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post #101 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruennis View Post

Kind of late? Hardly...
It's been competitive since 12.7 beta (July). 12.11 beta simply changed the scheme of all things pushing the performance Tahiti cards beyond that of the competition. Factor in voltage control, superior overclockability, a larger bus width, more video memory, and affordability eliminates any comparison between 670/680 and 7950/7970. The latter is not only the better buy but the better performer(s).
Yes late, if AMD released these drivers back when 7900 series debuted. Effectively the same day, they would of sold way more cards then they will now. Most people grabbed the GTX 680 because its superiority in games. If these drivers were readily available more people would of jumped on the AMD bandwagon.
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post #102 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malo View Post

Guys, I am torn..... its my Bday soon and I'm getting alot of gift cards for tigerdirect... so the 6870's are going to be replaced... both cards have their advantages over eachother....
NVIDIA
- Physx
- higher stock clocks
- Less power consumption
AMD
- more vram
- overclocks higher
- Faster

they are pretty much the same price I think nvidia is 50$ more but thats really not an issue.... I going to sell my current cards for 200 so should be an easy sell so money isnt an issue.... please people sell me on one or the other
*edit*
I play alot of BF3, borderlands, and skyrim
thnx, malo

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post #103 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruennis View Post

Kind of late? Hardly...
It's been competitive since 12.7 beta (July). 12.11 beta simply changed the scheme of all things pushing the performance Tahiti cards beyond that of the competition. Factor in voltage control, superior overclockability, a larger bus width, more video memory, and affordability eliminates any comparison between 670/680 and 7950/7970. The latter is not only the better buy but the better performer(s).

I'd agree that by 12.7 beta all kinks aside AMD user were experiencing what Nvidia users for quite some time. Great gaming. Hard to dispute the difference now with 12.11 beta in performance currently but nothing that drivers from either side can change. We've all learned It doesn't stop here. wink.gif The real nail in the coffin on choice right now is the indisputable pricing difference.

I doubt Nvidia is coming down on pricing either because it wasn't their style last year and I just don't see it now in response when new products are approximately 3 months away. They'll probably just keep pricing the way it is until releasing the 384 bit monster GK110.

Since switching to Nvidia when the 580 released I've not seen Nvidia respond to AMD's lowering pricing by lowering theirs. The 680 was decided to be priced at $500 a long time before AMD asked for $550 for the 7970 because they could with no competition. Nvidia just fell into the price / performance king on the 680 release by accident. AMD responded eventually with lowering pricing. It's hard to recommend a 680 right now even though it's capable of handling current games until either a pricing response or greater performance response to justify the extra cost by Nvidia is met. redface.gif
post #104 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmonger View Post

Yes late, if AMD released these drivers back when 7900 series debuted. Effectively the same day, they would of sold way more cards then they will now. Most people grabbed the GTX 680 because its superiority in games. If these drivers were readily available more people would of jumped on the AMD bandwagon.

Would not have made a difference. Keep in mind Kepler did not arrive until early Q2 and suffered from supply constraint but even then these two factors didn't help 7900 sales did they? More people simply prefer Nvidia over AMD.

From a performance standpoint; January to March was dominated by Tahiti with Kepler absent leaving the 580 as the lone competitor from Nvidia. April to July was largely dominated by Kepler. July to October proved to be competitive with the release 12.7 beta and onward. And now with 12.11 beta, Tahiti is unquestionably the superior performer. I do not foresee Nvidia ousting AMD now until the next generation.
Edited by Bruennis - 11/7/12 at 12:59pm
post #105 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruennis View Post

