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[wccf] AMD Flagship Vishera FX-8350 Processor Would Cost Under $200 - Page 17

post #161 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Well.. you're flat out wrong.

I think both are important.

A comparison at stock speeds is important to gauge the chips probable success in the wider market.. For us, and when we are making personal purchases, obviously the performance at the general maximum overclock is going to be the important benchmark.

That said, this chip is a step in the right direction, but it's still just a mid-range product. I sincerely hope AMD don't leave the high end market indefinitely, which they appear to be planning. Currently Intel has no competition beyond their mid-rang chips, and as a result the release schedules and pricing for their SB-E/IB-E product lines are all kinds of terrible.

By the time IB-E is released chances are it will barely outperform Haswell, except in very well threaded apps. And the idea of not being able to buy a decent CPU without an appreciable percentage of the die wasted on an unused iGPU is infuriating in the extreme.
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post #162 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

I think both are important.
Of course they're both important. It's absolutely laughable that people are trying to claim that it's one way or the other. OC performance is going to mean absolutely nothing to someone that doesn't OC. Even people that do OC may not OC to the max — and if I had to guess, the majority of overclockers follow this. Its importance is completely subjective, but given the number of consumers that don't give a flying flock about OC performance, you're going to find that stock performance is more important in more cases.
Quote:
By the time IB-E is released chances are it will barely outperform Haswell, except in very well threaded apps. And the idea of not being able to buy a decent CPU without an appreciable percentage of the die wasted on an unused iGPU is infuriating in the extreme.
This I cannot agree with. It's like you think that the GPU is wasted die space, when the entire point of integrating it on die is to massively accelerate highly parallelizable workloads. It makes a huge difference. The problem is that software must be compiled to take advantage of that, and there's also the issue of some tasks not benefiting from the GPU at all. If you don't think APUs offer a large enough advantage over CPUs at this point in time, fine. What you have said is completely different. CPUs are great for some tasks, GPUs are great for some other tasks. The point of APUs is to not only provide the best of both worlds, but to exploit the integration. I think it's very likely that CPU and GPU only parts will be practically extinct in the future, excluding specialized applications.
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post #163 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeles View Post

This I cannot agree with. It's like you think that the GPU is wasted die space, when the entire point of integrating it on die is to massively accelerate highly parallelizable workloads. It makes a huge difference. The problem is that software must be compiled to take advantage of that, and there's also the issue of some tasks not benefiting from the GPU at all. If you don't think APUs offer a large enough advantage over CPUs at this point in time, fine. What you have said is completely different. CPUs are great for some tasks, GPUs are great for some other tasks. The point of APUs is to not only provide the best of both worlds, but to exploit the integration. I think it's very likely that CPU and GPU only parts will be practically extinct in the future, excluding specialized applications.

Hmm, I don't really see any advantage to on-die GPUs over using discrete GPUs. Even for GPGPU. Not unless they become much, much more powerful, or if they begin to be used on top of the discrete GPUs for specific tasks, which currently I do not believe they are? Although I may be mistaken.

My impression so far is that if you have for example a 3770k, and a discrete GPU, then no matter what you are doing that iGPU is going to be sitting there not doing anything.
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post #164 of 182
wouldn't Lucid MVP be rather an example once working correctly as that utilizes the IGPU on the Intels to increase proccessing power giving them more performance by offloading to the I2000/4000 than without Lucid MVP like a normal set up...? redface.gif
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post #165 of 182
Since I'm using my 8150 that I posted the CPU-Z validation with at the moment to post this with and it's been running fine without a single crash since doing that validation I'd consider it stable. I'll be getting a 8350 to play with most likely on Black Friday for use in my other 990FX Fatal!ty rig that currently has a 1100T @4ghz in it.

On a sidenote my two ASRock 990FX Professional Fatal!ty mobo's have been rock-solid for a year now without one problem. My Asus P8P67 Deluxe rev 3.0 that I use for my 5ghz i2600k has died three times in a shorter time period. Both the 8150 & i2600k running at nearly identical speeds using duplicate cooling setups (Corsair H100's with 4 Silverstone FM121's in push/pull at full speed) idle at under 70 degrees F. Under heavy loads however the i2600k will hit 140 F while the 8150 has never gone above 95 F. I'm curious to see what the 8350 will do considering that fact that in overclocking it's the luck of the draw when it comes to CPU performance.
post #166 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Hmm, I don't really see any advantage to on-die GPUs over using discrete GPUs. Even for GPGPU. Not unless they become much, much more powerful, or if they begin to be used on top of the discrete GPUs for specific tasks, which currently I do not believe they are? Although I may be mistaken.
My impression so far is that if you have for example a 3770k, and a discrete GPU, then no matter what you are doing that iGPU is going to be sitting there not doing anything.

