should have a MUCH larger budget. Unfortunately our current pres. seems interested more in being a celebrity and hanging out with Jay-Z, Beyonce, Late Night show, etc., so I think a letter is a waste of time until something changes.
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post #54 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post

That's unbelievable. NASA and its programs have come up with countless major innovations and technological advancements, as well as advancing science and math. If anything it should have a MUCH larger budget. Unfortunately our current pres. seems interested more in being a celebrity and hanging out with Jay-Z, Beyonce, Late Night show, etc., so I think a letter is a waste of time until something changes.

And this is exactly what the warning was about. Stop bringing party politics into this discussion or the thread is going to get closed.
 
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post #55 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

And this is exactly what the warning was about. Stop bringing party politics into this discussion or the thread is going to get closed.
This....
post #56 of 135
I would like to personally donk on the head anyone who cheerleads the gutting of NASA out one side of their mouth and complains about the economy out the other. Where do you think those dollars go?

(Hint: they don't fill up a rocket with dollar bills and ignite them to achieve liftoff)
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post #57 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlord52 View Post

WHY DO THEY KEEP DOING THIS.

Also, who elects these people?
"Hey, yea, let's make the defense budget $683 billion dollars per year... but Nasa? I think $17.7 billion per year is a BIT high...."

Just a heads up, you guys have been at war or cautious of the middle east for quite some time. Now I know you guys might not know this, but upkeep on military activities is rather expensive. Unless you want to cut, say, all this protective gear for your troops then go ahead.

But this sucks, NASA needs a heck of a lot more funding!
post #58 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

Where do I begin. Things NASA R&D has led to
-LEDs
-Infrared ear thermometers
-Ventricular assist devices (the thing that keeps you alive for a heart transplant)
-Artificial limbs
-Invisible braces
-Scratch resistant lenses
-Aircraft anti-icing systems
-Highway safety (the grooves in highways to help with traction)
-Improved radial tires (you know, the stuff we DRIVE on)
-Chemical detection
-Video enhancing and analysis systems
-Fire-resistant reinforcement
-Firefighting equipment
-Temper foam
-Enriched baby food
-Portable cordless vacuums
-Freeze drying
-Water purification
-Solar energy collection
-Pollution remediation
-Structural analysis software
-Embedded web technology
-Powdered lubricants
-Improved mining safety
-Food product and processing safety
-Shock absorbing shoe insoles
-Long distance telecomm
-Adjustable smoke detectors
-Velcro
-Polymer coatings
-Lockable knee braces
-Robotic joints
-Photorefraction screening
-Periodontal probes
-Magnetic separators
-Lithium batteries
-Advanced control systems for helicopters
-Aerodynamics research
-Fiber optic sensing
-Advanced X-rays
-Wireless fluid-level measurement systems
-Aerogels
-Improved outboard motors
-Portable nanomesh filters
-Improved stemless valves
-Web-based geographical mapping
That's just a portion of what NASA research has led to and you want to tell me that those 2 technologies you listed are more important that ALL of those? Cell phones? Really? The world worked well without them for how long? Same with the internet. Sure, they made life easier, but you're fooling yourself if you think we wouldn't survive without them. Maybe the people who rely on them 24/7 (and I feel sad for those folks), but MOST of the world can get on just fine without them.

ENIAC, the first computer, was designed to calculate artillery firing tables for the United States Army's Ballistic Research Laboratory. So anything that uses computers or electronics has the military to thank. You're fooling yourself if you think NASA did more than military R&D. Our modern day economy is dependent upon the internet, cell phone technologies, and computers. Imagine if everything had to go through the mail post? Name any large corporation that doesn't use computers. Much of the research NASA does is computer assisted, and important collaboration with universities is done via the internet. So many of the technologies you listed depend on computers, especially nano technology, advanced control systems for helicopters, fiber optics, nanomeshes, lithography for solar panels, long range communication systems, etc. The research would not have been possible without computers. Also, whose to say these technologies wouldn't have existed without nasa? The only difference is that the tech would be more privatized. Maybe since NASA isn't that efficient, we would have an even higher rate of technological development.
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post #59 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by serp777 View Post

ENIAC, the first computer, was designed to calculate artillery firing tables for the United States Army's Ballistic Research Laboratory. So anything that uses computers or electronics has the military to thank. You're fooling yourself if you think NASA did more than military R&D. Our modern day economy is dependent upon the internet, cell phone technologies, and computers. Imagine if everything had to go through the mail post? Name any large corporation that doesn't use computers. Much of the research NASA does is computer assisted, and important collaboration with universities is done via the internet. So many of the technologies you listed depend on computers, especially nano technology, advanced control systems for helicopters, fiber optics, nanomeshes, lithography for solar panels, long range communication systems, etc. The research would not have been possible without computers. Also, whose to say these technologies wouldn't have existed without nasa? The only difference is that the tech would be more privatized. Maybe since NASA isn't that efficient, we would have an even higher rate of technological development.

Trivial argument, you can argue all you want about what 'might have been'. Hindsight is always 20/20. Who's to say we wouldn't have developed the computer WITHOUT the military? The argument is a moot point. He asked for important things that were developed by NASA or through NASA research, I gave him a list. I didn't argue that military R&D wasn't valuable now did I? But the fact is, the MAJORITY of the military budget is NOT spent on R&D.

You're also not comprehending what I said. Every corp uses computers of course they do, they made life easier. But that's only been in the last few decades. How did we ever get by without them? (and yes that WAS sarcasm) Our world functioned perfectly fine without computers for much longer than we've actually had them. Same thing with regular mail? My god how did anything ever get done? It did, plain and simple. In fact, explain to me how you are able to get anything you order with your 'can't live without it internet', without good old fashioned delivery people? Sure, they're productivity is increased by computers, but again, you're absolutely fooling yourself if you think we couldn't function without cellphones or the internet.
Edited by Marafice Eye - 10/15/12 at 8:27pm
 
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post #60 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

Trivial argument, you can argue all you want about what 'might have been'. Hindsight is always 20/20. Who's to say we wouldn't have developed the computer WITHOUT the military? The argument is a moot point. He asked for important things that were developed by NASA or through NASA research, I gave him a list. I didn't argue that military R&D wasn't valuable now did I? But the fact is, the MAJORITY of the military budget is NOT spent on R&D.


Actually you're misquoting me sir. I said this
Quote:
please list the technologies MORE valuable than these 2 to the world economy that NASA R and D created.

you failed to list a single one and several you listed are factually incorrect.

Another thing that has not been recognized properly is why NASA got major funding in the first place? Anyone know? It was a conflict. A war that no shots were fired in. You know that War that lasted almost 45 years? Every commander of missions to space are/were military officers. If you guys want NASA to continue to exist I suggest you start lobbying for it to be absorbed by the military. It will get some REAL funding then and we'll see space exploration take off.
 
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