Would not have made a difference. Keep in mind Kepler did not arrive until early Q2 and suffered from supply constraint but even then these two factors didn't help 7900 series Q1 sales did they? More people simply prefer Nvidia over AMD.
From a performance standpoint; January to March was dominated by Tahiti with Kepler absent leaving the 580 as the lone competitor from the Nvidia. April to July was largely dominated by Kepler. July to October proved to be competitive with the release 12.7 beta and onward. And now with 12.11 beta, Tahiti is unquestionably the superior performer. I do not foresee Nvidia ousting AMD now until the release of Sea Islands.
Kelper was proven faster in benchmarking at debut, this is more then enough to post pone millions of purchases. If the 7970 came out of the gate faster then the GTX 680 in most of today's modern games. I think a large margin of them wouldn't of waited on production. Now that 12.11 is out and bringing new life to Tahiti, I don't see any reason for a gamer to go Nvidia. Unless they do CUDA work or enjoy PhysX benefits. At a price/performance perspective, anyone who strictly does gaming Tahiti is where its at.
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post #106 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmonger View Post

Kelper was proven faster in benchmarking at debut
Southern Islands released before Keplar, if I am not mistaken.
Keplar was faster for the better part of this year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmonger View Post

, I don't see any reason for a gamer to go Nvidia. Unless they do CUDA work or enjoy PhysX benefits. At a price/performance perspective, anyone who strictly does gaming Tahiti is where its at.
I see a lot of new enthusiasts getting all excited or offering consumer advice based on this one driver release, displaying their lack of experience within their comments.
If you have been doing this as long as I have (17 years) you will start to learn and pickup on what makes a GPU better.
Its not just what shows up on a chart, those results don't show you how the game truly feels and plays.

If you look at just the last 5 years, AMD's reputation isn't on the same page as Nvidia.
They have had hundreds of bugs/glitches/issues and stability problems with their driver sets (yes Nvidia has had some, but not nearly as many or severe) and many owners of both companies have confessed about the Radeons 'spiky' performance, many on this forum as well, and well respected posters.
It won't show up on a chart, but there is more to raw performance then min and max frames, and OC headroom.

For example, my 6970 was just as fast as my 570 on paper, and on benchmarks.
But for games, the 570 was smoother and didn't 'jump around' as much.
Both hit around a P6000 3DMark11 on my rig, but the 570 just felt stronger and smoother, although my Radeon was just as fast if not a tad faster.
Quality of drivers/hardware is more then just raw top end performance or overclock ability. It's how smooth it looks and feels.

I had about 15 quotes from users on here talking about the same thing but that was months ago now and in the last couple of driver sets AMD has made great strides to eliminate issues.
But to conclude, it will take years of solid hardware and software from AMD to truly rival Nvidia like they want.
Steams recent poll showed the majority game with Nvidia, and if AMD want to change that they need to keep on keeping on.

I will say, they have did much better on this GPU battle then any of the recent ones.
The ultimate experience with full FXAA, PhysX, folding etc can only still be had with GTX's, and if the performance crown has been slighty taken by AMD, so be it...thats only one category of several.
Edited by amstech - 11/7/12 at 3:30pm
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post #107 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmonger View Post

Kelper was proven faster in benchmarking at debut, this is more then enough to post pone millions of purchases. If the 7970 came out of the gate faster then the GTX 680 in most of today's modern games. I think a large margin of them wouldn't of waited on production. Now that 12.11 is out and bringing new life to Tahiti, I don't see any reason for a gamer to go Nvidia. Unless they do CUDA work or enjoy PhysX benefits. At a price/performance perspective, anyone who strictly does gaming Tahiti is where its at.

