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[OFFICIAL] FX-8320/FX-8350 Vishera Owners Club - Page 1701

post #17001 of 68054
If I were to write a book about thermaldynamics it would be probably be called "50 shades of ignorant" . That being said I think it's important to be respectful of people's viewpoints and opinions, no matter how wrong I am tongue.gif.
Before me lies a great opportunity to reveal my ignorance, ( oh goody!) so here goes:) . If the same amount of energy were being introduced into a sealed room it would make no difference how the machinery was being cooled , the ambient air would eventually get saturated over time to a point at which the room itself became the heatsink that ultimately determined how hot the air would get.

What makes it tricky, ( and validates Kyadkc's point ) is that because efficiency is effected by temps , the hotter the machine runs, the less efficient it becomes - requiring more energy to do the same task.
More energy=more heat = hotter room.

I always say that I have as much right to be wrong as anyone , and I feel it's my duty as an American to exercise that right lol
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post #17002 of 68054
so for example if ya cancelled out some of these changing variables (efficiency/temp) and kept it fixed, the other guys would be right

and if you didnt change voltages.....

whistle.gif
post #17003 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanotoolestuff View Post

Hello, I do not currently own one of these CPUs, but I am going to be getting an FX 8320 soon to upgrade my gaming rig.
The qualms are not about the CPU, but about motherboards.

What is the ASRock 990FX Extreme 3 like? I am going for a budget of ~$120-140 AUD, and I wish to be able to get at least 4.6GHz OCs.

Any suggestions?

Rig I built for my bud with the ASrock3 is happily doing 4.6 with minimal vdroop for a cheaper board and :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231638
@ 9-11-11-31-44-2T

It's no Chvz, but it's a great budget board imo.

Cons : Doesn't handle 4 dimms well, mobo chipset gets hot you'll want a good fan on side of case.

@ Kyad
Do you know what the ud3 rev3 and gandalf have in common?
Edited by Vencenzo - 6/18/13 at 5:44am
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post #17004 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devildog83 View Post

Enjoying reading this convo. but have a couple of questions.

1) Isn't air a gas and not a liquid.
2) If the source of the heat never reaches the same temps then how can it put out the same amount of heat, I. E. if you are cooling the CPU directly with a waterblock and keeping it from creating as much heat an air cooler then how does it affect the ambient temp as much.

Let's say I am having a BBQ with charcoal, if I let it burn normally it will produce a lot of heat, but if I were to spray the coals with water and keep them from getting too hot I can control the amount heat the put off. The source is not producing as much heat hence it has less affect on the air around it. I could be wrong but I thought I would ask so I can learn.

To answer your questions,
1) Air is considered a fluid from a mathematical standpoint. Gasses are also considered "fluids" when dealing with problems like these

2)The heat is still there. Consider the cpu to basically be a converter, converting electrical energy into heat (watts). That heat is always being produced and the idea is that it will constantly be transferred via conduction with a good mating surface to something - generally a solid piece of copper in either an a water block or air heat sink. The heat that the cpu was "converting" will be transferred to that copper block which has the working "fluid" (air, water) circulating through it.

Here's a quick and dirty problem I found: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
KNOWN: Width and maximum allowable temperature of an electronic chip. Thermal contact
resistance between chip and heat sink. Dimensions and thermal conductivity of heat sink.
Temperature and convection coefficient associated with air flow through the heat sink.
FIND: (a) Maximum allowable chip power for heat sink with prescribed number of fins, fin
thickness, and fin pitch, and (b) Effect of fin thickness/number and convection coefficient on
performance.
SCHEMATIC:
ASSUMPTIONS: (1) Steady-state, (2) One-dimensional heat transfer, (3) Isothermal chip, (4)
Negligible heat transfer from top surface of chip, (5) Negligible temperature rise for air flow, (6)
Uniform convection coefficient associated with air flow through channels and over outer surfaces of heat sink, (7) Negligible radiation.
ANALYSIS: (a) From the thermal circuit,
So making the assumption of "steady state" basically takes time out, so this problem is rather easy compared to what everyone is wondering. But still might give some an idea.

Edit again:
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You say that... But you just said everyone who owns a UD3 has a bad motherboard.

I will not sit back and do nothing as people make ignorant posts claiming that all things of the type suck because theirs does. Either make it clear that you are the one having problems, or don't make a claim.

Your entire statement was just as bad as someone who gets a single leaky H80 and says Corsair as a company sucks. You just said that about the entire UD3 line, even though there are three different UD3 boards for the 900 chipsets, and you don't even have the best one.
Wow. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. You should, based on your "experience" know so much better than to make a statement like that.

