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[Nature] Planet found in closest neighbour system Alpha Centauri. - Page 16

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

So you believe in the Drake Equation, but you don't think these beings (which could be an innumerable amount because of the Drake Equation) have made their presence here on Earth. Even though many ancient texts and documents prove that they have been here visiting since the dawn of man. Since they have been visiting since the beginning of time; what would make them suddenly stop? Also, my favorite part, anyone who possibly makes contact with these beings is mentally unstable...
If that isn't the definition of ignorance then I don't know what else to say.

Drake equation is pretty good educated guess - however according to the Drake equation the probability that the alien civilization would be within our reaching distance during the time we exist as a civilization capable of space flight is practically non existent. During the past approx century we have had technology making us detectable from the distance (the radio n stuff) the information has reached only a handful of the closest stars, 2000 years from now the information has still reached only a very minor amount of stars within our galaxy and take a look back for a second and observe the number of civilizations that have risen and fallen over the past couple of millenia. All we know we might be again by that time in the dark ages bcos oil ran out and wars following that pushed us back into the stone age. So the conclusion is that probability that spacefaring civilization exists at the same time as us within some hundred lightyears is nonexistent by all practical purposes.

As far as ancient texts "proving" aliens go - I have not read these, but without an alien skeleton to dig up and run an DNA analysis on to prove its not the result of evolution on Earth I would say the texts are as convincing as other old texts telling me about elves and ice giants and dragons flying and spitting fire. So the authors of these texts had most likely some mental issues and very good imagination. Same as hillbillys fantasising being probed by lil green man and then running around the world telling everyone who glances at their way how awful it is that these immensenly powerful alien civilizations that spend the energy needed to come all the way to Earth to violate them and their cows. Yeah sure.
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post #152 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by alcal View Post

That being said, we're pretty close to being right. Physics doesn't seem to be too far off from unifying all of the physical forces (gravitational, electromagnetic, strong nuclear and weak nuclear) under one principle which would govern basically all physical interactions. I would make a totally uneducated wager that in most of our lifetimes, we will know for sure if the current theories are feasible as a total model of the universe or if we are way off the mark, but much of our current science is so well tested that it is almost impossible for much of it to be wrong.
The embarrassing part is that we can only observe less than 10% of the matter in the universe. We have no clue what to think of the other 90+%
I think I would phrase it a little differently, and say that many things that are wrong are right enough to still be quite useful. Newtonian Calculus vs. Quantum Mathematics is a great example. Newtonian Calculus has gotten us to the moon and helped us harness the atom. Even though it is not perfect, it is still incredibly useful. A Grand Unified Theory would prove the Standard Model wrong, yet the Standard Model has gotten us to where we are now.
We are now at the point where we can do quite a bit even with inaccurate models from over 100 years ago. That doesn't make us pretty close to being right. It shows how well science has worked at making us less wrong.
It may be a semantic difference, but I would argue it is an important one in order to keep our perspective.
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post #153 of 197
BiG StroOnZ, while I brought up Nibiru in jest, I must confess that ancient documents are a bit of a hobby of mine. I find most of the references ascribed to aliens to be the result of misidentification of fossils as giant humans combined with mythology attached to said fossils. Surely if you are well studied on the subject you are familiar with this theory and the archaeological documentation that supports it. If such a theory does not fit Ockham's Razor, what makes you think extraterrestrial visitation does?
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post #154 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post

The assumptions you make are ... amazing. lachen.gif
Your 'straw man' antics are funny. So are the mass assumptions. No drugs? No alcohol? Awe man, no desire to experiment?
Keep up the good rhetoric much ado about nothing! We're all having a great laugh! lachen.gif
(EDIT)
WAIT - WAIT - Are you that guy from 'Ancient Aliens'? You are AREN'T YOU?! thinking.gif

You seem to change your tune quite rapidly. You make seriously judgmental statements, and then the next second you act as if you never said anything remotely close to what you replied. Then you continue on your straw man path ignoring everything said because you have nothing left in you to say other than you want to make it clear that you're climbing up on your invisible high horse. Try not to climb too high, because when you're knocked down to the bottom, trust me it's going to suck.

