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post #91 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchmoSalt View Post

That's not to mention that the reckless printing of money will cause other nations to not be confident in USD. If they aren't confident in USD then they will trade in another currency. This is already happening between Japan and China.
I disagree with raising taxes after the economy returns to normal. If I made a highly successful game today I would be taxed 46%. That is an insane percentage. That means if I made $10,500,000 I would only receive $5,700,000. The government would take $4,800,000 of my earned income. Why should I even bother when the only reason to make it anymore is my passion for gaming? If you raise taxes even higher you'll just kill off even more creativity and innovation. When you kill off the incentive for creativity and innovation you hurt the economy. After seeing the 46% figure I don't even know if I want to dedicate the time towards making an indie title.
Weird. When the highest rate was above 90%, people still continued to run their businesses. Why are today's entrepreneurs so lazy compared to their forbears?
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post #92 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versa View Post

I believe someone posted spending figures on the U.S Budget and our National Defense/Military was like $467 Billion year vs NASA like $2 Billion.

I'll leave it here.

post #93 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchmoSalt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

Everything you're talking about acts as if the United States is in an economic bubble, and it's not, the U.S. economy is heavily dependent upon the economies of the world. We can't just print money to solve our problems and then adjust interest rates to compensate, that will do nothing for other counties trading with us. Printing more money devalues the U.S. dollar worldwide, which would affect everybody using them, how will changing a U.S. interest rate help everyone else? If we screw everyone else, it'll just come right back to us as they start to make it impossible to trade with them, or too expensive to do so. Paying off the debt will not lead to deflation, I'm not sure where you get this information. That's like saying I shouldn't pay off my credit card bills. Paying down the debt will give the U.S. better borrowing rates with other countries, which is nothing but a good thing. Cutting government spending isn't the only answer to the problem, we need to get the economy going again, and then once it's healthy we likely need to raise taxes so we can make up for the lack of income we've had for 5 years now. Again, like a credit card, we racked up debt over the last 5 years so we could keep things moving, and once we're back on our feet we're going to have to take some of our paycheck to pay back the debt, otherwise interest rates will rise.
The video you posted only seems to make the point that we spend a lot of money each year. Unfortunately it's using statistics from an economy that's in its largest recession in 80 years. You'd be surprised when an economy grows how quickly it can begin to make up ground. There's no way to win this argument though, we'll just have to wait 5 years and look back and see. I certainly hope, for everyone's sake though, that you're wrong.

That's not to mention that the reckless printing of money will cause other nations to not be confident in USD. If they aren't confident in USD then they will trade in another currency. This is already happening between Japan and China.

I disagree with raising taxes after the economy returns to normal. If I made a highly successful game today I would be taxed 46%. That is an insane percentage. That means if I made $10,500,000 I would only receive $5,700,000. The government would take $4,800,000 of my earned income. Why should I even bother when the only reason to make it anymore is my passion for gaming? If you raise taxes even higher you'll just kill off even more creativity and innovation. When you kill off the incentive for creativity and innovation you hurt the economy. After seeing the 46% figure I don't even know if I want to dedicate the time towards making an indie title.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, the taxes are the lowest they've been in decades for the most part, and obviously that hasn't been helping anybody other than the richest people, as the gap between rich and poor is the largest it's ever been in US history.

Taxes over the years:


Income gap over the years:
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post #94 of 135
NASA's budget really flirts with politics, which makes it difficult to discuss on this site, but I really do hope that we somehow figure out a way to fund that program...



Do you have a more recent graph? That one is only to 2007. I'm curious what effect the recession has had on this trend (I imagine it made it worse).
Edited by SectorNine50 - 10/16/12 at 8:49am
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post #95 of 135
The amount of rage that I have that funding for something like this is even up for debate is limitless... Rampant ignorance and a lack of imagination will destroy the US.
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post #96 of 135
Congress is already overspending about $1 Trillion per year now. Have you ever heard anyone in congress say, "We would like to spend money on that, but we can't get the credit"? I never heard anyone in congress complain about a lack of credit.

The fundamental difference between what I propose and the current system is .....
With a nationalized central bank, interest payments can be reduced and eventually can go to zero.

$224 billion spent on interest in 2012 federal budget
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_federal_budget
Why spend money on interest when we don't have to?

Yes, if congress can print unlimited money, it may possibly spend too much.
But it's already spending too much.

The federal reserve (central) bank is already "printing" massive amounts of money.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/01/news/economy/fed_reserve_data_release/index.htm
The Federal Reserve made $9 trillion in overnight loans to major banks and Wall Street firms during the financial crisis, according to newly revealed data released Wednesday.

If congress and the Treasury control money "printing", at least there will be transparency, unlike the privately owned Central banks who can loan out unlimited money to anyone, for any reason, at any time.
Edited by Partol - 10/16/12 at 8:58am
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post #97 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by SectorNine50 View Post

NASA's budget really flirts with politics, which makes it difficult to discuss on this site, but I really do hope that we somehow figure out a way to fund that program...



Do you have a more recent graph? That one is only to 2007. I'm curious what effect the recession has had on this trend (I imagine it made it worse).

