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[The Atlantic Wire] Twitter Censors Users for the First Time - Page 3  

post #21 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7heMy7h View Post

Well said.  The only way to protect freedom of speech is to defend it without exception.  If we start limiting it based on what we think is decent and acceptable, it no longer really exists.

He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither. thumb.gif
post #22 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

Having distasteful views is one thing, but when people in these groups start releasing thousands of videos of beheadings, murders, etc is when they take their views too far and should be removed from site. By saying they are neo-nazis, they are saying they agree with killing these people. Free speech requires that you are stating an opinion, as soon as you start threatening harm to people, it is no longer free speech.
By your logic, Neo-nazi should be allowed to come onto OCN and post their garbage in off topic threads with no consequences. No one is being arrested for stating their beliefs and that's all freedom of speech really protects against. It is up to twitter if they want that stuff on their site, and if I was in their shoes I wouldn't want it on my site.
It's the same reason why moderation exists on forums. Freedom of speech is abused by people who really don't understand what it is, you can state whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you can go into a church and scream "worship satan" and expect everyone to be fine with it. You would probably be removed from the building, and the same thing is happening here.
I could make a website right now, and I would get to choose what viewpoints are allowed and this would not violate freedom of speech at all. Extreme believers like this can host their own website if they really want to pull the "freedom of speech" card. No one's freedom of speech is being violated by twitter choosing which posts are allowed and which aren't. I generally disagree with any form of censorship when it comes to 99.9% of things, but I find this move perfectly acceptable.

That is not my point in this. OCN and Twitter are private services where it is up to the discretion of the owns to choose how their service is used. As such you have to agree to the terms of service for those sites before posting things and if you don't agree then you can't use those services. I'm not going to slight Twitter in any way for their actions on this because as a private entity, they have the right to dictate how it is used. Does that mean I am fine with people posting videos of beheadings or murders under the guise of it being free speech? No, those are illegal and should be dealt with as such. On the matter of people saying they are Neo-Nazis, they could also be following the original message of the National Socialist German Workers Party and be anti-big business, anti-bourgeois and pro-big government. Does that mean that all people who are Neo-Nazi believers think that killing and violence is okay? No, there are people who just want to be separate from other races and I have no issue with them being separatists but I don't like the people who want to kill and promote violence.

This is starting to veer from the topic into a political discussion and I agreed to the TOS for OCN so let's agree to disagree on where we draw the line on this. Truce? thumb.gif
post #23 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by xXSebaSXx View Post

To be honest; I haven't even bothered doing any reading on the subject (hell; I don't even have a twitter account)... But if this was something that Twitter did at the behest of the German government; who is to say that the same government decides to ask Twitter to ban accounts of members of the opposing party, or accounts of activists that voice their disagreements with the government via Twitter? The thing is that today; it was a "righteous" ban, but we all know that the moment we give up any sort of liberty to the government; we're never going to get that back... And please tell me if you know of a government agency that, when given a yard, did not try to take the whole football field... If they think they can get away with it; they will try to ban stuff that doesn't need banning... You know it; I know it; they know it.

Actually that has happened in many different countries with many different services. There is always someone trying to silence someone else for having opposing views on things and governments will do this all the time. Twitter was just following the rules set in place by the German government and censored those posts in Germany but not to people in other countries. It is their service to control as they think is right but it doesn't mean you have to like it or use it.
post #24 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lievyon View Post

I have noticed a disturbing trend lately that people are very misinformed about how free speech works, particularly in the U.S. Somehow people got the idea that free speech means you can say whatever you want without having to worry about any consequences for what you say. That is not correct. The first amendment grants you free speech without repercussions from the GOVERNMENT only. However, the private sector and private citizens can react anyway they want as long as it doesn't violate federal law.
If a private media site doesn’t like what you’re saying they have every right to edit/remove that content. If you company doesn’t like what you’re saying on your Facebook page they have every right to fire you. Or, like the owner of Chic fil A’s, if you say you don’t like gay people, other citizens have the right to not patronize your restaurant. Just because the government can’t get involved in things like this doesn’t mean you can go around babbling garbage without repercussions.
In this case, I believe that Twitter made the right call. If you’re going to do business in another sovereign country, you should respect the laws of said county. While I’m a big fan of the government not suppressing speech, I can understand what a sensitive issue this is for Germany as I believe twitter does also.