The only rhetoric present is your incessant babbling replies that continually lack more and more substance as you reply more. You've seem to have run out of places to turn to, so the only thing left is making jokes. Which I expect out of someone like yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Drake equation is pretty good educated guess - however according to the Drake equation the probability that the alien civilization would be within our reaching distance during the time we exist as a civilization capable of space flight is practically non existent. During the past approx century we have had technology making us detectable from the distance (the radio n stuff) the information has reached only a handful of the closest stars, 2000 years from now the information has still reached only a very minor amount of stars within our galaxy and take a look back for a second and observe the number of civilizations that have risen and fallen over the past couple of millenia. All we know we might be again by that time in the dark ages bcos oil ran out and wars following that pushed us back into the stone age. So the conclusion is that probability that spacefaring civilization exists at the same time as us within some hundred lightyears is nonexistent by all practical purposes.
As far as ancient texts "proving" aliens go - I have not read these, but without an alien skeleton to dig up and run an DNA analysis on to prove its not the result of evolution on Earth I would say the texts are as convincing as other old texts telling me about elves and ice giants and dragons flying and spitting fire. So the authors of these texts had most likely some mental issues and very good imagination. Same as hillbillys fantasising being probed by lil green man and then running around the world telling everyone who glances at their way how awful it is that these immensenly powerful alien civilizations that spend the energy needed to come all the way to Earth to violate them and their cows. Yeah sure.

That's where you only use the Drake Equation as something to give you an idea, but taking it as a fact and the end all be all of whether or not intelligent life with space travel capabilities are out there is just nonsensical. Our understanding of things is very small. Our intelligence level whether we'd like to believe it or not is not as advanced as we think it is.

The probability of a space faring civilization existing at the same time of us is only non existent based on our current models. That doesn't mean they aren't or haven't visited or have been visiting. It just means to the mainstream science world, they can't believe it as possible because of how their scientific models work.

The problem is to chalk up these documents as merely fantasy or as we call "mythology" is very narrow-minded. These myths span across many civilizations and many different times all across the world. They have got to mean something. To call them wild imaginative stories and that those people of that era had severe mental issues is just absurd. Your understanding of even abductions and alien contact is so cut and dry it's ridiculous. Little Green Men probing Hillbillys? Seriously? That's your argument against the possibility. Wow you really need to start doing some more research then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

BiG StroOnZ, while I brought up Nibiru in jest, I must confess that ancient documents are a bit of a hobby of mine. I find most of the references ascribed to aliens to be the result of misidentification of fossils as giant humans combined with mythology attached to said fossils. Surely if you are well studied on the subject you are familiar with this theory and the archaeological documentation that supports it. If such a theory does not fit Ockham's Razor, what makes you think extraterrestrial visitation does?

I've seen the Giant Fossils before, the ones specifically regarded as Nephilim and I'm pretty sure they were found to be fakes. However this is not the type of evidence that I'm talking about. I'm talking about documents, ancient writings, inscriptions, written books like for instance the Mahabharata which talks of space crafts and "Gods" (most likely extra terrestrials with technology) flying around in said vehicles. The problem with using Ockham's Razor on extraterrestrial visitation is it's too complex because it involves a great span of knowledge covering many different subjects to understand. It's just not that simple.
Edited by BiG StroOnZ - 10/22/12 at 2:58am
post #155 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

There was once a planet called Tiamat that lied between Mars and Jupiter. Sumerian texts say that Tiamat was struck by another large planet, that moved it into its present orbit, and also created the the Asteroid Belt and Earth's Moon. The planet known as Marduk or to the Sumerians, "Nibiru" came into the solar system on its 3,600 year clockwise elliptical course, and struck Tiamat which was moving in its ordained counterclockwise orbit. One of Marduk's satellites struck Tiamat first, followed by two more of Marduk's moons. Then Marduk itself, struck Tiamat, smashing one half of the planet into pieces, which became what the Sumerians called the Great Band (the Asteroid Belt).

This is nonsense.

Even if the rough sequence of events you describe was plausible (and it's not) the minimal time required after such events to arrive at the solar system's present configuration is many orders of magnitude longer than humans have existed. The Sumerians most certainly could not have observed such events, even if they were around to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

You do realize all of science is compromised of theories, not facts.

You can't even arrive at a scientific theory without a great deal of factual proof. If it hasn't been proven with facts, it's still a hypothesis, at best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

Even though many ancient texts and documents prove that they have been here visiting since the dawn of man.

There is nothing remotely close to proof of the existence of extraterrestrial civilization, much less human contact with it.

