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[Nature] Planet found in closest neighbour system Alpha Centauri. - Page 7

post #61 of 197
Science that was shown to be true in the domains that it was tested in, will continue to be true in those domains. And will not be proven wrong, because it has already been proven right. That will remain the case until the laws of physics magically change.

Having said that, our understanding of our universe is limited, and we might discover things that we did not think were possible, or learn to utilize loop holes in ways that we were unaware of being possible, achieving seemingly impossible things. That however does not change the possibilities and impossibilities of our universe, only our understanding of it. So, yeah, there definitely has to be impossible things, just based on the fact that somethings are possible. We just don't have absolute knowledge of what they are yet. And there's no reason to think the universe will keep surprising us indefinitely, just because it has done so sometimes in the past. The universe isn't infinitely complex. It just might be that we will never figure out a way to travel faster than light, which is a huge bummer. I surely don't hope so, but maybe that's just the way it is.
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post #62 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfroth View Post

Using the most experiemental of ion drives that are in the making, and if one can theoretically reach Mars in 39 days using those engines we have a speed of...

39 days (24 hours) = 936 hours

Mars at it's closest to Earth is roughly 34 million miles (sorry I'm American), which we assume one would launch said craft at that distance.

34,000,000 / 936 hours = 36324.79 miles mph

Speed of light is 186,000 miles per SECOND

186,000 miles (60 seconds) = 11,160,000 miles per minute

11,160,000 miles (60 minutes) = 669,600,000 miles per hour

669,600,000 miles (24 hours) = 16,070,400,000 miles per day

16,070,400,000 miles (365 days) = 5,865,696,000,000 miles per year = 1 light year

5,865,696,000,000 miles per year (4.366 light years [the distance to Alpha Centauri]) = 25,609,628,736,000 miles to Alpha Centauri

25,609,628,736,000 miles / 36324.79 miles per hour (fastest expierimental ion engines) = 705,017,943.2834 hours to reach Alpha Centauri

705,017,943.2834 hours / 24 hours = 29375747.6368 days

29,375,747.6368 days / 365 days = 80,481.5004 years

With the fastest engines we currently have been able to begin to build, it will take one 80,481.5 years to get to Alpha Centauri

These propulsion systems travel at a speed of 10.09 miles per second which is 0.00005425% the speed of light just for a comparison of how close to the speed of light our technology is not.

Just to correct some bad math and assumptions I've seen in this thread so far.

Sorry 80,536.5 years to reach Alpha centauri because I didn't account for leap years.. in which this case is a alot. 55 extra years or so... My bad

You didn't account for time from the observer.

Traveler's Time = Observed Time * (1 - (velocity^2 / c^2)) ^ (-0.5), while 0.00005425c is slow, it does have relativistic velocity, length contraction and time dilation.
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post #63 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Flight was also impossible, the world was flat and there was no way to get to the moon.
You want to talk about possibility? Explain how the Egyptians managed to carve granite without leaving any machine tool marks (something we can't do) or how they were able to build the pyramid of Giza with a precision we can't match with lasers.
I am uncertain of number 2, but once we have managed to create a warp drive (theoretically possible) we will know the answer.
I suggest you look into the internal physics of a star to answer number 3 because the core of stars violate quite a few 'laws' of nature as far as physicists are concerned. Also black holes violate the laws of physics, as they allow certain radiation and light to escape.
Just because we haven't discovered it yet doesn't mean it's impossible, history has taught that everything that is impossible will be made possible one day.

What Fortunex said-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

That sounds like a complete load to me. proof.gif
Which laws do the cores of stars violate? And black holes?
    
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post #64 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfroth View Post

Using the most experiemental of ion drives that are in the making, and if one can theoretically reach Mars in 39 days using those engines we have a speed of...

39 days (24 hours) = 936 hours

Mars at it's closest to Earth is roughly 34 million miles (sorry I'm American), which we assume one would launch said craft at that distance.

