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[TPU] NVIDIA Kepler Refresh GPU Family Detailed - Page 8

post #71 of 79
10/17/12 at 5:49pm
"...the GeForce GTX 780. This product could offer a massive 40-55% performance increase over GeForce GTX 680..."

It could, but it won't. First of all I suspect they will have to go with harvested dies so I am not sure that these will be complete GK110 chips. Even if they are the GK110 is a computer work horse and will not scale with transistors or die size compared to GK104.

The numbers I have heard around closed to 20-30%. Not bad but we will have to factor in power, heat, and price when these launch.
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post #72 of 79
10/17/12 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mhill2029 View Post

It's common knowledge, hence for the much smaller memory bus.

Anecdotal evidence
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrplayer1 View Post

It's a known fact. Didn't they have a chart a while back saying that GK 104 would be 660?

Anecdotal evidence
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherlock View Post

Look at the chart in this article
GTX 560Ti uses a GF114 Chip, GTX 580 uses a GF110 Chip
GTX 680 uses a GK 104 Chip
By Nividia naming convention, a G* *60 card would use a G* 1*4 Chip, the G*80 Flagship card would use a G* 1*0 Chip.
Thus if following Nivida covention GTX 660Ti should have been the one using a GK104 chip, while the Flagship/*80 card would be using a GK100 Chip.

Anecdotal evidence
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Every single piece of info about it except the price and the marketing name.

Anecdotal evidence

anyone have a direct quote from Nvidia?
Edited by Master__Shake - 10/17/12 at 6:11pm
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post #73 of 79
10/17/12 at 6:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post


anyone have a direct quote from Nvidia?

Here you go:
Quote:
GK104

It's the code name used at Nvidia for the GPU found in the 680. The 4 at the end of it stands for a 'mid range' chip.

Of course you're not gonna get a direct quote with them saying "no we're giving you a smaller GPU than usual, one that's cheaper to manufacture than usual, one with a worse PCB than usual and one that gets crippled at high resolutions because of the mid range specs". That would be PR suicide.

Anyways, here's a screenshot of the NV control panel before launch on outdated drivers with old naming schemes with the 680 being read as a 670Ti.

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post #74 of 79
10/17/12 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

Anecdotal evidence
Anecdotal evidence
Anecdotal evidence
Anecdotal evidence
anyone have a direct quote from Nvidia?
Don't need a quote from Nvidia to prove something that can be understood with a basic understanding of GPU design.

It doesn't even matter if GK104 was supposed to end up in their 680 or not. GK104 at ~300mm² is still a wimpy chip, and a departure from their past 3 flagships running at 550mm²+.

Also, you don't know what an anecdote is.
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post #75 of 79
10/17/12 at 6:45pm
this quote from that article om TPU makes the most sense.
Quote:
If the GK104 was a true mid-size Nvidia would be making out like thiefs with a very profitable mid-range chip. Thats not what Nvidia has been saying in there quarterly reports and conference call to investors. They have been voicing concerns about production, yields and margins since there first report this year. That theory doesnt really reflect Nvidias own stance and it makes less sense given 2 quater straight AMD has gain market share in discrete graphic sector. Think thats more of a forum myth driven by fanboyism. Think about it. As a company your loosing market share and sales down 1million units sold form quater to quarter. You'd think it be the opposite if your selling a mid-range chip at great profit for the high-end market. If for some weird reason that would be true then its a horrible design and execution.
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post #76 of 79
10/17/12 at 6:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master__Shake View Post

this quote from that article om TPU makes the most sense.

first of all, link please. Sounds like extremely unprofessional to me if that's really from an article on TPU.

secondly; the statement "If the GK104 was a true mid-size" makes no sense, it's unquestionably true that GK104 is a mid sized die coming in at around 294mm^2. It's even smaller than their previous mid range cards have been.

And most important of all, if that was written at a time I think it was, NV wouldn't have published any profits or anything from a time period after GK104s launch. It's obvious that the reports from the time that the 680 was released will tell you that NV did very badly because the stuff in those reports will tell you a story of outdated 580s not selling against the 7900 series.
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post #77 of 79
10/18/12 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arni90 View Post

So assuming the K20 and GK110-based Geforce would follow the same pattern as the K10 and GTX 690:
2496 cores, 208 TMUs, and 40 ROPs @ 865+ MHz = +40% increase in shader/texturing, +6% increase in pixel fillrate
320-bit memory controller @ 6000MHz = 240GB/s
300W TDP
A card like that would have a hard time beating the GTX 680 by more than 15%, and would simply be unacceptable for 50% higher power consumption. Nvidia needs more ROP performance, 40 ROPs @ 865MHz simply wouldn't be a good increase.

A card like that would be more than 15% faster at resolutions that don't require more bandwidth. I would say 25% at 1080p. However, it should be compared to the GTX 680 and the same clock speed to make any meaningful comparison.

Furthermore, Nvidia doesn't need more ROPs because this is also a compute card and the workloads that are suited to the Tesla cards benefit from the shader cores and not the ROPs.
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post #78 of 79
10/18/12 at 4:32pm
Unlikely.

15%-30% likely.

Of course, I don't know more than anybody else. If this rumour hapenned to be true I don't believe you could have 1.5% the performance of a GTX680 while paying 1.5% more. Sounds like someone made all of this assuming the GTX680 is 400$. Too simple, logic and clear. I rarely seen performance scaling with price for high-end market. We will either see lower performance or a higher price point.

Anyway, this product isn't for me. I will gladly grab your GTX680s biggrin.gif
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post #79 of 79
10/19/12 at 4:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

A card like that would be more than 15% faster at resolutions that don't require more bandwidth. I would say 25% at 1080p. However, it should be compared to the GTX 680 and the same clock speed to make any meaningful comparison.
Furthermore, Nvidia doesn't need more ROPs because this is also a compute card and the workloads that are suited to the Tesla cards benefit from the shader cores and not the ROPs.
Nvidia's Geforce cards need more ROP performance. There's also no way a GK110-based card will reach GTX 680-speeds while retaining acceptable power consumption.
The GTX 680 and 670 is at this point mostly limited by ROP performance, AMD's ROPs are simply more powerful than Nvidia's ROPs which means they also need more memory bandwidth to achieve peak performance.
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