It's an enormous stretch to reach your conclusions from the information available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

for instance the Mahabharata which talks of space crafts and "Gods" (most likely extra terrestrials with technology) flying around in said vehicles.

This exactly the sort of unfounded conclusions and wild assumptions I'm speaking of.
Edited by Blameless - 10/22/12 at 3:56am
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post #156 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

That's where you only use the Drake Equation as something to give you an idea, but taking it as a fact and the end all be all of whether or not intelligent life with space travel capabilities are out there is just nonsensical. Our understanding of things is very small. Our intelligence level whether we'd like to believe it or not is not as advanced as we think it is.
The probability of a space faring civilization existing at the same time of us is only non existent based on our current models. That doesn't mean they aren't or haven't visited or have been visiting. It just means to the mainstream science world, they can't believe it as possible because of how their scientific models work.
The problem is to chalk up these documents as merely fantasy or as we call "mythology" is very narrow-minded. These myths span across many civilizations and many different times all across the world. They have got to mean something. To call them wild imaginative stories and that those people of that era had severe mental issues is just absurd. Your understanding of even abductions and alien contact is so cut and dry it's ridiculous. Little Green Men probing Hillbillys? Seriously? That's your argument against the possibility. Wow you really need to start doing some more research then.

As stated Drake equation is a good educated guess. If we would have to go by hard cold facts we would have to say that life does not exist outside Earth as we have not observed it outside Earth. As far as Science goes I am very much a mainstream science guy. I'm physicist you see.
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post #157 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post

Not sure if delusional....
lachen.gif
You think I'm trying to 'make it appear that you were joking to make yourself (myself) look better'? lachen.gif
It's quite clear I'm not the one who looks silly here. thumb.gif

More straw man arguments. Call someone a name, to make it appear you are better than them. Yet, let's say were not trying to make it appear we're better than them. More brilliance at its finest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post

You're delusional.
I've seen the research on alien "proof" in ancient societies. They offer as much proof as the Bible offers proof of a god, which is to say, none whatsoever.
Do I believe aliens exist? Yes.
Have they been to Earth? Maybe.
Have they interfered with human history or revealed themselves to us? I see no proof either way, even with all of the supposed evidence. There's a large difference between hearsay, eye witnesses, or ancient writings that can be construed as "proof" (amongst other things) and reliably reproducible evidence and evidence that can be verified from multiple sources and through various methods, that are almost indeniable. You seem to have trouble distinguishing between the two types. Don't feel too bad, you and about 70% of the rest of the population has the same problem.

Delusional? Why? Because I know and understand something better than you. So that automatically makes me delusional because I have more knowledge on the subject than you do? Interesting logic really.

You've seen the research on aliens in ancient societies, but you continue to deny them as proof. That's quite interesting really. Makes sense. They offer plenty of proof because they are spread across the world from many different civilizations. If that's not proof then I don't know what to tell you except you need an Alien to punch you in the face and tell you they've always been here to believe it.

So even with the proposed evidence you don't see it as proof. Again more logic at its finest. Why should I feel bad? You're someone who doesn't change their beliefs to fit the facts, sorry but that's insane. You and about 80% of the population have this problem. They don't change their beliefs to fit the facts. They find the facts to fit their beliefs. You seem to have a problem with multiple resources making the same claim as being unreliable. That's your fault.

So the scientific community, in almost it's entirety, considers this "evidence" to be inconclusive, but you're right because you say you are?

Do you even hear yourself?
Quote:
Because I know and understand something better than you.

I already said that I've done the research, so what gives you the impression that you understand something better than I do?

So, what's more likely, that everyone disagrees with you because you're so much smarter than them, or that they know what you're talking about and still think you're wrong?

Maybe you should look up exactly what delusional means, you fit the bill pretty well right now.
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post #158 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiG StroOnZ View Post

The problem is to chalk up these documents as merely fantasy or as we call "mythology" is very narrow-minded. These myths span across many civilizations and many different times all across the world. They have got to mean something. To call them wild imaginative stories and that those people of that era had severe mental issues is just absurd. Your understanding of even abductions and alien contact is so cut and dry it's ridiculous..
And they say a crow stole the sun and out-came the moon.
post #159 of 197
I woul like to say, that i cannot believe I just read through the last 40 Posts lol... And yall thought I had some Fantastical ideas and hypotheses..