Actually that is illegal in some states and there have been quite a few issues with that in hiring interviews where people are asked to allow access to their Facebook and the company has to hire them or face a civil rights lawsuit for the possibility of those interviewees not being hired for their sexual preference, political stance or any number of other things that people post about on Facebook.
post #25 of 70
Don't like it? Don't view it.

You sound like old hags whinging on Australian TV everytime a reality show comes out.

Censoring is just wrong. Your weak if thats your solution to it, plain weak.

I can easily see this going the way of China.
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post #26 of 70
I do not approve.

Germany tends to be sensitive about this kind of stuff though, I'd imagine there was government interaction on some level.

To be clear; I do not approve of a government telling a private company how to run it's business. There are clearly exceptions to this, but if this is speech and not causing the lost of life or limb, I do not feel a government should be doing this kind of thing.

Now, if Twitter decided wholly by themselves to censor it, that's different, and it is their service, a private service, that is allowed full control over it's own image.
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post #27 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSocialHermit View Post

That is not my point in this. OCN and Twitter are private services where it is up to the discretion of the owns to choose how their service is used. As such you have to agree to the terms of service for those sites before posting things and if you don't agree then you can't use those services. I'm not going to slight Twitter in any way for their actions on this because as a private entity, they have the right to dictate how it is used. Does that mean I am fine with people posting videos of beheadings or murders under the guise of it being free speech? No, those are illegal and should be dealt with as such. On the matter of people saying they are Neo-Nazis, they could also be following the original message of the National Socialist German Workers Party and be anti-big business, anti-bourgeois and pro-big government. Does that mean that all people who are Neo-Nazi believers think that killing and violence is okay? No, there are people who just want to be separate from other races and I have no issue with them being separatists but I don't like the people who want to kill and promote violence.
This is starting to veer from the topic into a political discussion and I agreed to the TOS for OCN so let's agree to disagree on where we draw the line on this. Truce? thumb.gif

Never had any hard feelings against you, just a friendly debate. thumb.gif

I will say that any form of government censorship is bad in my eyes. The people should be able to choose what they want to be able to see, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone in the process. If I had my way, all TV channels could show anything they wanted as long as the content wasn't illegal for other reasons. Censoring people from reality also makes people weak in my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mootsfox View Post

To be clear; I do not approve of a government telling a private company how to run it's business. There are clearly exceptions to this, but if this is speech and not causing the lost of life or limb, I do not feel a government should be doing this kind of thing.
Now, if Twitter decided wholly by themselves to censor it, that's different, and it is their service, a private service, that is allowed full control over it's own image.

100% agree.
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post #28 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis158 View Post

He who sacrifices liberty for security deserves neither. thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse^_^ View Post

Don't like it? Don't view it.
You sound like old hags whinging on Australian TV everytime a reality show comes out.
Censoring is just wrong. Your weak if thats your solution to it, plain weak.
I can easily see this going the way of China.

This and That. The second one mostly the first line.
It's amazing how the little left arrow can take you away from things you don't like.
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post #29 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7heMy7h View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSocialHermit View Post


The murders and assaults should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law but the moment you begin censoring speech, the next subject that is deemed distasteful will be on the block and it could be your religion, political views, sexual preference or any number of things.

Well said.  The only way to protect freedom of speech is to defend it without exception.  If we start limiting it based on what we think is decent and acceptable, it no longer really exists.

 

Agreed with both of you.

 

I don't necessarily agree with this censorship since they deserve the same freedom of speech that everyone else has

post #30 of 70
Dang freedom and the equalities guaranteed within it. mad.gif
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