34,000,000 / 936 hours = 36324.79 miles mph

Speed of light is 186,000 miles per SECOND

186,000 miles (60 seconds) = 11,160,000 miles per minute

11,160,000 miles (60 minutes) = 669,600,000 miles per hour

669,600,000 miles (24 hours) = 16,070,400,000 miles per day

16,070,400,000 miles (365 days) = 5,865,696,000,000 miles per year = 1 light year

5,865,696,000,000 miles per year (4.366 light years [the distance to Alpha Centauri]) = 25,609,628,736,000 miles to Alpha Centauri

25,609,628,736,000 miles / 36324.79 miles per hour (fastest expierimental ion engines) = 705,017,943.2834 hours to reach Alpha Centauri

705,017,943.2834 hours / 24 hours = 29375747.6368 days

29,375,747.6368 days / 365 days = 80,481.5004 years

With the fastest engines we currently have been able to begin to build, it will take one 80,481.5 years to get to Alpha Centauri

These propulsion systems travel at a speed of 10.09 miles per second which is 0.00005425% the speed of light just for a comparison of how close to the speed of light our technology is not.

Just to correct some bad math and assumptions I've seen in this thread so far.

Sorry 80,536.5 years to reach Alpha centauri because I didn't account for leap years.. in which this case is a alot. 55 extra years or so... My bad

An ion drive would continue accelerating for a long time, given it has a fuel source, so I'm sure the craft would continue accelerating for a long time. I'd guess we could get there in 20,000 years, which is still absolutely unreasonable. Without a propulsion breakthrough or a way to teleport or travel between two points faster than a straight line, I don't see it happening.
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post #65 of 197
Well - as far as interstellar travel goes I don't think we will be sending humans out there, there is really not a huge point unless you really get down into "lets colonize space" business in which case you would most likely hollow out an asteroid, get somekind of setup in there which can remain fully self sufficient for million+ years, put some humans in it and send it towards its destination. However, considering how even currently the NASA is facing budget cuts that will make any kind of new space exploration questionable for it I just dont think that humanity is it in it to get its act togehter for long enough to pull off a project of such magnitude. We are far too good at making war against each other to be able to consentrate on somekind of megaproject like colonizing space in a consistent enough manner to pull it off.

Robots are far more reliable over such intervals of space and time. I just hope that whoever is doing the sending has enough brains to put along a nice large nuke to be used if the robot thinks its about to be noticed by any kind of intelligent life. You see - I think its naive to assume that if we encounter little green men they would be particularly peaceful. Evolution does not favor such attitude as far as being "top of the foodchain" goes. More likely these would be quite like humans (in attitude) and being in the shoes of the "natives" when something technologically advanced notices you might not be the best option in life.
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post #66 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

You didn't account for time from the observer.
Traveler's Time = Observed Time * (1 - (velocity^2 / c^2)) ^ (-0.5), while 0.00005425c is slow, it does have relativistic velocity, length contraction and time dilation.

Wouldn't really matter for observers on Earth it will still be 80,000+ years for a craft to reach the star. But what the hell...

80,536.5 years x 31536000 seconds/yr = 2,539,799,064,000 seconds (1-{10.09 miles persond^2 / 0.00005425[186000 miles per second]} ^ {-.5}) =

2,539,799,064,000 x 1- [{(1,740,194,437,558.7266941 seconds / 60) / 60}/24]/365 =

55,332.8 years for the the observer traveling to Alpha Centauri I'm probably off by a few years for this number given the significant figures iused

80,536.5 years for the observers on Earth.

and we could really add + 4.336 years just to recieve any data from the mission.Or the mission to receive any instructions from Earth. I ight be a few years off because I got lazy with my significant figures at one point but it's close enough.
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post #67 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky_Chimp View Post

Laws are made to be broken or amended, even laws of nature/physics. Acting as though they're absolute is what's restricted us this whole time, and it continues to restrict us. It's all a matter of perspective and process. wink.gif

I think you are misunderstanding me by mixing up the theory describing the laws of nature and the underlying fundamental properties of the universe which are the "laws of nature". These fundamental properties exist regardless of our understanding of them. When you fly you do not violate the gravity, for example, you are utilizing other effects which also exist under the same natural laws and happen to be greater in magnitude under the circumanstances which allow you to fly. You can not violate the underlying fundamental properties of the universe as you are existing within the same universe.