This was like listening to Whats his name talk about Scientology

Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSMK View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
The planets as we know them are not as they seem. The '9' (referring to pre-dwarf planet Pluto days) planets as you see and know them are in fact a reflection of the same cosmic planet. What what you believe is Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and of course Pluto, are actually the same planet as Earth. It's just that you see them in differing times of their life. Mercury is as it was in the beginning, and Venus is just a little longer away, and so on and so on. Jupiter is as it will be after several collisions. The largest collision is actually what destroyed the 'Moon' creating the 'Asteroid Belt' in that time frame, just beyond Mars. Mars is what Earth will be as soon as we scrub all the life from it. From there another large collision with a yet unknown body entering the solar system will collide with Mars and create a mass spinning reminiscent of the early days of our star providing the required energy for Jupiter to take it's form in that period. And then it will see minor collisions creating the 'moons' of 'Saturn' as it actually turns into Saturn, then Uranus, then Neptune, and finally a cold dead rock - Pluto .... or Eris. Not quite sure which one is Earth at that point.
This process takes millions of eons but what we see as time from our viewpoint is actually skewed due to distortions from dark matter (a substance totally similar to mass yet counter-balancing mass in an equally opposite way) and what will be known as Cosmic-Quantic-Massless-Matter, or what is referred to as 'dark energy' today.
So really - what you see in the sky is just a distortion of time. You already know what the planet was like when it was close to the Sun and now you'll know what it'll be like in a few eons. That 'Bob' character is totally bogus, unlike my claim. Which is totally legit.
And if you believe yourself to offer a 'choice' on the topic, you're rather poor avocation that people must 'believe' it and get the conveyed 'message' is little more than what cults operate on. C'mon dude. Just c'mon. Have an open mind. Just don't push what you believe is 'true'.


LoLmyGod! if I had been skimming through and read this Id have to call you a crackpot, but I understand how you were using this ^.^

Actually i would like to submit that if at all possible in this theory, that it would actually go the other way around, where earth started out as a cold Dead Rock. as time goes by the Suns gravitational pull brings us closer, we run into some dust and gas clouds to become a Gas Giant, until a massive collision infuses Iron to the core, and blows away the Gasses.

yah, Im leaving a few planets out of this, because its complete BS anyway thumb.gif but its the only way I could make sense of it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

So... You say they haven't stopped (assuming they started to begin with), but they haven't made their presence widely known, sticking instead to out-of-focus photographs, inconclusive videos, etc., like Bigfoot and Nessy. Except they're apparently greatly ahead of us in technology, so they could make their presence be known if they wanted, or they could remain unseen if they wanted. So you're saying they WANT to only be seen by a couple people. Doesn't make much sense to me.
Also they can't have been visiting since the beginning of time. There weren't even atoms at the beginning of time.

You have a Pony for an Avy, Your Argument is Invalid! (I would rather say, that time has existed Long before, and long after, what we have imagined)

Ok so there are deffinitely Massively Old depictions of Sky beings, sky gods, sky travelers etc.

but Drawings in a Cave is far from Fact or Proof Stroonz.. While I also indulge in the fantasy that the Ancient Aliens guy is right, we have to remember that just because he says it is, doesnt mean it is.

Im a Sagan kind of guy, I completely believe that there are intirely too many variables to say without a doubt that there have never been visits past and present, but No matter what anyone says or shows me, I wont count it as a Fact to prove or disprove it.




So now I feel it is time fo rme to enter a Crockpot Idea lol

the Big Bang is a Result of the Big Crunch and this has happened infinitely over and over again ;p

Dark Energy may be Currently Pushing us all away faster and faster but what we didnt know is that there IS and Edge of the Universe lol, and that Edge, is like the Surrounding Screen of the old Atari Asteroid Game, If objects exist Left side, it re-enter same speed on the right side.

So if All Galaxies Blew out from one Central Point, Blowing out like a Baloon, they will eventually come Streaking Back to the Center in the complete opposite side of where they started!

Wouldnt that be nifty.

Again, this is just a Crockpot example, which fortunately for me really cant be disproven but it can easily be discredited lol
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post #160 of 197
@StormX2

You're right, I have to update my theory. I knew I missed something - I had it backwards! lachen.gif

THANKS! Re-writing my scientific submission papers today, can't way to see what the journals think after it's accepted! I might get a Nobel!!

Silly science... always reforming and f actualizing theories... how insane! Right?! I mean right?!
    
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