HSA. Look it up. Communication between an iGPU and CPU is significantly faster than communication between a CPU and discrete GPU. HSA is going to provide a unified system for developers, where the CPU and iGPU appear as one unit instead of two separate, distinct units (which they currently are). Intel also seems to be trying to counter with its own version, although their roadmap has said nothing about complete CPU and iGPU integration like AMD is doing. Coding for a HSA-enabled unit should not be significantly different, if any different, from current coding for CPU only. All it might require is installation of some patches to help the APU recognize the fastest way to process a thread.
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post #167 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozne View Post

Theres already been 3 benches linked in this thread that has shown it. Look at game benchmark reviews that are not GPU limited (anything under 1080 resolution). You will see a massive difference. That difference is also not limited to single thread either. That is the core performance. Which means AMD is behind by 60% up to 4 threads even in multi threaded applications. It isn't until you get to 8 threads that AMD edges out the 2500k. It still is behind the i7's.
So it is behind a lot in single thread, barely pulls out multi thread with double the cores, while using almost double the watts.
People don't seem to realize, you can't just magically make a program use 8 threads. When you can thread the front end of an application, it is different. A web server can make a new thread for all incoming requests and keep them seperate. Not all programs can be threaded like that.

Well since for the past 4 years computer displays are usually 20" or larger. They are 1080P or close to it. So how do the benchmarks differ on programs run in 1080P. Stop your nonsense about low resolutions. All but a few are no longer using them.
post #168 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by NihilOC View Post

Hmm, I don't really see any advantage to on-die GPUs over using discrete GPUs. Even for GPGPU. Not unless they become much, much more powerful, or if they begin to be used on top of the discrete GPUs for specific tasks, which currently I do not believe they are? Although I may be mistaken.
My impression so far is that if you have for example a 3770k, and a discrete GPU, then no matter what you are doing that iGPU is going to be sitting there not doing anything.
Maxwell will feature an on-die ARM CPU, and I assume that AMD will be heading in a similar direction someday. Right now the IGP in the scenario you've provided would be powered down, but LudicLogix's Virtu is designed to make use of the IGP for example. How well it makes use of it is arguable, but it's an example of what can be done.
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post #169 of 182
I think some people took a little to much heart to what I said.
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post #170 of 182
Stock speed is absolutely vital, that goes without saying, the average consumer will have limited knowledge of cpu's or I should say a basic working knowledge in regards to frequency, cache size and number of cores as well as a few other factors like QPI/HP. However, it is no secret that the enthusiast segment targets overclockers, the demographic is for the extensively knowledgeable user, that is why you have "K" denoted cpu's and BE as well, it caters to overclockers with the unlocked multiplier. Obviously the average consumer will purchase these enthusiast parts simply because of the enticing performance and good reviews but for the most part, consumers will go for a 3770 vs 3770k for example because they will not know the real difference it makes in overclocking but they will notice the sligthly lower price which is what the average consumer is most enticed by.

AMD has realigned their targets and directed their efforts into more profitable ventures, they are taking the successful formula of IGPU and utilizing all the resources necessary to develop this technology into an industry standard platform. It would not be wise to stay i competition with intel in the enthusiast segment as they have fallen too far off to catch up considering how limited their resources are in comparison, assuming no buyouts which would be a very welcomed change in the desktop enthusiast segment, given the limited resources AMD has been a great innovator and has set so many standards in the industry, imagine if they had the backing of Samsung or IBM, although unlikely it would put AMD neck and neck with intel. Thsi sort of competition results in a win for all of us.

Vishera looks promising but any one who expects huge gains is missing the point, this is a revamped edition of BD with a few tweaks, they want yo keep intl guessing, that is the strategy until Steamroller is released, which looks to be a return for AMD in regards to high performance CPU's.
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