Here's a more recent graph, but it's not to scale, notice the top line is around 360% currently, even though on the graph it's only appears to be about 5x higher. It appears the recession brought it down a bit, and that it has been increasing since 2010.


Quote:
Among the 34 "developed" countries of the OECD the US gini rank in income equality (27th) is higher before taxes and "transfers" are measured,[85] then after (31st) [86]—i.e., the US has less income redistribution by government than some other post-industrial economies. However some developed countries, such as the Netherlands and Greece, have less inequality simply because incomes are more equal than in the US even before taxes.[87]

It's a tough situation, while I do believe that everyone should pay similar tax rates, I also know that the rich have the power to affect law and exploit the poor to secure their position and wealth, and with the gap being so incredibly large, I do feel like it might be time that the rich chipped in a little more, it's not the like poor can, and they're just getting poorer...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partol View Post

Congress is already overspending about $1 Trillion per year now. Have you ever heard anyone in congress say, "We would like to spend money on that, but we can't get the credit"? I never heard anyone in congress complain about a lack of credit.

The fundamental difference between what I propose and the current system is .....
With a nationalized central bank, interest payments can be reduced and eventually can go to zero.

$224 billion spent on interest in 2012 federal budget
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_federal_budget
Why spend money on interest when we don't have to?

Yes, if congress can print unlimited money, it may possibly spend too much.
But it's already spending too much.

The federal reserve (central) bank is already "printing" massive amounts of money.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/01/news/economy/fed_reserve_data_release/index.htm
The Federal Reserve made $9 trillion in overnight loans to major banks and Wall Street firms during the financial crisis, according to newly revealed data released Wednesday.

If congress and the Treasury control money "printing", at least there will be transparency, unlike the privately owned Central banks who can loan out unlimited money to anyone, for any reason, at any time.

If you're interested in the subject I would recommend taking some classes on economics. An economic's professor can explain much better than I can why "printing unlimited money" would be an unmitigated disaster. I would at least recommend researching what effect that has had on other countries who have tried it, let's just say, they were failures of epic proportions.
Edited by lordikon - 10/16/12 at 9:11am
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post #98 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marafice Eye View Post

Seems someone didn't actually READ the posts that were made as I know this is directed at me and Darkpriest. If you'd actually taken the time to thoroughly read what we've posted, you'd see we're two sides of the same coin. He argues that we need military R&D (which I agree with) and never says it should be the only source, but he IS correct in saying that without the DoD backing the research and development, the 2 major technologies we have today wouldn't be here as we know them. In fact I even said in an earlier post that without the DoD, who's to say we wouldn't have gotten those techs on our own, albeit probably much later.
Go back and ACTUALLY read what I wrote and tell me again why I'm stupid. Or was raised in the woods. Not once do I take a side, in fact, in my second to last post I specifically state we need BOTH areas. Then go look at the list of technologies I posted, then expanded upon and come back and tell me that without NASA backing or input, that we'd have them as readily available as we do today.
Before opening your mouth and claiming other people's stupidity and lack of education, maybe you should actually READ what's being written.

Thanks Marafice.


What I thought was funny is that he/she was assuming we were talking about one or the other being the driving force "behind the world". I think that shows a lack of critical thinking and reading comprehension. Its obvious we were talking about which produced more valuable technologies from R and D dollars. I would say though, that if NASA wants to stick around its probably going to have to be absorbed by the military so it can use those budgeting dollars to do what it needs to do.
 
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post #99 of 135
Bring back tariffs.

Single-payer health care.

Fix tax code.

US wins.
    
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post #100 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post

Bring back tariffs.
Single-payer health care.
Fix tax code.
US wins.


In a globalized economy you cannot introduce tariffs.
 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
5820k ASrock x99 Fatal1ty professional Gigabyte 1080 ti Corsair Vengeance DDR4 CAS 15 32GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung EVO 850 1TB SSD Corsair 110i GTX Microsoft Windows 10 Professional Acer 24 inch IPS 
MonitorMonitorMonitorKeyboard
Acer 24 inch IPS Acer 24 inch IPS Samsung 40 inch Corsair Strafe RGB MX cherry blue 
PowerCaseMouseMouse Pad
Corsair HX1000i Corsair Air 540 Corsair M65 RGB  Razer Manticor  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 2600k ASROCK Fatal1ty p67 EVGA GTX 980 SC 16380 MBMBDDR3-SDRAM (Gskill) 1600mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung HD103SJ x 2 Samsung 850 EVO  Corsair H100i Windows 10 Professional 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
Samsung - LN40D550 - 40" LCD TV - 1080p ACER R240HY ACER R240HY ACER R240HY 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
razer black widow Corsair TX850 Coolermaster HAF 932 CM Storm Recon 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
955 MSI 870S-G54 2 x 6850 HIS IceQ-x 8 Gigabytes Gskill 1600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung F3 1TB zalman 90mm Windows Ultimate x64 LG 47'  
MonitorPowerCase
Vizio 37' E370L  OCZ Modstream 700W Logisys CS888CL 
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