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[Various] AMD Piledriver FX-Series CPU Reviews (Vishera FX-8350, FX-8320, FX-6300, FX-4300) - Page 226  

post #2251 of 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCollins View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I know I'm not eric but:
It's a pretty easy argument to counter tbh. Everyone knows that more performance comes with a premium.
The extreme editions aren't meant to offer good value. If you want top of the line performance and also somewhat nice value go with a 3930K (iirc this is what eric was going to do but couldn't find a 3930K).
Here's the thing, since you can't have the level of performance on the AMD side of things, the people who are looking to get the performance are forced to go intel. Since you just can not get the performance it's useless to argue price/perf. AMD just has nothing that can compete. rendering for example (Click to show)
The moment when AMD beats intels high end CPUs is the moment I go with AMD for my 24/7 build. Nothing more to it.

AMD will never beat intel in cinebench, or F@H or a couple of dozen or so applications that are built with Intel librarys and compilers. It isn't going to happen.The game is rigged in Favor of intel here, and that is not going to change, unless the US legal system decides to break intel for being a pack of underhanded dirt bags.

As for the performance of the 3970k versus the FX8whatever, I'll wait for linux benchmarks. I know these aren't as rigged.

Thuban did pretty damn well in Cinebench back in the day... about 10% faster than Bloomfields in multithreaded and something like 3% behind in single-threaded. Though I do agree that Bulldozer would fare much better if Cinebench used, for example, GCC. The fact that it refuses to look for supported instruction sets and instead just looks to see if the chip is Intel or not is pretty anti-competitive. I don't think the justice system really can get involved in this, since it's not their business how Intel's compiler works... devs should at least make an effort to not be reliant on it anymore.

Phoronix did some benchmarks in Linux and found the 8350 to be very competitive with the 3770k: http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=18051

Even in Linux though you see some particular programs that will perform much better on the worst Intel CPU while ANY AMD CPU, K10.5 or BD-based, will be left in the dust... dunno what's up with that.
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post #2252 of 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Even in Linux though you see some particular programs that will perform much better on the worst Intel CPU while ANY AMD CPU, K10.5 or BD-based, will be left in the dust... dunno what's up with that.

Possibly stuff that needs a lot of memory bandwidth, assuming equal RAM speeds Intel's IMC destroys AMDs.
    
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post #2253 of 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Even in Linux though you see some particular programs that will perform much better on the worst Intel CPU while ANY AMD CPU, K10.5 or BD-based, will be left in the dust... dunno what's up with that.

Possibly stuff that needs a lot of memory bandwidth, assuming equal RAM speeds Intel's IMC destroys AMDs.

Makes sense. There's no other way I can think of to explain how Sandy Bridge has a 95% IPC advantage over Piledriver in some of those scientific programs like Dolfyn.
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post #2254 of 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Even in Linux though you see some particular programs that will perform much better on the worst Intel CPU while ANY AMD CPU, K10.5 or BD-based, will be left in the dust... dunno what's up with that.

Possibly stuff that needs a lot of memory bandwidth, assuming equal RAM speeds Intel's IMC destroys AMDs.

Makes sense. There's no other way I can think of to explain how Sandy Bridge has a 95% IPC advantage over Piledriver in some of those scientific programs like Dolfyn.

I just checked and ICC is available for Linux according to Wiki, so that is possibly why..those specific applications might have been compiled using that.
    
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post #2255 of 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Even in Linux though you see some particular programs that will perform much better on the worst Intel CPU while ANY AMD CPU, K10.5 or BD-based, will be left in the dust... dunno what's up with that.

Possibly stuff that needs a lot of memory bandwidth, assuming equal RAM speeds Intel's IMC destroys AMDs.

Makes sense. There's no other way I can think of to explain how Sandy Bridge has a 95% IPC advantage over Piledriver in some of those scientific programs like Dolfyn.

I just checked and ICC is available for Linux according to Wiki, so that is possibly why..those specific applications might have been compiled using that.

I don't think ICC alone can explain such horrible performance. Cinebench for example uses ICC and it shows IB having a ~50% IPC advantage over PD. In Dolfyn a 4.6GHz FX-8350 doesn't even perform within 10% of a 2.5GHz Core i5-2400S.
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post #2256 of 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

Even in Linux though you see some particular programs that will perform much better on the worst Intel CPU while ANY AMD CPU, K10.5 or BD-based, will be left in the dust... dunno what's up with that.