Tautology.

"Things that can't be changed, can't be changed."
post #68 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfroth View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

You didn't account for time from the observer.
Traveler's Time = Observed Time * (1 - (velocity^2 / c^2)) ^ (-0.5), while 0.00005425c is slow, it does have relativistic velocity, length contraction and time dilation.

Wouldn't really matter for observers on Earth it will still be 80,000+ years for a craft to reach the star. But what the hell...

80,536.5 years x 31536000 seconds/yr = 2,539,799,064,000 seconds (1-{10.09 miles persond^2 / 0.00005425[186000 miles per second]} ^ {-.5}) =

2,539,799,064,000 x 1- [{(1,740,194,437,558.7266941 seconds / 60) / 60}/24]/365 =

55,332.8 years for the the observer traveling to Alpha Centauri I'm probably off by a few years for this number given the significant figures iused

80,536.5 years for the observers on Earth.

and we could really add + 4.336 years just to recieve any data from the mission.Or the mission to receive any instructions from Earth. I ight be a few years off because I got lazy with my significant figures at one point but it's close enough.

You got the calculations wrong, Observed Time * (1 - (velocity^2 / c^2)) ^ (-0.5) = 80536.5 years * (1-(0.00005425)^2)^(-0.5) = 80536.49988 years

You can pretty much ignore relativity for the general purpose here.
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post #69 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post

I did read it in its entirety, and I want the 20 minutes of my life that I spent doing it back.
You know, I can write whatever I want and publish it on the Internet too. If I'm a decent writer who can string together a story that's at least creative, like the one provided, even better. But unfortunately all that has absolutely no bearing on the actual truth of the claims being made. I'm not arrogant, just realistic.

You're lying. This is how I know. First off, there is no way that you have read that in 20 minutes. Everyone I know who has read it (and I'm talking about hundreds of people, hundreds), it took them much more time than 20 minutes. The majority of the people (out of those hundreds) can't even finish it in one night (not because it's too much material, but because how overwhelming the material itself is). So you can stop right there, you're a liar and are making yourself look bad. Secondly, I posted that link 16 hours ago, you replied 15 hours ago. So It's physically impossible for you to read that much text, not only in twenty minutes, but in an hour (even though you claimed to finish it in twenty minutes outright - proving you haven't read it). Better yet, reading that much text in only twenty minutes and being able comprehend what you just read. Yeah right, not the slightest chance whatsoever.

So you're not only arrogant, you're a liar too. If you actually read it, like I simply asked before, your opinion would differ from the one you are giving me right now. It would be night and day. Since you have no desire to read it, but still feel the need to refute against it. I really don't know what to tell you man. All I know is, there is no way you have read that entire piece of writing in twenty minutes. You may be able to skim through it in 20 minutes (basically ignoring everything that is important, and merely looking at words but not comprehending them), but to actually read every word, every sentence, every paragraph and understand what you read; is going to take more than a few hours if you want to read it right through, and in most cases from what I have seen is going to take you a day (taking breaks in-between reading) because of how overwhelming it becomes (again this is based on my experience reading it, and hundreds of others that I know also read it from another forum). With that said, I really doubt a close minded individual like yourself could write something like that, better yet there is no way you could; especially one that's better. This is because if you actually took the time to read it, you would realize there is no way that it is simply some creative writing piece someone strung together.

With that all said, I'm done. I'm not going to continue to argue with someone who never read it, but yet claims to have read it. thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif
Edited by BiG StroOnZ - 10/18/12 at 2:02pm
post #70 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenArchon View Post

You got the calculations wrong, Observed Time * (1 - (velocity^2 / c^2)) ^ (-0.5) = 80536.5 years * (1-(0.00005425)^2)^(-0.5) = 80536.49988 years
You can pretty much ignore relativity for the general purpose here.

My bad, forgot to square c, thanks for catching that.
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