All I have to say is "LN2" and your statement goes completely out the window. The efficiency of a CPU under that kind of cooling is insane, and very easily noticed. Why, exactly, do you think they keep servers in 60F (at full load) rooms? They could just as easily function as high as 100F with everything going full tilt, and the company could save a lot of money paying for less A/C, but they do it anyway.

Efficiency. That's why.

Or, heck, lets go with an example that people in this thread would know best... AMD CPUs will require less voltage and power to function at a given clock speed if they are below around 55C than if they are at, say, 62C. The act of cooling it better allows the CPU to use less power, and thus generate less heat, and keep the CPU even cooler. This is a well known and proven fact, at minimum for the Ph II line.

No, he is right and you are wrong. The computer "produces" (transfers) the same amount of heat regardless of the cooling. The purpose of the cooling is to "transfer" said heat to the air. Look up Newton's laws if you don't believe it. Energy is neither created nor destroyed which means Energy in - Energy out + Energy Generated equals change of energy with respect to time. What does this mean? Means the heat is still there for better cooling solutions, but those are able to move the heat and transfer it to the ambient much quicker as opposed to an air cooled solution.

Consider a very high efficiency heat pump where even in -10 degree C weather, it STILL is able to heat the house without kicking on the backup heat. How is this possible? Because even in -10 degree C temperatures, there is STILL heat that can be pulled from the air.
Edited by bond32 - 6/18/13 at 6:20am
post #17005 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

If I were to write a book about thermaldynamics it would be probably be called "50 shades of ignorant" . That being said I think it's important to be respectful of people's viewpoints and opinions, no matter how wrong I am tongue.gif.
Before me lies a great opportunity to reveal my ignorance, ( oh goody!) so here goes:) . If the same amount of energy were being introduced into a sealed room it would make no difference how the machinery was being cooled , the ambient air would eventually get saturated over time to a point at which the room itself became the heatsink that ultimately determined how hot the air would get.

What makes it tricky, ( and validates Kyadkc's point ) is that because efficiency is effected by temps , the hotter the machine runs, the less efficient it becomes - requiring more energy to do the same task.
More energy=more heat = hotter room.

I always say that I have as much right to be wrong as anyone , and I feel it's my duty as an American to exercise that right lol

Close, actually. But it's not really "efficiency" as it is time. No one is making any mention of time here which is the key player. Involving time, often referred to as "transient analysis" complicates things. It is often the form of a nonlinear, first order, non homogeneous, ordinary differential equation. I'll see if I can find one.

Edit: Here:

Don't read too much into it as it is somewhat complicated but notice the right hand side states "row" (density) times "Cp" (specific heat) times partial T partial t where upper case T is temp and lower case t is time, so partial temp with respect to partial time.
Edited by bond32 - 6/18/13 at 6:04am
post #17006 of 68054
Wow and I thought this thread was boring when I was talking about Linux rolleyes.gif JK lol
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post #17007 of 68054
Makes your brain hurt - info overload, may need water cooling
post #17008 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vencenzo View Post

Rig I built for my bud with the ASrock3 is happily doing 4.6 with minimal vdroop for a cheaper board and :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231638
@ 9-11-11-31-44-2T

It's no Chvz, but it's a great budget board imo.

Cons : Doesn't handle 4 dimms well, mobo chipset gets hot you'll want a good fan on side of case.

@ Kyad
Do you know what the ud3 rev3 and gandalf have in common?

Would that be faster than 11-14-14-35 1T?

@ Bond: I thought I accounted for time ?" ambient air would eventually get saturated over time"
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post #17009 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkyPresident View Post

Wow and I thought this thread was boring when I was talking about Linux rolleyes.gif JK lol

Boring? its gone all technical or is that what ya meant smile.gif

I dont understand any of that crap redface.gif too old now and too poor to get a decent education when i was a wee nipper so it all goes over my head tongue.gif
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post #17010 of 68054
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Would that be faster than 11-14-14-35 1T?

@ Bond: I thought I accounted for time ?" ambient air would eventually get saturated over time"

Ah, didn't see that, sorry. Sort of true, but also remember heat always goes to the area of lower temperature. So if your cooling solution is very good, i.e. transferring the heat to the ambient much slower than an air cooled solution, then you may not even notice that heat as it is transferred as it has already traveled through the ambient to some other area of a lower temperature through the room.

The human body is kinda wonky when it comes to what you feel regarding temperatures. If some bio major wants to chime in feel free, but I believe what you actually feel also has to do with humidity. I won't bore you guys anymore with humidity stuff lol.
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