Possibly stuff that needs a lot of memory bandwidth, assuming equal RAM speeds Intel's IMC destroys AMDs.

Makes sense. There's no other way I can think of to explain how Sandy Bridge has a 95% IPC advantage over Piledriver in some of those scientific programs like Dolfyn.

I just checked and ICC is available for Linux according to Wiki, so that is possibly why..those specific applications might have been compiled using that.

I don't think ICC alone can explain such horrible performance. Cinebench for example uses ICC and it shows IB having a ~50% IPC advantage over PD. In Dolfyn a 4.6GHz FX-8350 doesn't even perform within 10% of a 2.5GHz Core i5-2400S.

Possibly both. Especially when you consider the use of AVX, etc is much more common than in Windows desktop style stuff due to it being generally easier to recompile the code with optimizations for your chosen CPU.
    
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post #2257 of 2391
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Originally Posted by Usario View Post

The fact that it refuses to look for supported instruction sets and instead just looks to see if the chip is Intel or not is pretty anti-competitive. I don't think the justice system really can get involved in this, since it's not their business how Intel's compiler works... devs should at least make an effort to not be reliant on it anymore.
In my opinion one should not be really blaming the dev's, as when it comes to, for example, FORTRAN compilers then AMD as far as I understand it, is not really presenting one which would offer sufficient performance against Intel version. They will need to step up that part of their game in the future if they really intend to get that HSA stuff off the ground. Now with the new consortium behind the HSA initiative we will see if it yields an alternative Fortran compiler which is capable of taking advantage of the integrated GPU's in an intelligent manner while offering comparable performance to the Intel compiler in other areas. FORTRAN compiler is important as when it comes to the number crunching then thats the de factor standard and I imagine most benchmarks make use of it in one form or another.
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post #2258 of 2391
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Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Possibly stuff that needs a lot of memory bandwidth, assuming equal RAM speeds Intel's IMC destroys AMDs.

Oh for sure, they're so many starved it's unreal, that's why they show such an improvement by over-clocking the CPU-NB.

Look at this for an example

index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=811

index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=812

~15Gb/s read is 1.8Gb/s per core in heavy multi tasking situations for an 4 module FX chip, 3.6Gb/s per module for a 2 module FX chip

~11Gb/s write is 1.3Gb/s per core in heavy multi tasking situations for an 4 module FX chip, 2.6Gb/s per module for a 2 module FX chip

Now if you do the same for a 3750k, I will use the 3770k results but both the 3750k and 3770k have the same memory performance anyway.

~19Gb/s read is 4.7Gb/s per core in heavy multi tasking situations for a 4 core Ivy bridge chip.

~20Gb/s write is 5.0Gb/s per core in heavy multi tasking situations for a 4 core Ivy bridge chip.

The difference is crazy!!
Edited by almighty15 - 11/6/12 at 5:40am
post #2259 of 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by almighty15 View Post

Oh for sure, they're so many starved it's unreal, that's why they show such an improvement by over-clocking the CPU-NB.
Look at this for an example

~15Gb/s read is 1.8Gb/s per module in heavy multi tasking situations for an 8 module FX chip, 3.6Gb/s per module for a 4 module FX chip
~11Gb/s write is 1.3Gb/s per module in heavy multi tasking situations for an 8 module FX chip, 2.6Gb/s per module for a 4 module FX chip
Now if you do the same for a 3750k, I will use the 3770k results but both the 3750k and 3770k have the same memory performance anyway.
~19Gb/s read is 4.7Gb/s per core in heavy multi tasking situations for a 4 core Ivy bridge chip.
~20Gb/s write is 5.0Gb/s per core in heavy multi tasking situations for a 4 core Ivy bridge chip.
The difference is crazy!!


That's truly astonishing wha-smiley.png

EDIT : Wait don't you mean 8 core chip / 4 module ? 8 module doesn't exist, does it blinksmiley.gif ?
Edited by MoGTy - 11/6/12 at 5:17am
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post #2260 of 2391
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoGTy View Post

Wait don't you mean 8 core chip / 4 module ? 8 module doesn't exist, does it blinksmiley.gif ?

Crap, you lot know what I meen tongue.gif
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