Kepler was faster at debut but it didn't debut until late March therefore millions would not have known of its performance advantage before its launch or before the launch of Tahiti(Late December 2011). Even if Tahiti cards were faster from the get-go, I do not think AMD would have increased market share to any significant degree simply because Nvidia is more popular between the two. And it's been this way for a long time...
post #108 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by amstech View Post

Southern Islands released before Keplar, if I am not mistaken.
Keplar was faster for the better part of this year.
I see a lot of new enthusiasts getting all excited or offering consumer advice based on this one driver release, displaying their lack of experience within their comments.
If you have been doing this as long as I have (17 years) you will start to learn and pickup on what makes a GPU better.
Its not just what shows up on a chart, those results don't show you how the game truly feels and plays.
If you look at just the last 5 years, AMD's reputation isn't on the same page as Nvidia.
They have had hundreds of bugs/glitches/issues and stability problems with their driver sets (yes Nvidia has had some, but not nearly as many or severe) and many owners of both companies have confessed about the Radeons 'spiky' performance, many on this forum as well, and well respected posters.
It won't show up on a chart, but there is more to raw performance then min and max frames, and OC headroom.
For example, my 6970 was just as fast as my 570 on paper, and on benchmarks.
But for games, the 570 was smoother and didn't 'jump around' as much.
Both hit around a P6000 3DMark11 on my rig, but the 570 just felt stronger and smoother, although my Radeon was just as fast if not a tad faster.
Quality of drivers/hardware is more then just raw top end performance or overclock ability. It's how smooth it looks and feels.
I had about 15 quotes from users on here talking about the same thing but that was months ago now and in the last couple of driver sets AMD has made great strides to eliminate issues.
But to conclude, it will take years of solid hardware and software from AMD to truly rival Nvidia like they want.
Steams recent poll showed the majority game with Nvidia, and if AMD want to change that they need to keep on keeping on.
I will say, they have did much better on this GPU battle then any of the recent ones.
The ultimate experience with full FXAA, PhysX, folding etc can only still be had with GTX's, and if the performance crown has been slightly taken by AMD, so be it...thats only one category of several.
All it takes is one driver release to push one card over another. We all know how notorious AMD is when it comes to drivers. You can leave that "trust me I have been doing this for 2000 years" attitude at the door as its quite foolish here (you could of been doing it for 30 years, and still don't know more then me). Obviously you have no clue how important drivers are when it comes to any hardware. I think the 12.11 driver explains itself, I doubt you have ever written a driver. As for the rest of your post I canned it, I don't like responding to posts that derail the thread. The discussion is why chose GTX 680 over HD 7970 in today's market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruennis View Post

Kepler was faster at debut but it didn't debut until late March therefore millions would not have known of its performance advantage before its launch or before the launch of Tahiti(Late December 2011). Even if Tahiti cards were faster from the get-go, I do not think AMD would have increased market share to any significant degree simply because Nvidia is more popular between the two. And it's been this way for a long time...
Now that you are agreeing with me, Nvidia was the first out of the gate. Obviously the re-occurring trend is Nvidia having better performance among its flashship then AMD in gaming benchmarks. But, what I am suggesting is if AMD did launch 12.11 on the same day as Tahiti release. Then we could very well see a larger AMD market among enthusiasts this time around.
Edited by Warmonger - 11/7/12 at 9:18pm
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post #109 of 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by amstech View Post

If you have been doing this as long as I have (17 years) you will start to learn and pickup on what makes a GPU better.

Kids these days... rolleyes.gif.. biggrin.gif

I got my first computer in 1984, 28 years ago. Were you born? biggrin.gif

I had ALOT of GPUs over all those years. Got Nvidia cards from the first they they sold one. And I had my share of problems with both AMD AND Nvidia cards over the years.

But I like doing extreme high-end gaming, with high-end graphics and high-end PC (playing at 7680X1600 3X30'' every day), and AMD alone can help me do this properly. 4X 7970 Quad-Fire is MUCH "smoother" (stupid word, but Nvidia's fans like to use that word so much... so I had to use it) at 7680X1600 then 4X680 Quad-SLI. Memory bandwidth...

With 12.11 beta, everything is ''smooth'' like butte. Everything is working fine. Today, the 7970 is a MUCH better buy then the 680.
Edited by Levesque - 11/8/12 at 5:04am
    
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post #110 of 293
looking at the current price of 7970 nd those latest AMD drivers.........7970 is a better buy in every single way
     
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